Thanksgiving: The rest of the story

[Lakhota]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

Wrong. The colonist tried socialism and when that failed they went with capitalism.....and the rest is history.

Capitalism? Is that what you call killing the Indians (who fed them) and then steeling their lands - and then shipping in slaves in chains from another continent to do the hard labor? Capitalism? Hmmm...

 

[DOTR]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

Wrong. The colonist tried socialism and when that failed they went with capitalism.....and the rest is history.

Capitalism? Is that what you call killing the Indians (who fed them) and then steeling their lands - and then shipping in slaves in chains from another continent to do the hard labor? Capitalism? Hmmm...

In March 1621 Massasoit,Wampanoag sachem, signed a treaty which gave 12000 acres of land to the English to establish their colony. That isnt theft. Its a real estate deal.
The Wampanog were driven by both greed for English goods and fear of fellow Indians. They allied themselves with the English because, just as they themselves had "killed Indians and stolen the land" they were selling from other tribes, they were being attacked by other Indians themselves. The Mi'kmaq Indians, who tremendously enjoyed "killing other Indians" and "stealing their land", were attacking them from the north after having wiped out the Penobscot and "stealing their land". The Pequot Indians were attacking from the west "killing the [Wampanoag] Indians and stealing their land".
And this after the Wampanoag had suffered population declines from an epidemic of leptospirois thus weakening them so that when the Narragansett Indian Tribe attacked them a few years prior lustily "killing indians and stealing their land" the Wampanoag Tribe were too weak to fight back and had to submit to pay tribute thereafter to the Narragansett Indians.
They were only too happy to trade away a portion of their remaining land in return for an alliance.
So put that in your "America bad savages good" pipe and smoke it.

 

[yiostheoy]

The Indians helped the Pilgrims, for which they gave thanks. That is true... but it's not the only thing that happened.

After a very bad start, the Pilgrims also helped themselves... by realizing that their form of government was destroying the colony. And they got rid of it, just in time.

We'll have the usual bevy of liberal socialists insisting that since what the Pilgrims did at first, didn't meet 100% of the dictionary definition of "socialism" (it only achieved 90% ), they don't want us to call it that.

But the fact is, what these liberals are pushing today, has never worked... including the first time it was tried on this continent in 1623. Then, as now, it caused only division, discontent, starvation, and death. Not until they got rid of it, did prosperity begin.

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http://www.post-journal.com/page/content.detail/id/545415.html?nav=5071

Thanksgiving: Deliverance From Socialism

November 21, 2009
By Daniel McLaughlin

In the fall of the year 1623, William Bradford and the pilgrims who resided in Plymouth Plantation sat down for a thanksgiving feast. It was a celebration of a plentiful harvest. It hadn't been so in the preceding couple of years.

They had arrived in the new world in 1620. After the death of John Carver, the first governor of the colony, in April of 1621, Mr. Bradford was chosen as the second governor. From the start of their journey from England, he had kept a diary of their activities. They had early on decided on communal living and agreed to work all together for a common store of provisions and share equally in its use. He wrote that this community was found to breed much confusion and discontent. It retarded employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. "For the young men that were most able and fit for labour and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to worke for other men's wives and children, with out any recompence." The strong and productive didn't get any more food or provisions than the unproductive, and that was thought injustice. The older and weaker thought it indignity and disrespect to them to have to do the same amount of work as the younger and stronger. He wrote, "for men's wives to be commanded to doe service for other men, as dresing their meate, washing their cloaths, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brooke it."

In other words, people produced less and were discontented when they were forced to work for the benefit of others, at the expense of their own well-being. Plymouth Colony had a first hand taste of the effects of socialism on a community. As Bradford described it, few crops were planted or harvested. For a couple of years, the people languished in misery, and many died.

In 1923, they decided to try something different to get a better crop and raise themselves up. The solution was to give each family its own plot of land, and to hold them responsible for their own welfare. The idea was that, if each family was allowed to prosper according to its own efforts, each person would have the incentive to work harder to plant and harvest more. Again in the words of Governor Bradford: "This had very good success; for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corne was planted than other ways would have been by any means the Governor or any other could use, and saved him a great deall of trouble, and gave far better content. The women now wente willingly into the field, and tooke their little-ones with them to set corne, which before would allege weakness, and inability; whom to have compelled would have been thought great tyranny and oppression."

William Bradford and the colonists had made a profound discovery. They had, in effect, conducted a controlled experiment in political organization. In everything other than property rights and personal responsibility, they continued as before. Under socialism, or communal living, or the Marxist philosophy of "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need," the community languished. There was little incentive to produce more than the average. Thus the average declined and starvation and deprivation resulted.

Under conditions of private property, where families trusted in their own abilities, and "every man to his own particular," the people began to prosper. Bradford wrote in his journal several decades later that from that time on, they never suffered from deprivation, but rather the community improved and flourished.

That experiment has been conducted many times over the course of centuries, and indeed the whole of human history. The results are always ultimately the same. Where people are free to enjoy the benefits of their own labors and property, there is progress and plenty. Where property is subject to arbitrary confiscation, there is no incentive to produce. There is no incentive to try to accumulate wealth against unforeseen hardships of the future, and there is dependence, degradation and, ultimately, slavery.

This Thanksgiving season is a good time for reflection. Americans are traveling down a road toward the first Plymouth, the collectivism that leads to misery. As for me, I think we should be turning back toward the second Plymouth, toward personal responsibility and the resulting prosperity. Then we can join Governor Bradford in Thanksgiving for deliverance from the catastrophe called socialism.

If the Wampanoag Algonquians could only have seen what was coming they would have instead organized war parties to drive the Puritans and Pilgrims back into the sea where they came from.

Between guns and smallpox the Native American as well as these were wiped out.

But hindsight is always 20-20.

 

[yiostheoy]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

Wrong. The colonist tried socialism and when that failed they went with capitalism.....and the rest is history.

Capitalism? Is that what you call killing the Indians (who fed them) and then steeling their lands - and then shipping in slaves in chains from another continent to do the hard labor? Capitalism? Hmmm...

It's called genocide today.

 

[Iceweasel]

The settlers shared their bounty with the natives after they got their act together. So all prospered!

Again that is the obvious lie, and you missed it again.

An obvious lie because some idiot on the net doesn't like the truth that rubs his religion the wrong way?

No, an obvious lie because someone knows the dates of historical events and you obviously don't.

The Racist Right can't have a non white non Christian do anything good and helpful to white Christians, so your MessiahRushie fabricated a way to attack Socialism and praise "biblical" Capitalism by claiming the Pilgrims were thanking God for the bounty of Capitalism.
Now in order for your Limbaugh lie to work you need time for Socialism to have failed harvests before the bountiful Capitalistic harvest. Thus in your OP the actual 1621 First Thanksgiving was moved in your revisionist history lie to 1623.

You puked all over yourself. Again.

Pilgrim Hall Museum - About the Pilgrims - The "First Thanksgiving" at Plymouth
The Pilgrims did not call this harvest festival a "Thanksgiving," although they did give thanks to God. To them, a Day of Thanksgiving was purely religious. The first recorded religious Day of Thanksgiving was held in 1623 in response to a providential rainfall.

Not a credible source, but you knew that already.

First Thanksgiving Meal - Thanksgiving - HISTORY.com

History.com is like About.com. Anyone can contribute. Your source is unreliable.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

Wrong. The colonist tried socialism and when that failed they went with capitalism.....and the rest is history.

Capitalism? Is that what you call killing the Indians (who fed them) and then steeling their lands - and then shipping in slaves in chains from another continent to do the hard labor? Capitalism? Hmmm...

Nah...that was taking out the trash,and a good business model.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

 

[Disir]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

 

[jon_berzerk]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

 

[Disir]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

I have. You should go back and learn the history. Some jack ass opines it is socialism and that is music to your ears. You investigate no further.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

I have. You should go back and learn the history.

obviously you have not

 

[Disir]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

I have. You should go back and learn the history.

obviously you have not

http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15899234/

No. It is obvious you have not.

 

[jon_berzerk]

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

I have. You should go back and learn the history.

obviously you have not

http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15899234/

No. It is obvious you have not.

so what --LOL

dosnt mean you read a damn

copy and paste

--LOL

 

[Disir]

I have the "diary".

then you should open it up and read it

I have. You should go back and learn the history.

obviously you have not

http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15899234/

No. It is obvious you have not.

so what --LOL

dosnt mean you read a damn

copy and paste

--LOL

So.............you got nothing. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

Another year has yet passed, and this bullshit is repeated...Saints be praised...

i heard that in some schools, the kids in grades 1-6 are being taught that the white male pilgrims were all racist white crackers and once they settled into plymouth mass in 1620/21, they started making black people pick cotton and hunt down/capture turkeys.

I bet the kids wonder where their beer is, just like the Pilgrims kid's had to drink..

if Maxine Waters or that dumbass Jackson from Texas were teachers, you can just see them teaching 13/14 year olds how "Dem White Cracker Cops" used to hunt down and whip and taze dem Black Pilgrims in dare cracker whitey "Pole Leece" cars every day! eeben on tanxgiving almighty god !!!!!

 

[DOTR]

If the Wampanoag Algonquians could only have seen what was coming they would have instead organized war parties to drive the Puritans and Pilgrims back into the sea where they came from.

Between guns and smallpox the Native American as well as these were wiped out.

From their past the Wampanoag knew their future...enslavement and genocide at the hands of stronger Indian tribes. The age old story of the Indian...constant warfare, slave raids and the danger of being exterminated by tribes in a stronger position...lives made " poor, nasty, brutish, and short". They made a the most pragmatic deal available to them. And in the process helped a great nation expand its influence and fulfill its mission of advancing " the Glory of God", "the Christian Faith" and the "Honour of our King and Country".
If only they had had a great leader like Donald Trump....

 

[DOTR]

At least the Indians faced a more advanced civilization entering to supersede them. Trumps wall is need to keep a less advanced group from superseding us.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why did we settle America?

"In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France, and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith, etc.
Having undertaken for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together in a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620."

It's called the Divine Right of Kings and provided legitimacy.
‘The absolute right to rule’ – The Divine Right of Kings

Give your hatred for America a rest on Thanksgiving. Teach your kids better...if you arent some barren wombed feminist harridan...which I suspect you are.

What hatred? I'm a descendant of William Bradford you fucking nitwit.

Too bad you didn't inherit his intelligence.

Being someone's distant descendant doesn't automatically convey understanding of them in your DNA, Brain Trust.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Every year you tell the exact same lies.

go read the diary

you find out it is not a lie

I have the "diary".

No, you don't, and thanks for establishing yourself as a liar. You may have a reprinted copy of his journal, but the original manuscript is in the library of the State House in Boston.

http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/pdf/Bradford_Journal_Intro_Of_Plymouth_Plantation.pdf

 

[Unkotare]

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

Not that simple.

You see our starting point, right?

Apparently, it's you trying to simplify something that is not.

.