Thanksgiving: The rest of the story

[DOTR]

Is that twatese for "I googled it and it isnt there"?

 

[jon_berzerk]

It's remarkable that, no matter where or when socialism is tried in large groups, it almost always fails.

because it sucks

 

[jon_berzerk]

obviously you have not

http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15899234/

No. It is obvious you have not.

so what --LOL

dosnt mean you read a damn

copy and paste

--LOL

So.............you got nothing. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

actually that is not the case

i just find you boring

I'm ok with that as I find you to be an uneducated hilljack.

understandable since you are a know nothing

 

[Disir]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/15899234/

No. It is obvious you have not.

so what --LOL

dosnt mean you read a damn

copy and paste

--LOL

So.............you got nothing. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

actually that is not the case

i just find you boring

I'm ok with that as I find you to be an uneducated hilljack.

understandable since you are a know nothing

That the best you can deliver?

All evidence points to this not being "socialism" but capitalism. Tell me moar about what you don't know.

 

[DOTR]

It's remarkable that, no matter where or when socialism is tried in large groups, it almost always fails.

Almost?

 

[Moonglow]

At least the Indians faced a more advanced civilization entering to supersede them. Trumps wall is need to keep a less advanced group from superseding us.

Fucking and farting always wins out...

 

[Moonglow]

It's remarkable that, no matter where or when socialism is tried in large groups, it almost always fails.

Did you miss the part in the movie where capitalism failed?

 

[Unkotare]

They were fleeing political persecution, the way the Pilgrims ran the govt. after the execution of the king, they were tyrants...

They weren't fleeing anything.

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

What the Pilgrims understood - and you are either ignoring or ignorant of - is that in 1621 the truce between Spain and Holland over a religious war would come to an end, and radical Protestants like the Pilgrims would have a big, fat target painted on their asses in any hot war and Inquisition to follow. Their haven was becoming unsafe regardless of their kids' acclimation. Holland was never intended as more than a temporary stay. There were few jobs, the locals didn't like them much, and their security was dubious and temporary.

Not simple.

 

[Yarddog]

Another year has yet passed, and this bullshit is repeated...Saints be praised...

The only ingredient missing is the one jack ass that insists the Pilgrims came straight to this land to escape religious persecution.

It isn't Thanksgiving until someone say that.

They stopped off at Easter Island first, then they came here, directly from there, to celebrate Thanksgiving and escape religious persecution. Where you been?

 

[Disir]

They weren't fleeing anything.

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

What the Pilgrims understood - and you are either ignoring or ignorant of - is that in 1621 the truce between Spain and Holland over a religious war would come to an end, and radical Protestants like the Pilgrims would have a big, fat target painted on their asses in any hot war and Inquisition to follow. Their haven was becoming unsafe regardless of their kids' acclimation. Holland was never intended as more than a temporary stay. There were few jobs, the locals didn't like them much, and their security was dubious and temporary.

Not simple.

I don't think it was the determining factor because Bradford left his son there and the majority of the congregation opted to not leave. What the Separatists understood is that they were subjected to manual labor in Leiden. It was precisely that hard labor that kept people from moving to Leiden from England to begin with. It was unfettered capitalism meaning the majority found work in the textile industry which relied on speed and agility. The older one became the less speed they had in that kind of work and there were no opportunities one could "retire" from. They worked excruciatingly long hours. Or you worked in the University. Most did not work in the University.

And when they petitioned to leave Leiden the request was granted but the King did not and would not recognize their religion.

And when they left they did so with "Strangers". They sure as hell weren't playing into their religion which made life even more difficult because they absolutely could not be controlled via religion after arrival.

 

[Unkotare]

yet needed a charter to leave, so they must have been leaving for some reason...

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

What the Pilgrims understood - and you are either ignoring or ignorant of - is that in 1621 the truce between Spain and Holland over a religious war would come to an end, and radical Protestants like the Pilgrims would have a big, fat target painted on their asses in any hot war and Inquisition to follow. Their haven was becoming unsafe regardless of their kids' acclimation. Holland was never intended as more than a temporary stay. There were few jobs, the locals didn't like them much, and their security was dubious and temporary.

Not simple.

I don't think it was the determining factor ....

= you never even heard of the Thirty Years War.

 

[Disir]

They spent a decade in Holland before leaving. They left for opportunity. It was about cash.

Not that simple either way.

It's pretty simple once people admit the Pilgrims in Holland were faced with the same issues immigrants face anywhere. Hanging on to the "old ways" while the children acclimate quickly to the new area. And profit.

What the Pilgrims understood - and you are either ignoring or ignorant of - is that in 1621 the truce between Spain and Holland over a religious war would come to an end, and radical Protestants like the Pilgrims would have a big, fat target painted on their asses in any hot war and Inquisition to follow. Their haven was becoming unsafe regardless of their kids' acclimation. Holland was never intended as more than a temporary stay. There were few jobs, the locals didn't like them much, and their security was dubious and temporary.

Not simple.

I don't think it was the determining factor ....

= you never even heard of the Thirty Years War.

I have.

I simply don't think it was the determining factor in them leaving Leiden. Cash was the primary motivation and the children acclimating to the culture was an issue.