Tesla financial disaster!!!

[Old Rocks]

Oh.......and the Model 3, expected soon, will be losing $$ also............

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4075798-tesla-will-likely-lose-money-model-3

And the Prius, a solid success story, lost money for the first couple of years. Tesla is in the investment stage, and doing some very great things in that stage.

 

[skookerasbil]

The Prius is a marginally successful business story.......but only compared to other EV's in the market. It is still only a sliver of the overall car market. Why? Because it still holds..........and has for 75 years........that Americans like larger cars. And then there are the SUV's. Essentially, market analysts still feel that the Prius is largely a niche car targeted by buyers who embrace everything green. Most people don't care though, thus, the overall lack of mass interest.

Indeed Tesla is in the investment stage.......but a lot of hedging going on. Short interest on Tesla — a measure of bets that share prices will drop — sits close to its lowest in more than 2 1/2 years, relative to shares outstanding, according to data compiled the IHS. If a market collapse happens............oooooooops for Tesla. Also, many in the automotive business have a lot of concerns about the Tesla business model. Companies like Apple do the same, but they have products that many, many people want, thus, a good hedge bet. Not so for overall interest in the Tesla 3......might display a lot of interest, but the key factor is, how much does it cut into the established conventional market? THAT will tell the tale........will somebody spend 40K for a fad or stick with spending 30K for a well equipped Altima or Camry?

 

[Old Rocks]

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/stock-chart

LOL I think that the 3 will come very well equipped.

 

[saveliberty]

Oh.......and the Model 3, expected soon, will be losing $$ also............

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4075798-tesla-will-likely-lose-money-model-3

And the Prius, a solid success story, lost money for the first couple of years. Tesla is in the investment stage, and doing some very great things in that stage.

Burning through $8,000 a minute is unsustainable.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well now, we shall see. Tesla has made a big bet on several fronts. Many savvy investors seem to think that he will succeed on enough of them to pay off their investments.

 

[saveliberty]

Well now, we shall see. Tesla has made a big bet on several fronts. Many savvy investors seem to think that he will succeed on enough of them to pay off their investments.

Stock prices are relevant, when they go bankrupt they get zero. Bondholders, which is where they get the cash will not buy very long at the rate they burn through cash.

 

[Old Rocks]

You know, I don't think you have any part in any of that. Neither do I. So your analysis is no better than mine. The difference is that I would like to see an American company tht is making almost all their products in America succeed. Just why do you not feel the same?

 

[saveliberty]

You know, I don't think you have any part in any of that. Neither do I. So your analysis is no better than mine. The difference is that I would like to see an American company tht is making almost all their products in America succeed. Just why do you not feel the same?

Because drones capable of moving people around makes far more sense. No need of infrastructure costs in highways for example.

 

[Old Rocks]

Future tech, maybe. The EV is here and doing well right now. But if you want that, here is the beggining.

Lilium

 

[Dekster]

Emergent Tech
Tesla share crash amid Republican bid to kill off electric car tax break
Didn't help that the automaker's financial results also sucked
By Kieren McCarthy in San Francisco 2 Nov 2017 at 18:47


Tesla's share price took a dive Thursday morning as Republicans in Congress revealed they were planning to kill off a US federal tax credit for electric vehicles.

The proposed House tax bill calls for an immediate repeal of the $7,500-per-vehicle credit: something that would have an immediate knock-on impact for Tesla given that it only produces electric cars.

Tesla share crash amid Republican bid to kill off electric car tax break


Been saying for years.........EV's are ghey. Nobody wants these cars.

But even I am surprised..........671 million in losses this past quarter!!!




fAiL

The tax credit for Tesla was already set to expire. Had nothing to do with current tax reform deal. It passed the production level that automatically triggered the end of the credit.

 

[elektra]

And the Prius, a solid success story, lost money for the first couple of years. Tesla is in the investment stage, and doing some very great things in that stage.

The Prius is not an electric car you idiot, it is a hybrid.

Tesla is in the manufacturing stage! You have stated this in other posts! Just when I think you have proven yourself dumb, you come up with this! Proving that you are dumber than dumb.

 

[HenryBHough]

Hey, lot of people used to love Solyndra.......

 

[Billy_Bob]

Tesla finishes installing mega-battery in Australia

Tesla has finished installing the world's biggest lithium-ion battery and will switch it on over the coming days.

The 100-megawatt battery in South Australia is designed to provide security to the state's electricity grid.

It will store enough energy to power 30,000 homes for about an hour.

Tesla's chief executive Elon Musk had said the battery would be free if it was not installed within 100 days of signing a contract for the project.

It appears the company will meet the 1 December deadline for installation of the battery array, which will be connected to a wind farm run by French renewable energy company Neoen.

Tesla readies Australian mega-battery

Another feather in Musk's cap.

I'll be impressed in about a year, if it doesn't have a massive L-ion failure and cascade explosion... Like those that have plagued L-ion batteries for decades..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Is there any doubt that more EVs on the road would be good for the economy, the consumer, and the environment?

I get why the car dealers are pissed. Tesla doesn't do dealerships. But jeez, this kind of hostility towards new technology is insane.

And spare me the "Let the market decide". That works great if you are already in the market. Tesla has started from scratch and in less than 10 years has become a well known commodity. The technology is cutting edge. The cars are safer than almost any car on the road. The fuel is produced right here in the USA.

Cut the government subsidies and see how well these things sell... I think for most folks; that's the point. If they are so fucking great; they would be able to stand on their own two feet.

Sheesh. Cut the government subsidies for the oil and coal companies. Let them stand on their own two feet. As far as the government subsidies are concerned, they will be cut, and Tesla will do still do great. There is no other nation in the world that would think that government subsidies for a start up that is dominating the world market on EV's would be a bad thing. In Japan or Europe, Tesla would be getting far more subsidies.

Tesla,as part of Elon Musk's grand design to remake the energy market, is already a success. Even should Tesla fail, other companies will continue to manufacture EV's, and they will continue to dominate the ICE's in performance. As the new and far cheaper batteries come online, they will dominate them in price for the quality of unit. And, as shown in Musk's introduction of the semi and roadster, they can dominate the total spectrum of modern transportation. In a decade, they will even begin to compete in commercial air commerce. As his and others grid scale storage batteries come online, solar and wind will become the only way for new electrical generation simply on the basis of cost. Germany has already shown us what can be done with electrical coops for small businesses.

No, you Luddites cannot turn back the clock now. The cost of electricity from wind and solar is far cheaper now than that from fossil fuels. As the batteries come online, it will be cheaper yet. Should Musk fail financially, he has already succeeded in changing the direction of the world community concerning energy.

We will see... As I posted earlier, if the battery banks last a year without a cascade failure and explosions he MIGHT make a difference.

And how much toxic waste was created in making those batteries? How much energy used?

30,000 homes for one hour..... LOL wind storms and calm last a whole lot longer than one hour..

 

[polarbear]

Is there any doubt that more EVs on the road would be good for the economy, the consumer, and the environment?

I get why the car dealers are pissed. Tesla doesn't do dealerships. But jeez, this kind of hostility towards new technology is insane.

And spare me the "Let the market decide". That works great if you are already in the market. Tesla has started from scratch and in less than 10 years has become a well known commodity. The technology is cutting edge. The cars are safer than almost any car on the road. The fuel is produced right here in the USA.

Cut the government subsidies and see how well these things sell... I think for most folks; that's the point. If they are so fucking great; they would be able to stand on their own two feet.

Sheesh. Cut the government subsidies for the oil and coal companies. Let them stand on their own two feet. As far as the government subsidies are concerned, they will be cut, and Tesla will do still do great. There is no other nation in the world that would think that government subsidies for a start up that is dominating the world market on EV's would be a bad thing. In Japan or Europe, Tesla would be getting far more subsidies.

Tesla,as part of Elon Musk's grand design to remake the energy market, is already a success. Even should Tesla fail, other companies will continue to manufacture EV's, and they will continue to dominate the ICE's in performance. As the new and far cheaper batteries come online, they will dominate them in price for the quality of unit. And, as shown in Musk's introduction of the semi and roadster, they can dominate the total spectrum of modern transportation. In a decade, they will even begin to compete in commercial air commerce. As his and others grid scale storage batteries come online, solar and wind will become the only way for new electrical generation simply on the basis of cost. Germany has already shown us what can be done with electrical coops for small businesses.

No, you Luddites cannot turn back the clock now. The cost of electricity from wind and solar is far cheaper now than that from fossil fuels. As the batteries come online, it will be cheaper yet. Should Musk fail financially, he has already succeeded in changing the direction of the world community concerning energy.

We will see... As I posted earlier, if the battery banks last a year without a cascade failure and explosions he MIGHT make a difference.

And how much toxic waste was created in making those batteries? How much energy used?

30,000 homes for one hour..... LOL wind storms and calm last a whole lot longer than one hour..

You won`t have to wait that long. 30 000 homes for about 1 hour that is ridiculous and a lie. It assumes that these 30 000 houses don`t use an AC + a fridge and won`t trip the "Mega" battery breaker if they use a microwave oven or make a cup of coffee..
A cheap diesel genset on a utility trailer would outperform this ridiculous setup any time

 

[Billy_Bob]

Is there any doubt that more EVs on the road would be good for the economy, the consumer, and the environment?

I get why the car dealers are pissed. Tesla doesn't do dealerships. But jeez, this kind of hostility towards new technology is insane.

And spare me the "Let the market decide". That works great if you are already in the market. Tesla has started from scratch and in less than 10 years has become a well known commodity. The technology is cutting edge. The cars are safer than almost any car on the road. The fuel is produced right here in the USA.

Cut the government subsidies and see how well these things sell... I think for most folks; that's the point. If they are so fucking great; they would be able to stand on their own two feet.

Sheesh. Cut the government subsidies for the oil and coal companies. Let them stand on their own two feet. As far as the government subsidies are concerned, they will be cut, and Tesla will do still do great. There is no other nation in the world that would think that government subsidies for a start up that is dominating the world market on EV's would be a bad thing. In Japan or Europe, Tesla would be getting far more subsidies.

Tesla,as part of Elon Musk's grand design to remake the energy market, is already a success. Even should Tesla fail, other companies will continue to manufacture EV's, and they will continue to dominate the ICE's in performance. As the new and far cheaper batteries come online, they will dominate them in price for the quality of unit. And, as shown in Musk's introduction of the semi and roadster, they can dominate the total spectrum of modern transportation. In a decade, they will even begin to compete in commercial air commerce. As his and others grid scale storage batteries come online, solar and wind will become the only way for new electrical generation simply on the basis of cost. Germany has already shown us what can be done with electrical coops for small businesses.

No, you Luddites cannot turn back the clock now. The cost of electricity from wind and solar is far cheaper now than that from fossil fuels. As the batteries come online, it will be cheaper yet. Should Musk fail financially, he has already succeeded in changing the direction of the world community concerning energy.

We will see... As I posted earlier, if the battery banks last a year without a cascade failure and explosions he MIGHT make a difference.

And how much toxic waste was created in making those batteries? How much energy used?

30,000 homes for one hour..... LOL wind storms and calm last a whole lot longer than one hour..

You won`t have to wait that long. 30 000 homes for about 1 hour that is ridiculous and a lie. It assumes that these 30 000 houses don`t use an AC + a fridge and won`t trip the "Mega" battery breaker if they use a microwave oven or make a cup of coffee..
A cheap diesel genset on a utility trailer would outperform this ridiculous setup any time

And depending on fuel tank size can last days to months.. vs the limited length of the battery. I set up a jail with UPS systems for critical systems and they would be discharged in about 60 min without a gen-set.

 

[polarbear]

Is there any doubt that more EVs on the road would be good for the economy, the consumer, and the environment?

I get why the car dealers are pissed. Tesla doesn't do dealerships. But jeez, this kind of hostility towards new technology is insane.

And spare me the "Let the market decide". That works great if you are already in the market. Tesla has started from scratch and in less than 10 years has become a well known commodity. The technology is cutting edge. The cars are safer than almost any car on the road. The fuel is produced right here in the USA.

Cut the government subsidies and see how well these things sell... I think for most folks; that's the point. If they are so fucking great; they would be able to stand on their own two feet.

Sheesh. Cut the government subsidies for the oil and coal companies. Let them stand on their own two feet. As far as the government subsidies are concerned, they will be cut, and Tesla will do still do great. There is no other nation in the world that would think that government subsidies for a start up that is dominating the world market on EV's would be a bad thing. In Japan or Europe, Tesla would be getting far more subsidies.

Tesla,as part of Elon Musk's grand design to remake the energy market, is already a success. Even should Tesla fail, other companies will continue to manufacture EV's, and they will continue to dominate the ICE's in performance. As the new and far cheaper batteries come online, they will dominate them in price for the quality of unit. And, as shown in Musk's introduction of the semi and roadster, they can dominate the total spectrum of modern transportation. In a decade, they will even begin to compete in commercial air commerce. As his and others grid scale storage batteries come online, solar and wind will become the only way for new electrical generation simply on the basis of cost. Germany has already shown us what can be done with electrical coops for small businesses.

No, you Luddites cannot turn back the clock now. The cost of electricity from wind and solar is far cheaper now than that from fossil fuels. As the batteries come online, it will be cheaper yet. Should Musk fail financially, he has already succeeded in changing the direction of the world community concerning energy.

We will see... As I posted earlier, if the battery banks last a year without a cascade failure and explosions he MIGHT make a difference.

And how much toxic waste was created in making those batteries? How much energy used?

30,000 homes for one hour..... LOL wind storms and calm last a whole lot longer than one hour..

You won`t have to wait that long. 30 000 homes for about 1 hour that is ridiculous and a lie. It assumes that these 30 000 houses don`t use an AC + a fridge and won`t trip the "Mega" battery breaker if they use a microwave oven or make a cup of coffee..
A cheap diesel genset on a utility trailer would outperform this ridiculous setup any time

And depending on fuel tank size can last days to months.. vs the limited length of the battery. I set up a jail with UPS systems for critical systems and they would be discharged in about 60 min without a gen-set.

Yes that is exactly the problem with a battery system. It is only good for a very short time, just enough to bridge the gap till you can spin up an emergency generator. The systems in Thule and Alert use a 3 phase motor which keeps a large mass flywheel spinning which is on the same driveshaft as the DC motor that a Gym size room full of Li batteries will run if the main power fails. But while on standby that DC motor acts as the generator which keeps the batteries charged. These batteries need constant attention and maintenance personnel winds up going in there every week with a forklift load of replacement batteries. If Tesla had batteries that would eliminate this problem the Military would be the first to use it. The thing is that it is a lot easier to swindle everywhere else and get away with it, but its not so easy to swindle the Military. They do rigorous tests using their own engineers who don`t go by what somebody like Tesla claims on their web page ads and news paper articles. And they sure as hell don`t go by what OldRocks has to say about Tesla.

 

[Old Rocks]

Concerns over energy security are spurring branches of the military to get more electricity from renewable sources, inching the Pentagon toward governmentwide climate goals.

But environmental concerns are not a key driver for the Defense Department, the nation’s largest consumer of energy. Instead, military officials say that safer sources of power are needed to enhance national security. That’s a bigger motivation than reducing emissions.

“Our tag line is expeditionary energy. We don’t do green,” said Col. Brian Magnuson, the director of the expeditionary energy office in the Marine Corps. “There’s a perception that the initiatives have to do with something other than extending our combat effectiveness.
...............................
Since Magnuson’s office was created in 2009, renewable energy systems at the individual or unit level have saved lives by cutting down on refueling trips in battlefields, he said. Two outposts have gotten down to zero fuel use, he said. Technologies developed for Marines include on-the-go solar panels and backpacks that generate electricity.

Energy Security Drives U.S. Military to Renewables

Certainly there are areas like Thule where solar and batteries would not be effective, but at present, I don't believe we have that much military in combat roles in the Arctic. Last I heard, Canada is still a friendly nation.

 

[Old Rocks]

Military’s Shift Toward Renewable Energy
– AUGUST 12, 2015
By HDIAC Staff

To achieve military operational success, the Department of Defense (DoD) relies on one mission-essential resource: energy. The DoD is the largest government consumer of energy in the United States, with petroleum-based liquid fuels composing approximately two-thirds of the DoD’s consumption.

The DoD has requisitioned the deployment of 3 gigawatts (GW) of renewable energy to power military facilities by 2025. This meets a larger DoD mandate, Title 10 USC § 2911, which directs at least 25 percent of any DoD facility energy consumption come from renewable energy sources. Implementing alternatives has evolved from increasing energy distribution costs, foreign oil dependency, the threat of energy supply disruptions and the need for more secure and clean energy generation and distribution.


Aerial view of the 2 MW photovoltaic system at U.S. Army Fort Carson. (Photo courtesy of the U.S. Army)

Army Initiatives

The Army, the most populous branch of the military, consumes less energy than the Navy or Air Force because of the Army’s reliance on the Air Force and the Military Sealift Command for transportation. The Army’s energy consumption is concentrated in its installations, which consume an average of 21 million barrels of petroleum per year. The DoD’s shift toward energy security has encouraged Army energy initiatives, including the Army Energy Security Implementation Strategy, which requires at least five installations meet “net-zero” energy goals by 2020 and deploy 1 GW of renewable energy on their installations by 2025.
Military’s Shift Toward Renewable Energy

Looks like the military likes renewables.

 

[Old Rocks]

U.S. military marches forward on green energy, despite Trump

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump and his top advisors have often scoffed at government support of green energy. His chief strategist called it “madness.”

But the largest U.S. government agency - the Department of Defense - plans to forge ahead under the new administration with a decade-long effort to convert its fuel-hungry operations to renewable power, senior military officials told Reuters.

The reasons have nothing to do with the white-hot debate over climate change. In combat zones, green energy saves lives by, for instance, reducing the need for easily attacked convoys to deliver diesel fuel to generators at U.S. bases. Mobile solar-power units allow soldiers to prowl silently through enemy territory.

At sea, gas-electric hybrid battleships save fuel and allow for fewer stops – making them less vulnerable to attacks like the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000, when al-Qaeda militants killed 17 U.S. soldiers during a refueling stop in Yemen.

U.S. military marches forward on green energy, despite Trump

The good men in the military are far more interested in protecting their soldiers lives, than the ignorant opinion of the treasonous fat senile old orange clown.