Terrorists invite us to join them in debauchery.....US takes the bait

[Discombobulated]

"Terrorists invite us to join them in debauchery.....US takes the bait"

And unfortunately it's conservatives who for the most part advocate joining in the debauchery, motivated by their unwarranted fear and unwillingness to trust in the rule of law.

What rule of law? The rules you only make for us or is there some special law you are going to make that our enemies are supposed to adhere to?

How about you left wing idiots pass some stupid law that flying airplanes into our buildings and killing 3k people is against the law. Then we can make some stupid fucking law saying we won't treat their prisoners bad in any way and not stop the next attack.

Torture works when you have to deal with a bunch of lawless assholes out to kill your people. It's worked for centuries. It's why it's used. Your stupid fucking laws have never accomplished anything but putting yourself at a disadvantage in any war.

You're so shit ass fucking stupid you think laws will make war better? It's war shit stain. That pretty much meansd your stupid fucking laws don't apply.

You make a great recruiter for terrorists. Why are you so committed to giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Why do you hate America so much?

Of course, this is bad and the drone program under Obama is a good neighbor type program. Why do the liberals hate America?

I can hardly wait to hear your explanation of what drones have to do with torture.

Ahh, you said that torture was a recruiting tool what do you think killing innocents from a bunker in Nevada does for recruiting?

Air strikes against legitimate targets is a military action, torture is nothing like a military action against combatants. But I wouldn't expect you to know the difference.

 

[Discombobulated]

How we went to the Dark Side - The Week

America lost its collective mind. It was amid this mass hysteria that the Bush administration crossed a line that the U.S. had never before crossed, not even in fighting Hitler's Germany. In order to deliver us from evil, our intelligence agencies tortured people with a persistent, sadistic brutality that, we know now, left even CIA officers nauseated, shaking, and crying.

This is terrorism's sick genius. Terrorists invite us — seduce us — to share their Manichaean worldview, to respond to savagery with savagery, to join them in madness. "Make us safe!" Americans demanded. And so our elected leaders launched two wars, saw WMD where there were none, launched surveillance programs with virtually no limits, and embraced "enhanced interrogation." As justification, the White House and the CIA joined Machiavelli, Marx, and Stalin in insisting that the end justifies the means. Lots of individuals bear responsibility for the horrors detailed in the Senate committee’s torture report. But if we are honest, that journey to the Dark Side was a collective failure — and sobering evidence of how fragile our principles really are.

Except... out intelligence agencies didn't torture anyone.

As per the UN resolution on torture signed by Reagan......we did

More assertions utterly lacking proof.
See my sig for some level of comfort.

Lesson time.

UN Convention Against Torture

 

[Discombobulated]

"Terrorists invite us to join them in debauchery.....US takes the bait"

And unfortunately it's conservatives who for the most part advocate joining in the debauchery, motivated by their unwarranted fear and unwillingness to trust in the rule of law.

What rule of law? The rules you only make for us or is there some special law you are going to make that our enemies are supposed to adhere to?

How about you left wing idiots pass some stupid law that flying airplanes into our buildings and killing 3k people is against the law. Then we can make some stupid fucking law saying we won't treat their prisoners bad in any way and not stop the next attack.

Torture works when you have to deal with a bunch of lawless assholes out to kill your people. It's worked for centuries. It's why it's used. Your stupid fucking laws have never accomplished anything but putting yourself at a disadvantage in any war.

You're so shit ass fucking stupid you think laws will make war better? It's war shit stain. That pretty much meansd your stupid fucking laws don't apply.

You make a great recruiter for terrorists. Why are you so committed to giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Why do you hate America so much?

Of course, this is bad and the drone program under Obama is a good neighbor type program. Why do the liberals hate America?

I can hardly wait to hear your explanation of what drones have to do with torture.

Ahh, you said that torture was a recruiting tool what do you think killing innocents from a bunker in Nevada does for recruiting?

How does the use of drones refute the illegality of torture? Would you like to add more reasons for people to want to join the terrorists? It's not an all or nothing proposition, people are going to get hurt, but torture is completely unacceptable for any nation that wants to consider itself civilized. What part of that equation don't you understand?

 

[Discombobulated]

How we went to the Dark Side - The Week

America lost its collective mind. It was amid this mass hysteria that the Bush administration crossed a line that the U.S. had never before crossed, not even in fighting Hitler's Germany. In order to deliver us from evil, our intelligence agencies tortured people with a persistent, sadistic brutality that, we know now, left even CIA officers nauseated, shaking, and crying.

This is terrorism's sick genius. Terrorists invite us — seduce us — to share their Manichaean worldview, to respond to savagery with savagery, to join them in madness. "Make us safe!" Americans demanded. And so our elected leaders launched two wars, saw WMD where there were none, launched surveillance programs with virtually no limits, and embraced "enhanced interrogation." As justification, the White House and the CIA joined Machiavelli, Marx, and Stalin in insisting that the end justifies the means. Lots of individuals bear responsibility for the horrors detailed in the Senate committee’s torture report. But if we are honest, that journey to the Dark Side was a collective failure — and sobering evidence of how fragile our principles really are.

You're utterly naive if you believe we never tortured German prisoners. Plenty of GIs from that war have admitted we did.

Did our government direct them to do so?

Why do you bother asking a serious question of someone who is so consistently ignorant and dishonest?

 

[Discombobulated]

Ahhhh....so it was Bush's fault. What an interesting and original take on politics. Did mommy help you with that...idiot?

The web od deceit insured that Bush was kept in the dark. Plausible deniability, or lack of due process? Perhaps lack of intellectual curiosity. Regardless, this was a Cheney program from the start.

Do you trust Dick Cheney? Would you go hunting with him?

I would be honored to go hunting with Cheney. He would have made a great president.

Make sure your life insurance is paid up first.

 

[rightwinger]

Can you link to what you have in quotes?
I can't find anything close to it

Apostrophes... indicating paraphrasing... which you can find here: #46 and throughout this thread and other threads throughout this board, where the Left references Reagan's contest of torture as a means to project that inducing stress, is axiomatic torture.

Americans do not torture prisoners... but we WILL ad often DO induce an assload of stress on 'em, where we reasonably believe that the prisoner has information essential to stopping their comrades from murdering more innocent people.

Ya see scamp, it is part and parcel of bearing the responsibility, which requires us to defend the means of others to exercise their God-given rights.

Stop kidding yourself
We crossed the world established line on torture, a line even Reagan signed up to
Own it

 

[rightwinger]

So, the next time terrorists attack America, we should just invite them to join a big communal drumming circle at Burning Man?

No
We should continue to track them down like the filth they are

What we shouldn't do is lower ourselves down to their level of morality

So we shouldn't torture them? And instead use techniques to get the information we need without injuring them mentally or physically... . Agreed.

Therefore you must then agree, that since we NEED THE INFORMATION THEY HAVE, it is only reasonable that we will do what we did when Bush was President and induce significant stress upon the prisoner, causing them great discomfort, which intrinsically instill the desire in the prisoner for comfort, even as we provide for them an inherent path through which they can, and inevitably DO, acquire such.

Why the euphemisms?
All this dancing around.......enhanced interrogation, stress positions. If you need a doctor standing by, that is a good indication you are crossing the line
Torture is still torture

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Why the euphemisms ... Torture is still torture

Why the different ways to explain it? Well, the limited means of those to whom it is being explained, requires one to try different approaches.

Yep.

Torture is still torture.

And inducing discomfort is still ... NOT Torture.