Ten Gun Myths and Memes-- Shot Down

[Spoonman]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart) hmmm, so why do they want to register them?

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates... the real fact is 4 out of 5 homicides are commited in the states with the strictest gun laws

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

yea, you never get any road rage in chicago, NY or LA

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

it is estimated that private guns stop 2,500,000 personal attacks per year

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

not true, for every homicide there are 294 cases of self defense

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

again, 2,500,000 cases of self defense contradicts this information. and again, these studied look at inner city crime

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers... without guns they would have been strangled, beaten or something worse

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here) so you are saying pokemon is violent?

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

well except for the fact that 2012 saw 20,000,000 new requests for pistol permits alone. mmm that new owners for one style of gun. and the fact is guns are still increasing, yet homicides are down

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

of course that fact comes from a study done in 1997 where only 238 people even responded to the question where did you get your gun. and how many criminals did it inclued?

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here. wow, a no biased source

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

now lets take a look at some real facts. since the UK went on it's gun ban legislation it levels of homicides have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000. Now lets take a look at statistics in the USA. since the repeal of the semi auto weapons ban homicides in the USA have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000 per year.

 

[Pogo]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Classic, its start off by saying "They're coming for your guns" is false, and then goes on to list a bunch of bogus reason to support the gun-grabber agenda.

Nothing you listed is basis for overturning the second amendment.

Thx bye.

--- and if you actually read them, there is nothing in the link, or the OP, or in any of my posts anywhere, that suggests anything about gun grabbing, gun control, or the Second Amendment. Absolutely zero. What there is is a plugged-in assumption. I can't fathom what's so difficult about reading actual words on a page without plugging in others that are not there. This is Strawman writ large. Strawman is not debate; it's the opposite.

I opened this thread up last night around midnight and it's got 130 posts, so to me that's mission accomplished, since the mission was to open a dialogue about how we view these things; people are talking. Whether any of us are hearing is quite another hurdle, but it's not gonna happen if we plug in our own fantasies of "here's what you really mean". That's just perpetuating ignorance.

One other note about this conversation and the fear of having it: I've been negged three times (so far) just for starting this dialogue, i.e. for the thread itself. I would guess they're all from the " right" -- one of them (California Girl) I've never heard of or intetracted with at all and she's got her inbox turned off so I can't even ask what her basis was. Not one of these lifted a finger to come into the thread and debate a particular point; not one of them tried to refute any point in the neg; they just negged the whole thread. Rather than talk about how we view these things, some would rather they not be talked about at all, ever.

That brings up a larger question -- what kind of people is it that wants to shut down entire dialogue? What does it say when you'd rather tell (what you perceive to be) an opponent to STFU, rather than have the courage to actually engage in the conversation we obviously need to have? Is it insecurity, or just intellectual laziness? In one sense I see it as a manifestation of the raw emotion with which some approach this topic as if it's all they have. We can't make rational judgements out of emotion.

As I said to a poster last night, this list and the resources behind it were not done overnight; so it's not necessary to jump on it, positively or negatively in five minutes, without due diligence -- it's not a race. The message board isn't going anywhere, so let's take the time to talk and ponder what we're saying and why we're saying it. Lashing out with emotional outbursts is counterproductive and makes no point. When we construct our points rationally/calmly, we can finally stop wasting time on all that crap.

 

[RDD_1210]

Libs can't stand facts like this:

Chicago murder rate far worse since strict gun control - Washington Times



.

So no one in Chicago has guns? Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the world?

 

[Spoonman]

You are afraid to mention other European countries. Are you one of those limpwristers?

Here's one:

Switzerland One of the Safest Places Despite Armed Populace | Travel Splendid

.

This is part of their national service. Comparing Switzerland and the United States is ridiculous, totally different societies.

yet you will try to compare japan with the USA which are even more different societies. sorry your double standard fail is rejected

 

[RDD_1210]

Quit dancing around that fact that you want all guns banned and gun confiscation.

He didn't say will we be a gun-free society, he said you want a gun-free society.


.

Who is HE?

I left the United States 16 years ago. You all do whatever you want with your guns. My family lives in a much safer place.

Do not try to tell people what they think, you are not very good at it.

More dancing around the fact that you think America would be better off a gun-free society.


.

It would.

 

[Spoonman]

Libs can't stand facts like this:

Chicago murder rate far worse since strict gun control - Washington Times



.

So no one in Chicago has guns? Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the world?

a lot of good the laws do. ooh i know. lets make more laws and just pretend we are solving a problem

 

[Saigon]

One other note about this conversation and the fear of having it: I've been negged three times (so far) just for starting this dialogue, i.e. for the thread itself. I would guess they're all from the " right" -- one of them (California Girl) I've never heard of or intetracted with at all and she's got her inbox turned off so I can't even ask what her basis was. Not one of these lifted a finger to come into the thread and debate a particular point; they just negged the whole thread.

That really is amazing.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

You are afraid to mention other European countries. Are you one of those limpwristers?

Here's one:

Switzerland One of the Safest Places Despite Armed Populace | Travel Splendid

.

Childish. Dishonest. Stupid.

Since that is not a real refutation, I will take that as a concession.


.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Childish. Dishonest. Stupid.

I provided you with full citation of the US Department of Justice. It seems whenever you cannot respond to an argument, you conveniently forget/ignore that the argument exists.

Allow me to repost the citations for everyone to see after this edit.

2nd Amendement -

The Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey reports that the probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the benefits are smaller: offering no
resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than resisting with a gun.

Can we see a link for this study?

You are far more likely to survive
a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun.

Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%

U.S. Department of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979 60
Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey 61
U.S. Department of Justice 62
U.S. Department of Justice 63
British Home Office – no a pro-gun organization by any mean

From these same studies.

Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women
defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Fact:
When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes are
successful, compared to 32% when unarmed.

Fact:
The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no
resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the
benefits are smaller: offering no resistance is 1.4 times more likely to result in serious injury than
resisting with a gun.

Fact:
27% of women keep a gun in the house.

Fact:
37.6 million women either own or have rapid access to guns.

Fact:
In 1966 the city of Orlando responded to a wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms
training classes to women. The number of rapes dropped by nearly 90%.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/55878NCJRS.pdf


At this point Saigon, it's your job to prove the US Justice Department and the British Home Office wrong OR find an updated survey/study from those same agencies that contradicts their own findings.

 

[RDD_1210]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart) hmmm, so why do they want to register them?

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates... the real fact is 4 out of 5 homicides are commited in the states with the strictest gun laws

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

yea, you never get any road rage in chicago, NY or LA

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

it is estimated that private guns stop 2,500,000 personal attacks per year

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

not true, for every homicide there are 294 cases of self defense

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

again, 2,500,000 cases of self defense contradicts this information. and again, these studied look at inner city crime

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers... without guns they would have been strangled, beaten or something worse

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here) so you are saying pokemon is violent?

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

well except for the fact that 2012 saw 20,000,000 new requests for pistol permits alone. mmm that new owners for one style of gun. and the fact is guns are still increasing, yet homicides are down

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

of course that fact comes from a study done in 1997 where only 238 people even responded to the question where did you get your gun. and how many criminals did it inclued?

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here. wow, a no biased source

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

now lets take a look at some real facts. since the UK went on it's gun ban legislation it levels of homicides have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000. Now lets take a look at statistics in the USA. since the repeal of the semi auto weapons ban homicides in the USA have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000 per year.

Look who it is. The guy who likes to make up stats. I noticed you have once again failed to provide a source for your info. You didn't take enough of a beating in the other thread?

 

[Spoonman]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Classic, its start off by saying "They're coming for your guns" is false, and then goes on to list a bunch of bogus reason to support the gun-grabber agenda.

Nothing you listed is basis for overturning the second amendment.

Thx bye.

--- and if you actually read them, there is nothing in the link, or the OP, or in any of my posts anywhere, that suggests anything about gun grabbing, gun control, or the Second Amendment. Absolutely zero. What there is is a plugged-in assumption. I can't fathom what's so difficult about reading actual words on a page without plugging in others that are not there. This is Strawman writ large. Strawman is not debate; it's the opposite.

I opened this thread up last night around midnight and it's got 130 posts, so to me that's mission accomplished, since the mission was to open a dialogue; people are talking. Whether any of us are hearing is quite another hurdle, but it's not gonna happen if we plug in our own fantasies of "here's what you really mean". That's just perpetuating ignorance.

One other note about this conversation and the fear of having it: I've been negged three times (so far) just for starting this dialogue, i.e. for the thread itself. I would guess they're all from the " right" -- one of them (California Girl) I've never heard of or intetracted with at all and she's got her inbox turned off so I can't even ask what her basis was. Not one of these lifted a finger to come into the thread and debate a particular point; they just negged the whole thread.

That brings up a larger question -- what kind of people is it that wants to shut down entire dialogue? What does it say when you'd rather tell (what you perceive to be) an opponent to STFU, rather than have the courage to actually engage in the conversation we obviously need to have? Is it insecurity, or just intellectual laziness? In one sense I see it as a manifestation of the raw emotion with which some approach this topic as if it's all they have. We can't make rational judgements out of emotion.

As I said to a poster last night, this list and the resources behind it were not done overnight; so it's not necessary to jump on it, positively or negatively in five minutes, without due diligence -- it's not a race. The message board isn't going anywhere, so let's take the time to talk and ponder what we're saying and why we're saying it. Lashing out with emotional outbursts is counterproductive and makes no point. When we construct our points rationally/calmly, we can finally stop wasting time on all that crap.

so why the need to register all guns and know where they all are? why the need to track ammo purchases to identify what guns people have, in case they missed any in the registration? Why does diane feinsteins proposal specifically call for confiscation of like 115 different types of guns current in the hands of private citizens?

 

[RDD_1210]

Libs can't stand facts like this:

Chicago murder rate far worse since strict gun control - Washington Times



.

So no one in Chicago has guns? Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the world?

a lot of good the laws do. ooh i know. lets make more laws and just pretend we are solving a problem

We need the right laws. Like they have in numerous other countries that have figured out which laws are needed and how to enforce them.

You fail again.

 

[Spoonman]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart) hmmm, so why do they want to register them?

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates... the real fact is 4 out of 5 homicides are commited in the states with the strictest gun laws

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

yea, you never get any road rage in chicago, NY or LA

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

it is estimated that private guns stop 2,500,000 personal attacks per year

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

not true, for every homicide there are 294 cases of self defense

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

again, 2,500,000 cases of self defense contradicts this information. and again, these studied look at inner city crime

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers... without guns they would have been strangled, beaten or something worse

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here) so you are saying pokemon is violent?

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

well except for the fact that 2012 saw 20,000,000 new requests for pistol permits alone. mmm that new owners for one style of gun. and the fact is guns are still increasing, yet homicides are down

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

of course that fact comes from a study done in 1997 where only 238 people even responded to the question where did you get your gun. and how many criminals did it inclued?

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here. wow, a no biased source

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

now lets take a look at some real facts. since the UK went on it's gun ban legislation it levels of homicides have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000. Now lets take a look at statistics in the USA. since the repeal of the semi auto weapons ban homicides in the USA have decreased by about .5 to .6 per 100,000 per year.

Look who it is. The guy who likes to make up stats. I noticed you have once again failed to provide a source for your info. You didn't take enough of a beating in the other thread?

ah yes, it's mister fail who links a conversation between two journalists and calls it a fact. you lose again

 

[Spoonman]

So no one in Chicago has guns? Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the world?

a lot of good the laws do. ooh i know. lets make more laws and just pretend we are solving a problem

We need the right laws. Like they have in numerous other countries that have figured out which laws are needed and how to enforce them.

You fail again.

funny when we had pretty much no laws we had far less issues. keep on failing, that's your motto

 

[GeoLaureate8]

More dancing around the fact that you think America would be better off a gun-free society.


.

It would.

Australia Gun Laws Provided No Extra Safety | Wall Street Journal


.

 

[Saigon]

yet you will try to compare japan with the USA which are even more different societies. sorry your double standard fail is rejected

No one has mentioned Japan on this thread except you.

It is logical to compare the US with other large, developed western economies - Germany, France, the UK, Canada, perhaps Australia and Holland.

Less so with Switzerland, Japan, Fiji or China.

 

[Spoonman]

More dancing around the fact that you think America would be better off a gun-free society.


.

It would.

Australia Gun Laws Provided No Extra Safety | Wall Street Journal


.

damn dude, thats a fact. he can't handle them and gets all crazy and aggitated

 

[Spoonman]

yet you will try to compare japan with the USA which are even more different societies. sorry your double standard fail is rejected

No one has mentioned Japan on this thread except you.

It is logical to compare the US with other large, developed western economies - Germany, France, the UK, Canada, perhaps Australia and Holland.

Less so with Switzerland, Japan, Fiji or China.

please, they are the new liberal standard. of course they cant show any link to the placement of strict gun laws and a reduction of homicides.

 

[Ernie S.]

Not at all, I think that America is fucked. There is no going back.

Quit dancing around that fact that you want all guns banned and gun confiscation.

He didn't say will we be a gun-free society, he said you want a gun-free society.


.

Who is HE?

I left the United States 16 years ago. You all do whatever you want with your guns. My family lives in a much safer place.

Do not try to tell people what they think, you are not very good at it.

Then why the hell are you still trying to force your warped values on the people that stayed. Aren't there any political discussion forums in the Utopia you live in now, or do they not allow dissent?

Do not try to tell people what to think, you are not very good at it and you no longer have any business trying to influence what goes on in a country you abandoned.

 

[RDD_1210]

Ten Gun Myths Shot Down in a Hail of • • • bullets ​

• Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. (chart)

• Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates...

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.

• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without...​

• Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5.​

• Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home...​

• Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.​

• Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers...

• Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
(chart/resource in link - wont behave here)

• Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population...

• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each...​

• Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.

• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check...​

Links for substantiation of all points, charts, further point narratives at the article link here.

Here's one of them pertaining to Myth 2, particularly illustrative:

Also worth a look is this chart from one of the resources, listing the world's countries ranked by rate of gun ownership (i.e. how armed we are). Take a look at how far ahead we are.

Topic armed and dangerous, unlocked and loaded. Bring it on.

Classic, its start off by saying "They're coming for your guns" is false, and then goes on to list a bunch of bogus reason to support the gun-grabber agenda.

Nothing you listed is basis for overturning the second amendment.

Thx bye.

--- and if you actually read them, there is nothing in the link, or the OP, or in any of my posts anywhere, that suggests anything about gun grabbing, gun control, or the Second Amendment. Absolutely zero. What there is is a plugged-in assumption. I can't fathom what's so difficult about reading actual words on a page without plugging in others that are not there. This is Strawman writ large. Strawman is not debate; it's the opposite.

I opened this thread up last night around midnight and it's got 130 posts, so to me that's mission accomplished, since the mission was to open a dialogue about how we view these things; people are talking. Whether any of us are hearing is quite another hurdle, but it's not gonna happen if we plug in our own fantasies of "here's what you really mean". That's just perpetuating ignorance.

One other note about this conversation and the fear of having it: I've been negged three times (so far) just for starting this dialogue, i.e. for the thread itself. I would guess they're all from the " right" -- one of them (California Girl) I've never heard of or intetracted with at all and she's got her inbox turned off so I can't even ask what her basis was. Not one of these lifted a finger to come into the thread and debate a particular point; not one of them tried to refute any point in the neg; they just negged the whole thread. Rather than talk about how we view these things, some would rather they not be talked about at all, ever.

That brings up a larger question -- what kind of people is it that wants to shut down entire dialogue? What does it say when you'd rather tell (what you perceive to be) an opponent to STFU, rather than have the courage to actually engage in the conversation we obviously need to have? Is it insecurity, or just intellectual laziness? In one sense I see it as a manifestation of the raw emotion with which some approach this topic as if it's all they have. We can't make rational judgements out of emotion.

As I said to a poster last night, this list and the resources behind it were not done overnight; so it's not necessary to jump on it, positively or negatively in five minutes, without due diligence -- it's not a race. The message board isn't going anywhere, so let's take the time to talk and ponder what we're saying and why we're saying it. Lashing out with emotional outbursts is counterproductive and makes no point. When we construct our points rationally/calmly, we can finally stop wasting time on all that crap.

The sad fact is you're dealing with selfish, uneducated, dishonest people who lack the ability or intelligence to have an honest discussion about this issue.

They only care about preserving their ability to keep their toys so that their fantasy of playing out a Red Dawn scenario against their own government can live on in their warped minds.

They're all snipers who never miss and taking away their guns is taking away the very identity they've created of themselves in their own minds. This is why a logical discussion can not take place.