Honestly:will you socialists that support nationalizing of USA like Venzuela

[healthmyths]

tell me how that works?

I mean if like Venzuela you want to nationalize the oil industry, the health industry, are you in favor of following the Venzuelan model..

Since Chávez was elected in 1998, over 100,000 worker-owned cooperatives—representing approximately 1.5 million people—have been formed with the assistance of government start-up credit, technical training, and by giving preferential treatment to cooperatives in state purchases of goods and equipment. As of 2005, approximately 16% of Venezuela's formally employed citizens were employed in a cooperative.
However, a 2006 census showed that as many as 50% of the cooperatives were either functioning improperly, or were fraudulently created to gain access to public funds.

Additionally, several thousand "Communal Councils" (Consejos Communales) have been created. In these Communal councils, citizens form assemblies to determine what will be done with government funds in their local area. Groups are made up of 150-200 or more families in urban areas, and starting at around 15-20 families in rural areas, and their decisions are binding to local government officials. 21,000 of these groups were created in 2007, and 30,179 by 2009. As of 2007, about 30% of state funds were directly controlled by communal councils, with a goal of eventually having them control 50%.

As of 2007, 300 communal banks had been established, and had received $70 million in government funding, to be used for local micro-loans. With these funds, the councils have implemented thousands of community projects, such as paving streets, creating sports fields, building medical centers, and constructing sewage and water systems. Some leaders have proposed that the councils replace city and state governments entirely, or work parallel to them. By 2008, there were more than 3,500 such banks, which received $140 million in funding in 2008, and were budgeted to receive $1.6 billion in 2009.

Since 2003, Chavez has been setting strict price controls on food, and these price controls have been causing shortages and hoarding.[32] In January 2008, Chavez ordered the military to seize 750 tons of food that sellers were illegally trying to smuggle across the border to sell for higher prices than what was legal in Venezuela.

So is this what we can expect from Obama and his socialist agenda??

 

[healthmyths]

The Chavez government's confiscations of private businesses, especially oil businesses, has greatly weakened the private sector; oil production has collapsed.
The government of Venezuela treats PDVSA as a cash-cow,and the company only hires political supporters of the president.

Nationalizations
The Chávez government nationalized several industries in 2007 and 2008, as part of its policy of wealth redistribution and reducing the influence of multinational corporations.

A 3 January 2007 article in the International Herald Tribune reported that price controls were causing shortages of materials used in the construction industry.[49] According to an 4 April 2008 article from CBS News, Chavez ordered the nationalization of the cement industry, in response to the fact that the industry was exporting its products in order to receive prices above those which it was allowed to obtain within the country.[50]

Chavez has nationalized Venezuela's largest telephone companies and electric utilities. In 2008 he ordered the halting of the construction of a shopping mall, and said the land would be nationalized and turned into a hospital or university.[51]

The nation's largest private electricity producer, 82-percent owned by US-based AES Corp, was obtained by paying $740 million to AES for its share – fair compensation according to financial analysts cited by Reuters.[52]

In 2007 the main telephone company, CANTV, was nationalised by buying US-based Verizon Communications' 28.5 percent share for $572 million – again, fair compensation according to analysts cited by Reuters.[52]

In 2008 the Venezuelan government nationalized the leading steel company, Argentine-controlled Sidor, following months of strikes and labour-management disputes.

In 2008, cement production was largely nationalised, with Venezuelan-located plants belonging to Mexico's Cemex, Switzerland's Holcim, and France's Lafarge being bought by the government. Compensations of $552 million for Holcim and $267 million for Lafarge were agreed upon, with both of those companies agreeing to stay on as minority partners and retaining 10 to 15 percent shares; the takeover from Cemex was less friendly and compensation had not been agreed on as of March 2009. According to Chávez, the cement plants were exporting cement that was needed in Venezuela, because they could obtain higher prices outside Venezuela

In 2008 Chávez ordered the halting of the construction of a mega-shopping mall, in downtown Caracas by Sambil, saying that it was inappropriate development in an already overcrowded, over-trafficked area. He suggested the land would be nationalized and turned into a hospital or university.

A food plant owned by US giant Cargill was nationalised in early 2009.

On 28 February 2009 Chavez ordered the military to temporarily seize control of all the rice processing plants in the country and force them to produce at full capacity, which he claimed they had been avoiding in response to the price caps. The country's largest food processor, Empresas Polar, said that the regulated price of plain rice was well below the cost of production, and as a result 90% of its rice output was flavoured rice not subject to price controls. It also said that its plant was operating at 50% capacity due to raw material shortages; the government however claimed to have found 2 months' worth of raw rice in storage at the plant.
In mid-2009 the Venezuelan government took temporary control of Fama de America and Cafe Madrid coffee plants, accusing the manufacturers, which together have 70% of the Venezuelan market, of hoarding and of smuggling coffee to Colombia.

Banco de Venezuela was nationalized in 2009; Banco Bicentenario was created in late 2009 from nationalized banks taken over in the course of the Venezuelan banking crisis of 2009-2010.

 

[francoHFW]

Obviously not, chump of the greedy idiot rich.

 

[healthmyths]

Obviously not, chump of the greedy idiot rich.

What do you mean by that?

"Obviously not" what?? Are you not in favor of nationalizing oil,health care among others?

And "chump of the greedy idiot rich"...

Again being the 4th grade mentality you really think all rich people are greedy and idiots at the same time?

So no wonder you have to resort to smilies to get your limited points across because it's hard to finger paint on the forum!!!

 

[asaratis]

tell me how that works?

I mean if like Venzuela you want to nationalize the oil industry, the health industry, are you in favor of following the Venzuelan model..

Since Chávez was elected in 1998, over 100,000 worker-owned cooperatives—representing approximately 1.5 million people—have been formed with the assistance of government start-up credit, technical training, and by giving preferential treatment to cooperatives in state purchases of goods and equipment. As of 2005, approximately 16% of Venezuela's formally employed citizens were employed in a cooperative.
However, a 2006 census showed that as many as 50% of the cooperatives were either functioning improperly, or were fraudulently created to gain access to public funds.

Additionally, several thousand "Communal Councils" (Consejos Communales) have been created. In these Communal councils, citizens form assemblies to determine what will be done with government funds in their local area. Groups are made up of 150-200 or more families in urban areas, and starting at around 15-20 families in rural areas, and their decisions are binding to local government officials. 21,000 of these groups were created in 2007, and 30,179 by 2009. As of 2007, about 30% of state funds were directly controlled by communal councils, with a goal of eventually having them control 50%.

As of 2007, 300 communal banks had been established, and had received $70 million in government funding, to be used for local micro-loans. With these funds, the councils have implemented thousands of community projects, such as paving streets, creating sports fields, building medical centers, and constructing sewage and water systems. Some leaders have proposed that the councils replace city and state governments entirely, or work parallel to them. By 2008, there were more than 3,500 such banks, which received $140 million in funding in 2008, and were budgeted to receive $1.6 billion in 2009.

Since 2003, Chavez has been setting strict price controls on food, and these price controls have been causing shortages and hoarding.[32] In January 2008, Chavez ordered the military to seize 750 tons of food that sellers were illegally trying to smuggle across the border to sell for higher prices than what was legal in Venezuela.

So is this what we can expect from Obama and his socialist agenda??

Promoters of socialism seldom look beyond their own means of existence to justify the changes they seek. They see themselves as being cheated by inequities in the distribution of the necessities and luxuries of life around them. It is "the other people" that prevent them from attaining equity. They have less and will always have less because of the actions of "the other people". The history of other countries that have failed to produce the utopian lifestyles through socialism is of no interest.

 

[bucs90]

Well, I know this. In Charleston, SC, we have only one option for electricity: SCE&G, a privately owned company. The Post and Courrier this week reported SCE&G made record profits, and sent huge increases in dividends to it's shareholders. They ask for rate hikes every other month, and blame "Obama's green energy policies". Somehow, though, they rake in huge profits, despite "Obama policies".

Could the US government fund the operation of the power grid, in a non-profit manner, and thus allowing people to keep more money in their pockets?

What is "free money"...whether it comes from welfare, or dividends, it is still money you didn't physically work for that came at the cost of others. Just sayin'.

 

[francoHFW]

Obviously not, chump of the greedy idiot rich.

What do you mean by that?

"Obviously not" what?? Are you not in favor of nationalizing oil,health care among others?

And "chump of the greedy idiot rich"...

Again being the 4th grade mentality you really think all rich people are greedy and idiots at the same time?

So no wonder you have to resort to smilies to get your limited points across because it's hard to finger paint on the forum!!!

Answering your OP question. obviously.

Just your greedy idiot Pub heroes, obviously. You want a diagram?

 

[uscitizen]

The USA is being corporatized not nationalized.

 

[uscitizen]

Well, I know this. In Charleston, SC, we have only one option for electricity: SCE&G, a privately owned company. The Post and Courrier this week reported SCE&G made record profits, and sent huge increases in dividends to it's shareholders. They ask for rate hikes every other month, and blame "Obama's green energy policies". Somehow, though, they rake in huge profits, despite "Obama policies".

Could the US government fund the operation of the power grid, in a non-profit manner, and thus allowing people to keep more money in their pockets?

What is "free money"...whether it comes from welfare, or dividends, it is still money you didn't physically work for that came at the cost of others. Just sayin'.

Naah we can't do that.
Why? Think about the on's.
Enron, Exxon, Chevron....

 

[Dragonlady]

Promoters of socialism seldom look beyond their own means of existence to justify the changes they seek. They see themselves as being cheated by inequities in the distribution of the necessities and luxuries of life around them. It is "the other people" that prevent them from attaining equity. They have less and will always have less because of the actions of "the other people". The history of other countries that have failed to produce the utopian lifestyles through socialism is of no interest.

Yes, Argentina was so much better off when the multinationals owned everything, unemployment was high, inflation was high, wages were stagnant, and the poor were suffering. Now it apears they're going too far in the other direction, but at least they thrown off the IMF and their insistence on "market reforms" that have relegated Chile and Brazil to second world status permanently.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Honestly:will you socialists that support nationalizing of USA like Venzuela

There are no ‘socialists.’

Perhaps you could try something different and start a thread with some facts for a change.

 

[francoHFW]

Venezuela was a cruel, unjust, incredibly corrupt oligarchy when Hugo got there. He cut poverty by 65% and wiped out huge illiteracy and gave them health care and housing. And despite all the media lies, he's no dictator- sorry about democracy.

 

[Mr. H.]

Well, I know this. In Charleston, SC, we have only one option for electricity: SCE&G, a privately owned company. The Post and Courrier this week reported SCE&G made record profits, and sent huge increases in dividends to it's shareholders. They ask for rate hikes every other month, and blame "Obama's green energy policies". Somehow, though, they rake in huge profits, despite "Obama policies".

Could the US government fund the operation of the power grid, in a non-profit manner, and thus allowing people to keep more money in their pockets?

What is "free money"...whether it comes from welfare, or dividends, it is still money you didn't physically work for that came at the cost of others. Just sayin'.

SCE&G has expended massive amounts of private equity in order to build, expand, monitor, service, and maintain their enterprise. Shareholders, at expense to themselves through aquisition of equtiy interests, are vested and so assume expense as well as profit. They also assume risk.

You said yourself that we are "at war for resources, overseas resources". So which is cheaper, to wage "war" overseas or to ensure the future of our own resources and power generation?

Without profit, SCE&G has no future. Without dividend distributions to shareholders, they could not attract capital. Without increases in rates, they could not cover ever-expanding expenses of operation.

 

[Mr. H.]

Well, I know this. In Charleston, SC, we have only one option for electricity: SCE&G, a privately owned company. The Post and Courrier this week reported SCE&G made record profits, and sent huge increases in dividends to it's shareholders. They ask for rate hikes every other month, and blame "Obama's green energy policies". Somehow, though, they rake in huge profits, despite "Obama policies".

Could the US government fund the operation of the power grid, in a non-profit manner, and thus allowing people to keep more money in their pockets?

What is "free money"...whether it comes from welfare, or dividends, it is still money you didn't physically work for that came at the cost of others. Just sayin'.

Naah we can't do that.
Why? Think about the on's.
Enron, Exxon, Chevron....

I could spout my usual, but if you are curious enough I invite you to search out a few facts...

Who drills the vast majority of oil and natural gas wells in the U.S.?
What is the reinvestment rate of these companies?
What is the average effective tax rate by industry 2006-2011?

 

[Grandma]

What the OP fails to accept is that both public and private control are subject to corruption. In other words, it doesn't matter in the slightest who owns or controls something, it's how they control it.

Healthcare was mentioned specifically. With private insurance people paid ever increasing premiums, but could be suddenly cut off - with no refund - if someone in their neighborhood, or age group, or ethnic background, or working a similar job, etc. fell ill and needed treatment.

There are millions that can't afford private insurance.

Private insurance did not consult with the doctors to adjust for patients' needs, they instead relied on their bean counters to determine if John Doe really needs that medicine now.

So private insurance is not working in the best interests of this great country. Does that mean all private businesses are bad? No. The bread industry has few complaints. I don't hear anyone screaming for the government to take over the paper products industry. I'm overjoyed that the feds dn't run the fashion industry, too many of them have really crappy taste.

So, some things, like interstate highways, major waterway regulations, and yes, healthcare need government control. But not everything does.

Once again a right winger starts a fail thread.

 

[francoHFW]

Their CEO doesn't pay enough in taxes...or many of their exec's

 

[The Irish Ram]

Obviously not, chump of the greedy idiot rich.

The chump is the one that thinks Wall Street is the rich, the 1%. lol
Obama works for the 1%. Parties with the 1%, and favors them (cough,Kerry)
The chump doesn't know that Jim Crane is the oil soaked 1%er that Obama played golf/mulled things over with. Tiger was the media pitch for the chumps.

I wonder if Obama asked Crane/Big Oil why gas prices have shot upward now that the election is over with.....

 

[Mr. H.]

Their CEO doesn't pay enough in taxes...or many of their exec's

In other words, the government allows them to keep what is theirs in the first place?

 

[bucs90]

Well, I know this. In Charleston, SC, we have only one option for electricity: SCE&G, a privately owned company. The Post and Courrier this week reported SCE&G made record profits, and sent huge increases in dividends to it's shareholders. They ask for rate hikes every other month, and blame "Obama's green energy policies". Somehow, though, they rake in huge profits, despite "Obama policies".

Could the US government fund the operation of the power grid, in a non-profit manner, and thus allowing people to keep more money in their pockets?

What is "free money"...whether it comes from welfare, or dividends, it is still money you didn't physically work for that came at the cost of others. Just sayin'.

SCE&G has expended massive amounts of private equity in order to build, expand, monitor, service, and maintain their enterprise. Shareholders, at expense to themselves through aquisition of equtiy interests, are vested and so assume expense as well as profit. They also assume risk.

You said yourself that we are "at war for resources, overseas resources". So which is cheaper, to wage "war" overseas or to ensure the future of our own resources and power generation?

Without profit, SCE&G has no future. Without dividend distributions to shareholders, they could not attract capital. Without increases in rates, they could not cover ever-expanding expenses of operation.

Yep. All 100% true, I dont disagree. But, how does that help the thousands who are struggling to pay their bills? It doesnt. So, surely you see how the message of nationalizing certain things appeals to many?

Just like some people who are struggling with their business get outraged to hear a government employee making more........many who are struggling to pay bills get outraged to hear their power bills soared so stockholders could make a few more dollars.

We need a middle ground, but the partisan sides are fleeing farther apart.

 

[bucs90]

Their CEO doesn't pay enough in taxes...or many of their exec's

In other words, the government allows them to keep what is theirs in the first place?

Well, they can send it to the government, or have it taken from them by the armed thugs that would exist without government.

Someone is gonna rule your life whether you like it or not: Government, Religious zealots, or Criminal Gangs.

Places like Mexico and Afghanistan are run by gangs and religion.

We fund a government to avoid being run by the other two. It is the lesserist (yep, made up word) of the three evils.