telling lies with the truth

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Old Rocks, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,560
    Thanks Received:
    5,424
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,368
  2. Chris
    Offline

    Chris Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,154
    Thanks Received:
    1,958
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +2,089
    This is the best part....

    Last year, he assembled a database of 3,146 geoscientists across the planet to get their views on global warming. The results: 90 percent believe it exists, with 80 percent sure that earthlings are causing most of it.

    His survey was published last month in Eos, a publication of the American Geophysical Union.

    "There is no debate," he said. "There are a few people on the fringes who make a living out of being contrarian, but you can't ignore the long-term trends.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. tigerbob
    Offline

    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,225
    Thanks Received:
    971
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +972
    Rocks - I haven't read your OP yet, but I'll go out on a limb and guess it's something about the right or GOP telling lies.

    If you've started an open minded thread I will apologize.
     
  4. tigerbob
    Offline

    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,225
    Thanks Received:
    971
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +972
    Bingo.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. Chris
    Offline

    Chris Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,154
    Thanks Received:
    1,958
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +2,089
    The votes are in and you lose.

    80% is a landslide.
     
  6. tigerbob
    Offline

    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,225
    Thanks Received:
    971
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +972
    Is that addressed to me? If so, why do I lose?
     
  7. JohnStOnge
    Offline

    JohnStOnge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    321
    Thanks Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +42
    You think reality is determined by how people vote? The only known reality here is that 80% believe a certain way.

    The worst thing that guy said is "there is no debate." I've seen that over and over again. It's like they want to declare the debate over when it's not. A 5 against 1, a 10 against 1, 100 against one, are even 1000 against one debate is still a debate.

    And we have stuff like that Oreskes thing we discussed in another thread, where she tried to create the impression that there were no "contrary" papers published in peer reviewed journals when that just objectively isn't true.

    To say that 80% of persons in a certain range of fields believe a certain way means "there is no debate" is really lame.
     
  8. Chris
    Offline

    Chris Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,154
    Thanks Received:
    1,958
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +2,089
    CO2 causes the earth to retain heat.

    We are adding 8 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year.

    About this there is no debate.
     
  9. JohnStOnge
    Offline

    JohnStOnge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    321
    Thanks Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +42
    CO2 is one factor in what the temperature of the planet's atmosphere is. There are many other factors. When I say there is debate I'm talking about debate with respect to the idea that it's been established that the Earth's temperature is being significantly impacted by humankind and that if something dramatic isn't done disaster will ensue.

    Here is an example of what I'd call "dissent:"

    http://eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/230_TakingGr.pdf

    A quote:

    "The main point of this paper is simply to illustrate why serious and persistent doubts remain concerning the danger of anthropogenic global warming despite the frequent claims that 'the science is settled.'"

    In that paper Lindzen says that the "bound" one might place on the proportion of warming attributable to human activity is about one third. However, I do not read him as saying that to mean that any warming at all can be definitely attributed to human activity. I say that because of this statement:

    "Contrary to the iconic statement of the latest IPCC Summary for
    Policymakers, this is only on the order of a third of the observed trend at the surface, and suggests a warming of about 0.4° over a century. It should be added that this is a bound more than an estimate. Greenhouse warming must appear in the neighborhood of 300 hPa, but warming at 300 hPa does not have to be greenhouse warming."


    I realize Lindzen is frequently attacked. His high profile image as one of the skeptics the global warmists have one of the more difficult times dealing with due to his indisputable credentials as a "climate scientist" is why I usually do searches on his name to find "contrarian" papers.* But the fact is that there continues to be debate.

    I've got to add, again, that the IPCC has itself conceded that unequivocal attribution of any aspect of climate change is not possible.

    *I don't personally accept the premise that legitimate debate on the issue can only involve "climate scientists," nor do I accept the premise that legitimate debate can only be expressed in peer reviewed journals. However, I try to use climate scientists and statements made in papers published in peer reviewed journals when possible in order to eliminate those premises as issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
  10. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,618
    Well OBVIOUSLY the solution to gloabl warming is just to convince the scientists who think it is happening to stop thinking it is happening.

    Because we ALL know that perception is reality, right?

    The globe, upon hearing that the scientists no longer believe in global warming will immediately begin cooling to conform to the scientists' belief systems.

    Right?

    Tomorrow's brilliant solution to the economic meltdown - convincing people that they have money so everything will be okay again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009

Share This Page