Teen Dies After Officers Use Taser to Subdue Him

[Xenophon]

Tasers are torture devices, there can be no moral justifaction for them.

They are designed soley to inflict pain and used often with poor judgement by law enforcement at the slightest provocation as hundreds of videos have shown.

Every cop that has ever used one should have it used on them, then this shit would stop.

 

[Si modo]

Tasers are torture devices, there can be no moral justifaction for them.

They are designed soley to inflict pain and used often with poor judgement by law enforcement at the slightest provocation as hundreds of videos have shown.

Every cop that has ever used one should have it used on them, then this shit would stop.

The LEOs around here must go through training in their use before they are issued one. That training includes getting tazed.

 

[Article 15]

get rid of the tasers.

when they introduced them, they SAID they were safe...they lied....Taser lied.

silly to say it is either a gunshot or a taser...that's simply untrue...there was life before tasers...

You prefer .38 caliber pistols do ya?

Why are you acting like shooting someone with a gun is the only alternative to a taser in every situation?

 

[California Girl]

Let's see some statistics on how less suspects have been killed by cops because of the use of the taser vs a gun.... a little proof please.

TASER, lied to us about their tasers....and because of it, cops are using them, more freely than they should, to stop suspects that they could stop otherwise by cuffing them or restraining them under their normal standards that they had prior to tasers....cops have been given a false sense of security that tasers would not kill anyone...they felt better using them than their guns in certain circumstances when they knew the suspect did not deserve to die via a bullet....but now they are dying via the taser....that does not make them ANY LESS DEAD.

sINCE it has become evident that tasers DO KILL PEOPLE, the police need to rewrite their procedures on their use, so that they use them less frequently and under only certain conditions...


I do not want ANYONE DEAD because of their use, whether the person was an idiot or not...NOT IN MY NAME is my government going to kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Two small points:

1. Innocent?

2. They are welcome to do it in my name instead of yours. I'll sign off on anything that helps cops.

 

[Care4all]

Let's see some statistics on how less suspects have been killed by cops because of the use of the taser vs a gun.... a little proof please.

TASER, lied to us about their tasers....and because of it, cops are using them, more freely than they should, to stop suspects that they could stop otherwise by cuffing them or restraining them under their normal standards that they had prior to tasers....cops have been given a false sense of security that tasers would not kill anyone...they felt better using them than their guns in certain circumstances when they knew the suspect did not deserve to die via a bullet....but now they are dying via the taser....that does not make them ANY LESS DEAD.

sINCE it has become evident that tasers DO KILL PEOPLE, the police need to rewrite their procedures on their use, so that they use them less frequently and under only certain conditions...


I do not want ANYONE DEAD because of their use, whether the person was an idiot or not...NOT IN MY NAME is my government going to kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Two small points:

1. Innocent?

2. They are welcome to do it in my name instead of yours. I'll sign off on anything that helps cops.

Yes INNOCENT...I don't know what country you live in, but in the United States of America, our cops or you are not judge trial and jury or executioner, we are INNOCENT until proven GUILTY, in a court of Law...in America....

Care

 

[Care4all]

Portland Cops May Reevaluate Taser Policy After Company's Shocking Policy Change
Posted by Matt Davis on Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:18 PM

The Portland Police Bureau is evaluating a shocking new advisement by Taser International, and will decide about changes in its Taser policy training, according to bureau spokeswoman Mary Wheat, this afternoon.

Canadian Mounties were instructed last Friday to aim Taser probes away from the suspect's chest area, after Taser International raised new concerns about its weapons causing cardiac arrest.

Taser International issued the directive at the end of September, saying that cutting back on chest shots “avoids the controversy about whether [electronic control devices] do or do not affect the human heart.”

Taser said in its bulletin that the “risk of an adverse cardiac event” related to taser use is “deemed to be extremely low.” However, the company adds that a number of factors come into play, including drug use or underlying cardiac problems that cannot be diagnosed by police officers on the spot.


Here's a graphic from the newspaper in Canada:
taser_graphic_273762a.jpg


AIM AWAY FROM THE CHEST: TO STOP CARDIAC ARRESTS

Until recently, Taser has claimed its weapons are completely safe. Now, it's suggesting they're completely safe, but you might want to not shoot people in the chest to avoid "controversy," like the suspect dying?

"Our training division is aware of the Taser International advisement," says Wheat. "We are evaluating it and will decide about changes in our Taser policy training."

 

[Care4all]

Tasers are torture devices, there can be no moral justifaction for them.

They are designed soley to inflict pain and used often with poor judgement by law enforcement at the slightest provocation as hundreds of videos have shown.

Every cop that has ever used one should have it used on them, then this shit would stop.

The LEOs around here must go through training in their use before they are issued one. That training includes getting tazed.

changes in the usa coming soon perhaps?

VANCOUVER — A police Taser expert who analyzed the unit used on Robert Dziekanski says his department no longer uses the electric stun guns on its own officers in training.

Const. Craig Baltzer of the Delta police force told the public inquiry into Dziekanski’s death at Vancouver airport that he himself has been stunned multiple times but WorkSafe BC rules now forbid demonstrating the weapons on officers during training.

 

[California Girl]

Tasers are torture devices, there can be no moral justifaction for them.

They are designed soley to inflict pain and used often with poor judgement by law enforcement at the slightest provocation as hundreds of videos have shown.

Every cop that has ever used one should have it used on them, then this shit would stop.

That really makes me want one!

 

[California Girl]

Let's see some statistics on how less suspects have been killed by cops because of the use of the taser vs a gun.... a little proof please.

TASER, lied to us about their tasers....and because of it, cops are using them, more freely than they should, to stop suspects that they could stop otherwise by cuffing them or restraining them under their normal standards that they had prior to tasers....cops have been given a false sense of security that tasers would not kill anyone...they felt better using them than their guns in certain circumstances when they knew the suspect did not deserve to die via a bullet....but now they are dying via the taser....that does not make them ANY LESS DEAD.

sINCE it has become evident that tasers DO KILL PEOPLE, the police need to rewrite their procedures on their use, so that they use them less frequently and under only certain conditions...


I do not want ANYONE DEAD because of their use, whether the person was an idiot or not...NOT IN MY NAME is my government going to kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Two small points:

1. Innocent?

2. They are welcome to do it in my name instead of yours. I'll sign off on anything that helps cops.

Yes INNOCENT...I don't know what country you live in, but in the United States of America, our cops or you are not judge trial and jury or executioner, we are INNOCENT until proven GUILTY, in a court of Law...in America....

Care

Currenly, British law is the law I live under. Namby pamby hug the bad guy law.

I still have no problem with Tazers, or anything else that provides LEOs with another tool with which to restrain an idiot.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Lets just go back to beating them to death, shooting them and strangling them. That worked so well in the past.

Or perhaps Care would have our police ask nicely if the deranged idiot high on drugs would just kindly stop beating the other guy, pretty please?

 

[Diuretic]

Always remember the level of force in your response is dictated by the situation. Police officers use the force continuum, a scale of force alternatives, to mediate the level of response used in a given situation.

The force continuum is broken down into six broad levels. Each level is designed to be flexible as the need for force changes as the situation develops. It is common for the level of force to go from level two, to level three, and back again in a matter of seconds.

More at link - not a long read.

Force Continuum - Police Use of Force

 

[Old Rocks]

Any time you tangle with a police officer you are taking your life in your hands.
Any force could become lethal with just a bit of bad luck.
My advice, avoid fighting cops.

Holy crap, I have to give CryGlenCry and Rightwinger pos rep.

The humanity.

I'm holding you responsible for this travesty Robert.

I may be forced to neg rep you to maintain equilibrium and seal the tear in the time/space continuum.

 

[Old Rocks]

Never had trouble with the law, but have observed some that have. Being tazed is definately better than being shot. However, there is also a rather cavilear attitude among some officers about the use of tazeres.

What should be done is that the use of a tazer should be treated exactly as the use of a gun. You use the tazer, you go through all the inquiry and paperwork that you go through when you have had to use your service revolver.

Yes, eighteen and nineteen are still teenagers. Teenagers with the strenghth and more agility than most adults. And, like all teenagers, still pretty stupid and prone to doing idiotic actions. Should they die for those actions? Each case is differant.

 

[DiamondDave]

Let's see some statistics on how less suspects have been killed by cops because of the use of the taser vs a gun.... a little proof please.

TASER, lied to us about their tasers....and because of it, cops are using them, more freely than they should, to stop suspects that they could stop otherwise by cuffing them or restraining them under their normal standards that they had prior to tasers....cops have been given a false sense of security that tasers would not kill anyone...they felt better using them than their guns in certain circumstances when they knew the suspect did not deserve to die via a bullet....but now they are dying via the taser....that does not make them ANY LESS DEAD.

sINCE it has become evident that tasers DO KILL PEOPLE, the police need to rewrite their procedures on their use, so that they use them less frequently and under only certain conditions...


I do not want ANYONE DEAD because of their use, whether the person was an idiot or not...NOT IN MY NAME is my government going to kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Oh Jesus Christ

Harsh language can kill too, if it is enough of a shock/surprise and there are other mitigating circumstances?? You want to take yelling away from cops the minute someone keels over from being stressed out and yelled at??

A taser, like a bean-bag gun, is a LESS LETHAL form of suppression...

Kinda reminds me of a line by Robin Williams.... you need them to only have the power to say "Stop, or I'll say stop again!"???

 

[Charles Stucker]

Uh-huh.... Even when it's determined the death was actually caused by other means.

As I recall Texas A&M had (very close to) yearly deaths during the 70's and 80's in their Corp of Cadets. All involved freshman cadets dropping while "Doing PT" (euphemism for Hazing) and I never saw one which didn't get ruled "death due to congenital heart defect" or similar excuse.

I do not know if the Taser caused this death or not, but I certainly would be hesitant to believe an internal government investigation which cleared them of all wrongdoing. Can you imagine if every corporate CEO who got accused of violating SEC rules were allowed to conduct their own internal "investigation" to determine if they had done anything wrong? That would give results just as accurate as the tobacco companies "studies" which proved smoking did not cause cancer.

Just something to consider before blindly defending the police because the government coroner pronounces them innocent.

 

[manifold]

Everytime this happens everyone seems to exhibit a very emotional and visceral response, on both sides of the argument. And each time I ask if anyone can produce statistics on the frequency of taser deployments by law enforcement resulting in death. So far, zilch, bupkis, nada. I've even looked myself and have come up empty.

I submit that there must exist a tolerance threshold. Surely we shouldn't eliminate tazer use simply because it kills people in rare circumsances. It's only if it becomes more than "rare" that it's a problem. And what is that threshold? 1 in a 1,000? 1 in a million? Somewhere in between?

The first thing we need to understand is the probability of a taser deployment resulting in death. Then we can have a meaningful discussion about whether that is within tolerance.

 

[Charles Stucker]

The first thing we need to understand is the probability of a taser deployment resulting in death. Then we can have a meaningful discussion about whether that is within tolerance.

The two things we need to know are
Probability of death from taser use
Frequency of taser use
As a sample let us go with 1 death per Billion shocks.
Low enough that police can routinely use Tasers without fear of censure.
Rate of use then soars to 20 million cases a day, with multiple shocks routinely used so the number of shocks per day is actually 100 million. That's one death per 10 days, or 36 to 37 per year.
Not too bad. Replace 1 death per Billion with 1 per Million and then, in the sample above, we would get annual numbers (36500) comparable to Auto crash fatality rates (~40000)

If the taser replaces gunfire to the extent of reducing police shooting fatalities by 2000 a year then a 1 per billion rate might make taser use defensible, but a 1 per million would make it heinous.

My suspicion is that IF the rate is closer to 1 per million then that number would be kept suppressed to avoid just such an analysis.

 

[CryGlennCry]

The first thing we need to understand is the probability of a taser deployment resulting in death. Then we can have a meaningful discussion about whether that is within tolerance.

The two things we need to know are
Probability of death from taser use
Frequency of taser use
As a sample let us go with 1 death per Billion shocks.
Low enough that police can routinely use Tasers without fear of censure.
Rate of use then soars to 20 million cases a day, with multiple shocks routinely used so the number of shocks per day is actually 100 million. That's one death per 10 days, or 36 to 37 per year.
Not too bad. Replace 1 death per Billion with 1 per Million and then, in the sample above, we would get annual numbers (36500) comparable to Auto crash fatality rates (~40000)

If the taser replaces gunfire to the extent of reducing police shooting fatalities by 2000 a year then a 1 per billion rate might make taser use defensible, but a 1 per million would make it heinous.

My suspicion is that IF the rate is closer to 1 per million then that number would be kept suppressed to avoid just such an analysis.

Wow. I don't know where you got any of that?
It's like some kinda bizarro statistics.
36,000 tazer deaths a year? Huh??
One per Billion? as opposed to Million?

 

[Charles Stucker]

Wow. I don't know where you got any of that?
It's like some kinda bizarro statistics.

I got it from the words
"As a Sample"
Which is used identically to
"For Example"

To wit I used a set of possible sample statistics/estimates to show a plausible range for yearly deaths, though if one region has seen three deaths in the last few months (as suggested earlier in the thread) I am likely being far to low in the chance of death per use.
Is this Clear?
I can expand if you like

 

[Godboy]

Let's imagine for a moment that everybody that has ever been shot with a taser was shot with a .38 caliber police service pistol instead.
Feel better yet?

Depends where he got shot. Besides, the officer could of fired a warning shot. There is no warning shot with a taser.

What fucking world do you live in? Warning shot? Officers are never allowed to fire bullets in the air as a means to "warn" people. There are strict guide lines when it comes to discharging their weapons.