Teacher shortage?? Or surplus of stupid kids??

[Annie]

I also think that the student plays an important role when it comes to school. The kid has to "see" what he's doing. Not in the sense of, "I'm doing math." The kids have to realize that what they are learning is important- or at least pays off. Too many students see school as time they could be doing something else. The kids have want to learn if they are going to reach there full potential.

THAT is the teacher's job. To teach anything without providing context is just a lose.

 

[Mr.Conley]

THAT is the teacher's job. To teach anything without providing context is just a lose.

Yes and no. Teachers do need to make the students understand the importanac and benefits in what they're learning, but I think that they have to be open to the whole 'idea' of education. I think the only people who can tech that are the parents, the PreK-2nd grade teachers, and occasionally a few really good teachers to a few students in the laters years. They have to come into the clasroom ready to learn the material, and not to survive for another 45 minutes of class.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Yes and no. Teachers do need to make the students understand the importanac and benefits in what they're learning, but I think that they have to be open to the whole 'idea' of education. I think the only people who can tech that are the parents, the PreK-2nd grade teachers, and occasionally a few really good teachers to a few students in the laters years. They have to come into the clasroom ready to learn the material, and not to survive for another 45 minutes of class.

While teachers have a lot of responsibility for, well, teaching, it's the parents job to explain the importance of school to their children at a very young age. We told our daughter in 1st grade that people who don't do well in school end up doing jobs no one really wants to do; like cleaning public toilets. That was a great motivator for her. Whichever way works for your kids is fine, but very early on, while you have all the influence over them, you have to help them make the connection between school and life. You can't expect teachers do this for you.

 

[Mr.Conley]

While teachers have a lot of responsibility for, well, teaching, it's the parents job to explain the importance of school to their children at a very young age. We told our daughter in 1st grade that people who don't do well in school end up doing jobs no one really wants to do; like cleaning public toilets. That was a great motivator for her. Whichever way works for your kids is fine, but very early on, while you have all the influence over them, you have to help them make the connection between school and life. You can't expect teachers do this for you.

Exactly. It is the parent's responsibility, but I also think that early grade teachers can instill it as well.

 

[Gem]

I agree with much of what people are saying about parents and teachers needing to instill in children WHY learning is important in order to make it relevant and interesting to them...

However...

Schools seem to be pushing further and further away from several things that are going to hurt us in the long run:

Phonics: the concept that we can learn to read without first knowing and understanding the breakdown of sentences to words, words to letters, letters to sounds...is nonsense...yet some insist that we can do just that - and are then surprised when 5th graders test at 2nd grade reading levels.

Rote Learning: Educational research has proven time and time again that while yes, we do need to have a REASON to learn, we also need to do something again and again and again in order to "Get it." Why do you think that we remember phone numbers by saying them over and over and over again or devise some sort of neumonic? Yet we are getting further away from that - especially in math.

We now stress "WHY" this is important...and "Discovery Math" so rather than saying to a student "here is the formula for finding the area of a circle....find the area of these 25 circles of homework" we are saying "Gee...I traced a circle here...and I want to know how much space is in it...how could i figure that out...." and go from there guiding them in figuring out the area.

Now...both ways have merit...but my students are rarely if ever are assigned enough problems to actually give them the practice a student needs to internalize how to do something. I usually end up sending home extra work to students parents with notes that say "They might need to do these for extra practice." I just copy worksheets from OLD text books...that stressed practice.



I guess my point is that we can work our asses off to teach kids the "joy" of learning and put a reason to everything they learn...but unless we also make them work to internalize that knowledge...we are dropping one key aspect of education.

 

[Annie]

I agree with much of what people are saying about parents and teachers needing to instill in children WHY learning is important in order to make it relevant and interesting to them...

However...

Schools seem to be pushing further and further away from several things that are going to hurt us in the long run:

Phonics: the concept that we can learn to read without first knowing and understanding the breakdown of sentences to words, words to letters, letters to sounds...is nonsense...yet some insist that we can do just that - and are then surprised when 5th graders test at 2nd grade reading levels.

I agree. The whole 'whole language' approach has been a disaster. It has, IMO caused extreme levels of learning disabilities. It's dying a slow death.

Rote Learning: Educational research has proven time and time again that while yes, we do need to have a REASON to learn, we also need to do something again and again and again in order to "Get it." Why do you think that we remember phone numbers by saying them over and over and over again or devise some sort of neumonic? Yet we are getting further away from that - especially in math.

We now stress "WHY" this is important...and "Discovery Math" so rather than saying to a student "here is the formula for finding the area of a circle....find the area of these 25 circles of homework" we are saying "Gee...I traced a circle here...and I want to know how much space is in it...how could i figure that out...." and go from there guiding them in figuring out the area.

Now...both ways have merit...but my students are rarely if ever are assigned enough problems to actually give them the practice a student needs to internalize how to do something. I usually end up sending home extra work to students parents with notes that say "They might need to do these for extra practice." I just copy worksheets from OLD text books...that stressed practice.

for all the above. There are reasons to learn timelines, important figures in history, math facts, science facts, sounds of letter blends, etc.

I guess my point is that we can work our asses off to teach kids the "joy" of learning and put a reason to everything they learn...but unless we also make them work to internalize that knowledge...we are dropping one key aspect of education.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Just to clarify, my only point was that we (parents) must teach our children why it is important to learn and do well in school. I wasn't referring to how the actual subjects are taught. I leave that up to the experts like Kathianne and Gem.

 

[Bullypulpit]

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

Actually, the public school system is a smashing success. Each year, thousands of students graduate from high-school lacking even basic reasoning, reading, writing or computational skills. They are easily led to unquestioningly follow, or pay no attention to, whatever ill considered, ill gotten policy our elected leaders care to implement. An ill-informed and apathetic electorate is the best friend any government with an authoritarian bent could have.

The undercutting of the public education system in American by the GOP and its right wing-nut allies, has been a smashing success.

 

[Gem]

Bully, once again you have a sort of good idea but you bungle it.

If this were true, students would be resoundingly Republican, support the President unquestioningly. But we know this isn't the case.

They do not like the President. The younger demographic instinctually follows liberal agendas and ideals. They are not swayed by the government at all...instead they run for the party that tells them they can do whatever they want...as long as they recycle.

 

[Mr. P]

Bully, once again you have a sort of good idea but you bungle it.

If this were true, students would be resoundingly Republican, support the President unquestioningly. But we know this isn't the case.

They do not like the President. The younger demographic instinctually follows liberal agendas and ideals. They are not swayed by the government at all...instead they run for the party that tells them they can do whatever they want...as long as they recycle.

I agree Gem.
Did ya feel that 2x4 up-gainst the back of yer head, Bully? The womans swing is awesome!

 

[insein]

My Fiance (25) and my best friend (27, male) are teachers in the Philadelphia Public School System (doesnt get much worse than that as far as how to not let a liberal run your school system) and everything Gem said, I hear everynight when she comes home. To add to what Gem said, throw in:

- The Union strictly jumping in on working only till 3:09.
- Teachers being drug from their classroom by Police without notification and taken to the precinct for questioning during school hours for students being injured during fights that werent the teachers fault. (happened to my friend)
- Administration not suspending students because of the quota of absenteeism needing to be met.
-Administration not punishing students that threaten to kill the teacher, slash the teachers tires, destroy the teachers other possessions.
- The Union being a toothless tiger when a student threatens to kill the teacher, slash the teachers tires or destroy the teachers other possessions.
- Affirmative Action

Hows this for a story. The reason my fiance got a job in philly in February was because a Black Female teacher took 6 months sebaticle leave. This teacher didnt do any teaching or discipline for the 5 months she was there. She let the kids do whatever they wanted everyday she was there. The secratary and prep teachers never wanted to deal with that room because the kids were so bad. So my fiance came into one of the worst classrooms in the school. She managed to now make it through 4 months of hell. She would come home some nights crying her eyes out because of the day she had been through. She found out that most of this 6th grade class was 13 and 14 years old and there was one 15 year old to go with the 10 or so 11-12 year olds (you know normal 6th grade age). Any time a fight occurred, the principal and disciplinarian's (both black females) solution was to tell the kids, "Don't do that again." Then they'd send them back to class. Obviously it did jackshit. With all that said, she managed to get them into a manageable status. Prep teachers said that they noticed a difference even though they are still bad. Other teachers commented on how much theyve improved behavior-wise.

So now after she suffered through these 4 months of hell, whats her reward? An offer to stay at the school? No! why? Because shes white. In fact, this school has too many white teachers. 5 other white teachers are being removed from their positions this year in what is called a "forced transfer." OF these 5 teachers only 1 was a new teacher, same as my fiance. The other 4 had at least 2 to 7 years of experience at that school. The same thing happened to my friend since he is also white at a different school. How did they notify them? A letter left in their mailbox saying "You are being reallocated for next year." The School Districts Reason? They feel that the students will learn better with a more "racially balanced" atmosphere than the current one. Oh by the way, the Black Female teacher that my fiance replaced, that only has 4 years experience (less than most of the white teachers being removed), that took 6 months sebaticle leave this year, that apparently took 6 months sick leave last year, that took 6 months family leave the year before that and everytime was retained, and has already unnoficially informed certain teachers that she intends to take 6 months more of whatever the hell else she can think up leave this coming school year, she is being allowed to retain her job making over $50,000/yr. Why? Shes black and they need to fill the quota. Even though she wont be there the whole year, she suits their purposes.

Oh yea, i have full faith in liberals running the public school system now that ive seen what goes on through my friend and my fiance.

Here's an NBC10 news report on the BS teachers face daily.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9228680/detail.html
NBC10 News Report with footage of students doing all the nasty things you think dont happen in elementary school

http://www.nbc10.com/investigators/9363113/detail.html
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9254731/detail.html

Here's my favorite one.
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9270324/detail.html
Paul Valas' (the CEO of PSD) response when the reports of an 8 year old being beaten daily and not wanting to even sleep for fear of the kids.

"This isn't 'Mayberry RFD,'" said school district CEO Paul Vallas in an interview that aired on NBC 10 News Monday.

 

[insein]

making a new thread for above. Im so disgusted by it all.

 

[Annie]

My Fiance (25) and my best friend (27, male) are teachers in the Philadelphia Public School System (doesnt get much worse than that as far as how to not let a liberal run your school system) and everything Gem said, I hear everynight when she comes home. To add to what Gem said, throw in:

- The Union strictly jumping in on working only till 3:09.
- Teachers being drug from their classroom by Police without notification and taken to the precinct for questioning during school hours for students being injured during fights that werent the teachers fault. (happened to my friend)
- Administration not suspending students because of the quota of absenteeism needing to be met.
-Administration not punishing students that threaten to kill the teacher, slash the teachers tires, destroy the teachers other possessions.
- The Union being a toothless tiger when a student threatens to kill the teacher, slash the teachers tires or destroy the teachers other possessions.
- Affirmative Action

Hows this for a story. The reason my fiance got a job in philly in February was because a Black Female teacher took 6 months sebaticle leave. This teacher didnt do any teaching or discipline for the 5 months she was there. She let the kids do whatever they wanted everyday she was there. The secratary and prep teachers never wanted to deal with that room because the kids were so bad. So my fiance came into one of the worst classrooms in the school. She managed to now make it through 4 months of hell. She would come home some nights crying her eyes out because of the day she had been through. She found out that most of this 6th grade class was 13 and 14 years old and there was one 15 year old to go with the 10 or so 11-12 year olds (you know normal 6th grade age). Any time a fight occurred, the principal and disciplinarian's (both black females) solution was to tell the kids, "Don't do that again." Then they'd send them back to class. Obviously it did jackshit. With all that said, she managed to get them into a manageable status. Prep teachers said that they noticed a difference even though they are still bad. Other teachers commented on how much theyve improved behavior-wise.

So now after she suffered through these 4 months of hell, whats her reward? An offer to stay at the school? No! why? Because shes white. In fact, this school has too many white teachers. 5 other white teachers are being removed from their positions this year in what is called a "forced transfer." OF these 5 teachers only 1 was a new teacher, same as my fiance. The other 4 had at least 2 to 7 years of experience at that school. The same thing happened to my friend since he is also white at a different school. How did they notify them? A letter left in their mailbox saying "You are being reallocated for next year." The School Districts Reason? They feel that the students will learn better with a more "racially balanced" atmosphere than the current one. Oh by the way, the Black Female teacher that my fiance replaced, that only has 4 years experience (less than most of the white teachers being removed), that took 6 months sebaticle leave this year, that apparently took 6 months sick leave last year, that took 6 months family leave the year before that and everytime was retained, and has already unnoficially informed certain teachers that she intends to take 6 months more of whatever the hell else she can think up leave this coming school year, she is being allowed to retain her job making over $50,000/yr. Why? Shes black and they need to fill the quota. Even though she wont be there the whole year, she suits their purposes.

Oh yea, i have full faith in liberals running the public school system now that ive seen what goes on through my friend and my fiance.

Here's an NBC10 news report on the BS teachers face daily.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/9228680/detail.html
NBC10 News Report with footage of students doing all the nasty things you think dont happen in elementary school

http://www.nbc10.com/investigators/9363113/detail.html
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9254731/detail.html

Here's my favorite one.
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9270324/detail.html
Paul Valas' (the CEO of PSD) response when the reports of an 8 year old being beaten daily and not wanting to even sleep for fear of the kids.

I was going to comment on the shorter post, but in fact the problem in the above is that no other media got involved, as best as I can tell. Parents aren't complaining; wouldn't you at least think that in that class were some good kids, whose parents noted the changes?

Makes me so mad too!

 

[insein]

I was going to comment on the shorter post, but in fact the problem in the above is that no other media got involved, as best as I can tell. Parents aren't complaining; wouldn't you at least think that in that class were some good kids, whose parents noted the changes?

Makes me so mad too!

There in lies the problem. Of her 28 students, only 2 or 3 parents give a damn. Most just send there kids to school so they dont have to be bothered. They havent learned anything in school since June 1st when grades were due yet they continue to goto school till tommorrow. All the kids are there every day. Oh and big suprise, she knows for a fact that 26 of the 28 families are either divorced or never got married in the first place. Parents did note changes when she came in. The change was that she actually called them about bad behavoir. The previous teacher didnt do ANYTHING, so the parents assumed everything was ok because their kids are pathological liars. At first i felt bad thinking these kids are ruining their one opportunity. Some refuse to take tests because the teacher is white. So she gives them F's. The school then informs her at the end of the year (May)that no student can be given a grade below 60 unless a failure notice was sent home in February. So some students that should be failing and sent to summer school pass with D's despite not doing a damn thing all year. Then they accuse her of being racist and some of their parents believe the kids. Its just a volatile atmosphere and im glad she wont be going back next year. Hopefully she finds a suburban school to get into even though its extremely hard to break into around here.

 

[Unkotare]

As someone "in the trenches" I can tell you first hand that I have never met a teacher who left education due to low salaries.

Teachers are leaving education because of lack of respect, fear of lawsuits, and increasingly dumbed-down curriculum that makes them feel like they are part of the system of lowering standards that is making our nation fall further and further behind the competition.

To give you an example of what I mean - let me share with you some of the experiences I had this year:

- A parent taking my hand and saying "I think you're terrific. What you've done with my son this year has been amazing. Seriously, what are you doing here? With two master's degrees you need to get the hell out of here and get yourself into a real job that pays you something worthwhile. Educational law would be great and you'd still be "in the field."

- A 31 year veteran teacher stopping by my room daily to let me know that things were only getting worse and I should "get out while I still can."

- A parent threatening to sue me because I told him that since his 8th grader was reading on a 4th grade level I really couldn't recommend him for French instead of the Reading Strategies course designed to help him pass the PA Achievement tests.

- Parents arguing with me about why their child's special education paperwork can't read "Student will receive no grade lower than an 80%"

- Looking for old 4th and 5th grade text books in the supply closet to work with my students on concepts they are now being taught in 7th and 8th grade

I could go on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love teaching. I'm going back for more next year.

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, or with their salary...but rather with our nation's increasing lack of respect for education.

In the past...you could call a parent when a child misbehaved and have an ally...now, you avoid calling the parent for fear of lawsuit. In the past, you could call a parent and say "You son isn't doing his homework," and they would do something about it. Now, they tell you to get off their kid's back, that homework is dumb anyway...that they read an article about a kid who didn't do homework and the school let him pass...how they never did homework and they were fine.

As long as we continue to be a nation that tells parents we will educate their children and they have no responsibility over it...as long as we allow students to fail or score abysmally with no consequences...as long as we allow teachers to be fired because its easier to hire another teacher than it is to fight a lawsuit...you will have teachers burning out and quitting.

For the most part, teachers are highly educated people with a firm committment to instilling a love of learning in young people. To chase them away from that dream takes a lot...and we should be very concerned about how many people are being chased away.

.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

How the hell can the United States have a teacher shortage?? THe news report the other night said that US school districts are flying over to the Phillipines to hire school teachers.. Why??

You mean to tell me that we pay our teachers so little that they won't teach???
Or do we dumb down public school students so much that they can't be taught to teach???

This country is just sinking lower, and lower everyday. It is no wonder that the little tyrant countries thumb their noses at us,, their people are teaching our kids!:bang3

Filling The Classroom Void

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

How many other jobs can you start in the 30s that eventually require a Master's degree, 50-plus hour work weeks, horrible working conditions, and constant abuse from students and parents?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

....

But several of my collegues are not. And it has NOTHING to do with the union, ...

Of course it does. Who do you think promoted the dumbing down and started this ball rolling in the first place? The NEA, with help from the U.S. Department of Education?

Everything else you said, I agree with. Sadly this is the result of taking policy out of the local hands and placing it nationally. IMO.

BTW...I always started my first phone call to a teacher like this, ”Hello Ms. Smith, this is Mr. P, I'm not going to scream and holler at you", it always got a chuckle and a "Thank You very much, that will be a change".

Sir, I hereby charge you with parroting a bald-faced lie.

There is no dumbing down in schools except that the students being provided to the teachers are mostly juvenile delinquents with no self-discipline and absolutely no desire to succeed.

If what you claimed were true, would not states without unions be so much better than those who have teacher's unions? The US Department of Education has no impact on myself or my students. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes and no. Teachers do need to make the students understand the importanac and benefits in what they're learning, but I think that they have to be open to the whole 'idea' of education. I think the only people who can tech that are the parents, the PreK-2nd grade teachers, and occasionally a few really good teachers to a few students in the laters years. They have to come into the clasroom ready to learn the material, and not to survive for another 45 minutes of class.

While teachers have a lot of responsibility for, well, teaching, it's the parents job to explain the importance of school to their children at a very young age. We told our daughter in 1st grade that people who don't do well in school end up doing jobs no one really wants to do; like cleaning public toilets. That was a great motivator for her. Whichever way works for your kids is fine, but very early on, while you have all the influence over them, you have to help them make the connection between school and life. You can't expect teachers do this for you.

The only problem is when you have students without the drive and determination to do anything in life. I have students ask me every day, "When am I going to use this?", and I bite my tongue because I want to say that as a dope dealer you might want to learn some math. They have no concept of how this information will impact their lives because Mom works as a cashier at Walmart and Dad drives a truck, that is assuming they even know who Dad is.

 

[Divine Wind]

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

The First Amendment includes freedom of association. What's the problem?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No, the starting wage around here is in the 30s, repeat after me UNIONS, UNIONS, UNIONS!!!

Actually, the public school system is a smashing success. Each year, thousands of students graduate from high-school lacking even basic reasoning, reading, writing or computational skills. They are easily led to unquestioningly follow, or pay no attention to, whatever ill considered, ill gotten policy our elected leaders care to implement. An ill-informed and apathetic electorate is the best friend any government with an authoritarian bent could have.

The undercutting of the public education system in American by the GOP and its right wing-nut allies, has been a smashing success.

Bull manure.