Tax the Rich: Fix Jobs and Deficits

[grunt11b]

So no deficit reduction, keep spending trillions more then we have and to help offset it steal the money from those you think have to much. Thanks for proving the point of just how brain damaged you are.

Explain again how taking MORE percentage wise from people that happen to have more then you is A) Justified under the Constitution, B) reasonable behavior for a Government to do, And C) why you think those with more should pay a higher percentage based on some sense of fair play and reasonable conscious.

If someone twice your size and half your age beats you senseless and transfers all the money in your pockets into his, will you bleat "life ain't fair" from your hospital bed?

Noones ever beat my ass in a fight, and even if they did, I would not go cry to mommy "Government" to fix that problem, I would make sure it didn't happen again through my own means.

The richest 1% of Americans earned about 9% of annual US income in 1979.
They earn over 20% today and control about 40% of national wealth.
And they have seen their "fair share" of both increase since 2008.

It's the America Dream, that's what people come here for, if progressives like yourself take that away, then why would it even be worth coming here? If you like the progressive style of government, move to France, we'll keep our style, and modify it back to the constitution.

I don't believe the rich have earned all that money.
They have bribed politicians to lower their tax rates to acquire some of it.
They have manipulated the Federal Reserve and commodity markets for some of it.
And they've spiked unemployment to levels unseen in generations for some of it.

It doesn't matter what you believe, change your tampon and buckle down and earn money, stop looking to government for it.

This is a damn war.
Why are you afraid to fight back?

Because we don't believe in fighting a war against honest Americans who create jobs and help grow the economy like you and berry and the rest of the communists in this country do. Now I agree that there are some crooked millionaires out there, but they make up the minority in the wealthy class, that's no excuse to punish all wealthy people by taking their money and giving it to the lazy and down trodden.

 

[martybegan]

If the name callers would simply shut up and listen, maybe a rational debate would break out.

Taxation is part of the problem, but the greatest problem in need of solution is ignorance. When a poster screams "communist" as a counterpoint to any idea which challenges her/his world view, threads devolve into name calling spats.

It makes no sense to contiue to pay interest on our debt (how many of you tea party conservatives carry debt on your credit cards?). The US Government needs to reduce debt and the only way to reduce debt is to raise revenue and pay it off.

Borrowing to pay interst is STUPID.

Deficit spending must be reduced. It makes no sense not to borrow to repair/replace the roof which risks the entire house. So, it all comes down to priorites.

Cutting taxes is stupid, it reduces revenue and we continue to pay interest on the debt and not fix the roof.

Hiring the unemployed to repair the roof stimulates the economy. The roofer buys lunch, pays his rent, and maybe goes to a movie on Saturday. The deli which sells him the sandwhich benefits, the landlord too and so does the owner of the movie house and the kid who sells the ticket and the other kid who sells the popcorn.

The vendor who sells the popcorn to the theatre owner benefits too. And so the economy goes.

To borrow a pharase, it really is that simple.

its funny that you use the lower rungs of trickle down economics, without really knowing it. One could start at the yacht a rich person buys, or the rediculous avant garde art piece they buy from the artist of the month, and trickle down the economic benefits.

 

[boedicca]

Of course I disagree. Not on defict spending, on the hyperbole of it being worse (five times) when done by President Obama. You see Bush paid for a war of choice, which gained us nothing but misery; Obama added to the deficit some benefits, jobless worked, supplier supplied, pot holes filled and roads widened. We gained some benefit but not enough.

The not enough is the problem, as I posted and you ignored, people spent when they have money in their pocket. When they don't deli's close, malls close, hotels close and more people's pockets are empty.

I didn't ignore it. It's meaningless to me personally. I don't live beyond my means on credit cards.

And if you think $1.6T deficits are the equivalent of $300B deficits, you have a serious perception issues.

Myopia is a serious perception problem, the anology of the roof has not been refuted. Please explain how your perception of the problems we face can offer solutions. Noting seems to be trickling down, retail stores close, small shops are shuttered and unemplyment is a serous problem.

When Government spending increases by 25% in real dollar terms in three years, that crushes the private sector.

When government continues to threaten the private sector with tax increases which makes it impossible to develop a reasonable business plan, that stifles economic growth.

When unelected bureaucrats are able to do an end run around The Constitution by making up laws via regulations which favor some companies at the expense of their competition, that stifles economic growth.

We don't have an undertaxed and underregulated problem; we have a Government That Is Too Big To Succeed problem.

 

[kwc57]

It's inarguable that in order to fix the fiscal mess, sacrifices have to be made.

It's reasonable and sensible that the sacrifice should be shared.

The problem with the conservative consensus is that the wealthy should be exempted from sharing the sacrifice.

Let the conservatives here tell us what the wealthy's share of the necessary sacrifice should be...

...they will either not answer, or claim that the wealthy shouldn't sacrifice anything.

THAT is class warfare.

Close to 50% of non-wealthy Americans pay NO taxes. Tell me, when do they start sharing in the sacrifice?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I call shenanigans. What government services does somebody who pays $500,000 per year in taxes receive that are more valuable than what is received by somebody who pays no taxes?

Access and influence. The former has no portal to power, the latter a private jet.

When people live on government handouts paid for by others' taxes, their share of influence and power is disproportional to their level of effort.

Now, explain how somebody making $250,000 per year has all that Access and Influence in their private jets, because that is the current target for tax increases. And once they are plucked, the level is sure to fall to $100,000.

There aren't enough Truly Wealthy to fund your leftwing moonbat Big Government programs.

Someone making $250,000 per year has more influence than the homeless in your example. Of course you once again ignore that I used the example of millionaires and billionaires; I'm beginning to believe your defense of your opinions is more important to you than an honest debate on the merits of two widley different means of attacking our nations economic woes.

 

[grunt11b]

So no deficit reduction, keep spending trillions more then we have and to help offset it steal the money from those you think have to much. Thanks for proving the point of just how brain damaged you are.

Explain again how taking MORE percentage wise from people that happen to have more then you is A) Justified under the Constitution, B) reasonable behavior for a Government to do, And C) why you think those with more should pay a higher percentage based on some sense of fair play and reasonable conscious.

If someone twice your size and half your age beats you senseless and transfers all the money in your pockets into his, will you bleat "life ain't fair" from your hospital bed?

The richest 1% of Americans earned about 9% of annual US income in 1979.
They earn over 20% today and control about 40% of national wealth.
And they have seen their "fair share" of both increase since 2008.

I don't believe the rich have earned all that money.
They have bribed politicians to lower their tax rates to acquire some of it.
They have manipulated the Federal Reserve and commodity markets for some of it.
And they've spiked unemployment to levels unseen in generations for some of it.

This is a damn war.
Why are you afraid to fight back?

Well, if you DON'T BELIEVE the rich have EARNED all that money, you could call Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and a few others who are the RICHEST Democrat Representatives, AND ASK THEM.
You are showing your Liberal Red my dear.

Exactly, I seen the other day on the news where Pelosis net worth increased 60% in the last 6 years, 60%!!!! Now who is the crooked ass and who isn't?
Of course when they say tax the wealthy they dont mean themselves, they mean the non-elites.

 

[grunt11b]

It's SCARY to think we have people in this country who FEEL THIS WAY.

You couldn't get MORE DISGUSTING for calling to STEAL other people's money by TAXATION to use it for your own use.

but then again, this piece of crap posting came from the so called, "PROGRESSIVE (pretty name for COMMIE)" website, common dreams..

common dreams my ass..

What part of equal scares you most?

In 1979 when the richest 1% of Americans controlled 9% of US income they paid taxes at a rate of 70%. Today they pay taxes at half that rate EXCEPT when they pay at a 15% capital gains rate.

It's REALLY scary that slaves like you don't see how the rich have bribed government to lower their tax rates over the last 40 years.

Get some guts.
Fight back.
Fascist.

If you believe in equal, then you surely must believe that you are equally able to get out and earn that kind of money right? And don't be fooled, there is nothing equal to stealing what one person earned while turning a blind eye to another person.

 

[grunt11b]

If someone twice your size and half your age beats you senseless and transfers all the money in your pockets into his, will you bleat "life ain't fair" from your hospital bed?

The richest 1% of Americans earned about 9% of annual US income in 1979.
They earn over 20% today and control about 40% of national wealth.
And they have seen their "fair share" of both increase since 2008.

I don't believe the rich have earned all that money.
They have bribed politicians to lower their tax rates to acquire some of it.
They have manipulated the Federal Reserve and commodity markets for some of it.
And they've spiked unemployment to levels unseen in generations for some of it.

This is a damn war.
Why are you afraid to fight back?

Well, if you DON'T BELIEVE the rich have EARNED all that money, you could call Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and a few others who are the RICHEST Democrat Representatives, AND ASK THEM.
You are showing your Liberal Red my dear.

From the OP:

"The rich have the money because Republicans AND Democrats threw money at Wall Street banks and hedge funds..."

There is no shortage of millionaires in the US Congress.
On both sides of the aisle.

My solution is to FLUSH Republicans AND Democrats from DC by the hundreds (starting in the White House) in November of 2012.

What's yours?

So how does flushing politicians from washington and taxing the ass off of a business owner who makes millions a year the same thing?

 

[martybegan]

Access and influence. The former has no portal to power, the latter a private jet.

When people live on government handouts paid for by others' taxes, their share of influence and power is disproportional to their level of effort.

Now, explain how somebody making $250,000 per year has all that Access and Influence in their private jets, because that is the current target for tax increases. And once they are plucked, the level is sure to fall to $100,000.

There aren't enough Truly Wealthy to fund your leftwing moonbat Big Government programs.

Someone making $250,000 per year has more influence than the homeless in your example. Of course you once again ignore that I used the example of millionaires and billionaires; I'm beginning to believe your defense of your opinions is more important to you than an honest debate on the merits of two widley different means of attacking our nations economic woes.

This still goes away from the original premise of taxation, which is to fund the government, not to have people pay for more access, or because they have a nicer car than you, or because you think some poor people can use the money more than the "rich" person can.

 

[grunt11b]

If someone twice your size and half your age beats you senseless and transfers all the money in your pockets into his, will you bleat "life ain't fair" from your hospital bed?

The richest 1% of Americans earned about 9% of annual US income in 1979.
They earn over 20% today and control about 40% of national wealth.
And they have seen their "fair share" of both increase since 2008.

I don't believe the rich have earned all that money.
They have bribed politicians to lower their tax rates to acquire some of it.
They have manipulated the Federal Reserve and commodity markets for some of it.
And they've spiked unemployment to levels unseen in generations for some of it.

This is a damn war.
Why are you afraid to fight back?

If its a war, why dont you do the honorable thing and get a gun and take the money you think is yours, instead of being a chickenshit coward and using the government to get it ?

Go to the fucking barracades for it, I dare you.

Guns are for pussies.
Possibly that explains your suggestion?

Why would you think one more gun in a country with more guns than citizens is likely to improve the situation?

It will be the rich who hire killers when enough of their political handmaidens are FLUSHED from government.

Which side will you fight on?

The Patriots side, and through the ballot by electing more Tea Party members in.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If the name callers would simply shut up and listen, maybe a rational debate would break out.

Taxation is part of the problem, but the greatest problem in need of solution is ignorance. When a poster screams "communist" as a counterpoint to any idea which challenges her/his world view, threads devolve into name calling spats.

It makes no sense to contiue to pay interest on our debt (how many of you tea party conservatives carry debt on your credit cards?). The US Government needs to reduce debt and the only way to reduce debt is to raise revenue and pay it off.

Borrowing to pay interst is STUPID.

Deficit spending must be reduced. It makes no sense not to borrow to repair/replace the roof which risks the entire house. So, it all comes down to priorites.

Cutting taxes is stupid, it reduces revenue and we continue to pay interest on the debt and not fix the roof.

Hiring the unemployed to repair the roof stimulates the economy. The roofer buys lunch, pays his rent, and maybe goes to a movie on Saturday. The deli which sells him the sandwhich benefits, the landlord too and so does the owner of the movie house and the kid who sells the ticket and the other kid who sells the popcorn.

The vendor who sells the popcorn to the theatre owner benefits too. And so the economy goes.

To borrow a pharase, it really is that simple.

its funny that you use the lower rungs of trickle down economics, without really knowing it. One could start at the yacht a rich person buys, or the rediculous avant garde art piece they buy from the artist of the month, and trickle down the economic benefits.

One could, but what would that prove? How many Yachts are sold a month? And even if the seller earns a nice commission, how many deli sandwhiches will s/he eat, shoes, hats, jackets and ties purchased from the mall? More than the worker on the new freeway on ramp?

Maybe the Yacht broker will buy that Art, maybe from a French dealer; don't suggest his profit will trickle down and benefit the economy as 100 workers buying 100 deli sandwhiches a day.

 

[grunt11b]

It's inarguable that in order to fix the fiscal mess, sacrifices have to be made.

Yes, they should, but it needs to start at the entitlement recipients, not people who earned what they have.

It's reasonable and sensible that the sacrifice should be shared.

It's neither reasonable nor sensible for someone to give up anything that they earned for failed fiscal policies of government. Sorry, you're wrong again.

Let the conservatives here tell us what the wealthy's share of the necessary sacrifice should be...

Again, in order to sacrifice one must know why they are sacrificing. And if is to cover for loose fiscal policy by government, noone who has actually earned their money should have to sacrifice anything, if anyone does, it would be the entitlement class who voted in politicians that created these monstrosity programs who feed the lazy with their hands out wanting more,more,more.

...they will either not answer, or claim that the wealthy shouldn't sacrifice anything.

THAT is class warfare.

One form of Class warfare is when you pit the entitlement class against the provider class, by taxing one at a higher rate then the other, by taking ones profits and giving it to the other "Welfare", which is exactly what the left have been doing for almost 100 years now.
It's a shame that you have no idea what you are talking about, because you do speak articulately and could possibly be fun to debate with.

 

[grunt11b]

I have no problem with rich folks.

Wish we had a whole slew more of em.

Since they pay around 60% of the Fed taxes in this country, the more the merrier in my book.

As for fairness, well we have 50% of the folks in this country who pay no Fed taxes whatsoever.

Let let them suck it up and contribute to the cause. Fair is far after all and fair seems to be the word of the day for some folks.

Exactly, let those working under the table pay their fair share in taxes, let the entitlement class give up a percentage of their entitlements to cover for their fair share also. I agree 100%, but you'll not hear the left on here agree with that, because that would be unfair to their voting block.

 

[grunt11b]

From the OP:

"The rich have the money because Republicans AND Democrats threw money at Wall Street banks and hedge funds..."

There is no shortage of millionaires in the US Congress.
On both sides of the aisle.

My solution is to FLUSH Republicans AND Democrats from DC by the hundreds (starting in the White House) in November of 2012.

What's yours?

And REPLACE them with what? More Communist? you can't get any more Commies than what you already have in the white house and in the DEMOCRAT party. so please stop blowing smoke up our asses about what YOUR solution would be..

How many communists have you counted among Libertarians?

Do you have any idea how clueless you sound when calling Obama a socialist?

How many fucking bankers has he thrown in prison?

Not as many as he is buddied up to, also, can you name any of the ones he has thrown in prison? And I would be willing to bet that they did not vote for him and probably sided against him on issues.

 

[grunt11b]

Guns are for pussies.
Possibly that explains your suggestion?

Why would you think one more gun in a country with more guns than citizens is likely to improve the situation?

It will be the rich who hire killers when enough of their political handmaidens are FLUSHED from government.

Which side will you fight on?

Whatever side your statist totalitarian side isnt on.

Again, you want to use the goverment to take money from people that you believe do not derserve it. Not for any noble purposes, but out of envy, greed and a basic hatred for any person with more than you. All I am asking is that you do it the honorable way, and rob them.

From the dawn of "civilization" all governments have socialized cost and privatized profit.
You've just lived through the greatest transfer of private debt into public debt in history.
I calling for government to return what the rich have stolen.
Are you saying the rich deserve more of what they haven't earned?

Typical liberal, calling on government. That is the problem in this country, you bums call on government to do your bidding while the rest of us do our own bidding.

 

[martybegan]

If the name callers would simply shut up and listen, maybe a rational debate would break out.

Taxation is part of the problem, but the greatest problem in need of solution is ignorance. When a poster screams "communist" as a counterpoint to any idea which challenges her/his world view, threads devolve into name calling spats.

It makes no sense to contiue to pay interest on our debt (how many of you tea party conservatives carry debt on your credit cards?). The US Government needs to reduce debt and the only way to reduce debt is to raise revenue and pay it off.

Borrowing to pay interst is STUPID.

Deficit spending must be reduced. It makes no sense not to borrow to repair/replace the roof which risks the entire house. So, it all comes down to priorites.

Cutting taxes is stupid, it reduces revenue and we continue to pay interest on the debt and not fix the roof.

Hiring the unemployed to repair the roof stimulates the economy. The roofer buys lunch, pays his rent, and maybe goes to a movie on Saturday. The deli which sells him the sandwhich benefits, the landlord too and so does the owner of the movie house and the kid who sells the ticket and the other kid who sells the popcorn.

The vendor who sells the popcorn to the theatre owner benefits too. And so the economy goes.

To borrow a pharase, it really is that simple.

its funny that you use the lower rungs of trickle down economics, without really knowing it. One could start at the yacht a rich person buys, or the rediculous avant garde art piece they buy from the artist of the month, and trickle down the economic benefits.

One could, but what would that prove? How many Yachts are sold a month? And even if the seller earns a nice commission, how many deli sandwhiches will s/he eat, shoes, hats, jackets and ties purchased from the mall? More than the worker on the new freeway on ramp?

Maybe the Yacht broker will buy that Art, maybe from a French dealer; don't suggest his profit will trickle down and benefit the economy as 100 workers buying 100 deli sandwhiches a day.

its not the details, its the basic premise. For years liberals have poo-poohed trickle down economics, but here, you use it as an example. The only difference is where the chain starts and who starts it.

And when it comes to yacht building, you have carpenters, electricians, plumbers, dockworkers, maritime engineers. etc. not just the boss who owns the yacht company. Plus you have is office staff, his suppliers, all these people making money.

And THATS where your deli sandwiches come in.

 

[grunt11b]

If the name callers would simply shut up and listen, maybe a rational debate would break out.

Taxation is part of the problem, but the greatest problem in need of solution is ignorance. When a poster screams "communist" as a counterpoint to any idea which challenges her/his world view, threads devolve into name calling spats.

It makes no sense to contiue to pay interest on our debt (how many of you tea party conservatives carry debt on your credit cards?). The US Government needs to reduce debt and the only way to reduce debt is to raise revenue and pay it off.

I dont carry a credit card, I pay cash, and my finances are in order because of that.

Borrowing to pay interst is STUPID.

Not if by defaulting you collapse an entire economy.

Deficit spending must be reduced. It makes no sense not to borrow to repair/replace the roof which risks the entire house. So, it all comes down to priorities.

Cutting taxes is stupid, it reduces revenue and we continue to pay interest on the debt and not fix the roof.

No, it's not. Cutting taxes allows the people to have more money in their pockets which allows them to spend more at the store which helps to boost the economy, when more stores are taking in more money they increase the size of the store and business and hire more employees who in return make more money and spend more on the economy which boosts the economy even further.

Hiring the unemployed to repair the roof stimulates the economy. The roofer buys lunch, pays his rent, and maybe goes to a movie on Saturday. The deli which sells him the sandwhich benefits, the landlord too and so does the owner of the movie house and the kid who sells the ticket and the other kid who sells the popcorn.The vendor who sells the popcorn to the theatre owner benefits too. And so the economy goes.

It's the same concept as I stated above, but you disagreed with tax cuts.



To borrow a pharase, it really is that simple.

Yes, it really is, too bad too many just don't get it do they?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Best joke thread EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[editec]

The problem is so much more complex than merely the rich have too much and the poor not enough, and the solutions to this development will take so much more than merely taxing the rich, that this sort of post (while certainly welcomed by the board partisans) really serves to DISINFORM more than to inform.

Ask yourselves WHY capital has gained do much while the bottom 80% or so is losing ground.

TAXATION is a very small part of the real problem.



'

I don't mean to understate the complexity of a solution to this problem.
That doesn't mean the problem isn't as simple as it is ancient:

"Baudelaire quipped that the devil wins at the point where he manages convince the world that he doesn’t exist.

"Today’s financial elites will win the class war at the point where voters believe it doesn’t exist – and believe that Obama is trying to help them rather than shepherd them into debt peonage as the economy settles into debt deflation."

The Class War doesn't exist for many of these fools, ed.
Who wins?

Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal

Look I'm a po' boy from Pa, myself, so I fully appreciate your frustration with the nonstop ass-sucking bsullshit the TOOLS on this board post.

But calling for a CLASS WAR serves less than no good purpose, it virtually insures that nothing REAL will ever get done.

Not every wealthy person is in on the SCAM, and curely you must know that not every non-wealthy person is innocent.

The GUILTY have names and their crimes (which are not crimes since we created a system that allowed them to rape this nation) need to be explained and identified.

The teaming masses are never going to rise up, and if they did?

They're kill each other and NOT the people who are responsible for this mess.

Despite all the TROLLING nonsense you read on this board, these so called conservatives are NOT representative of you neighbors or for that matter most Americans.

These clueless fucks are mostly just nasty little trolls, amigo.

STop wasting your time trying to engage people that you KNOW aren't for real.

 

[Wiseacre]

I love it, let's raise taxes on the rich and get maybe 70 billion a year in more revenue. Yeah, but what'll that do to a 1.6 trillion deficit? So we get to 1.53 trillion, woohoo!

And that's not counting the impact on the economy through a tax hike on the job creators, but hell, at least it'll be more fair.