Tax Policy Center delivers haymaker to 9 - 9 - 9

[Skull Pilot]

Whoa. See what some of us were trying to tell you?


Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes on 84 Percent


"Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.


The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis...."

Read more: Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes On 84 Percent | Fox News

Washington think tank pointing out dimwit talking points, really? Believability is no where in sight on this post, as usual.

Then calculate your own taxes under Cain's plan and tell us how your own taxes would change.

Of course you'll have to tell us roughly what you earn and how many dependents you have, so we can see how you did your calculation.

In fact, all of you should do this. You don't have to post it, but be honest with yourself. I calculated mine -

I would break even, approximately, on a middle income type salary, BUT, I have zero dependents and NONE of the current deductions that those with dependents have,

all of which disappear under the Cain plan.

Last yr our AGI was 215K

My federal tax rate worked out to 22% So I paid 47,300 in federal income taxes. We have no dependents.

Under 999 I would pay 19,350 for a savings of 27,950. Even with the federal sales tax I would bet I would pay less under Cain's plan because I am not a huge spender.

So you can say I'm all in favor of a lower flat tax.

 

[Old Rocks]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Oh yeah, let's all cheer for more foreclosures, for letting someone that has lost his job and is without healthcare just die for lack of care. And, if you are working for minimum wages, paying for a medical condition, you should still pay taxes at the same rate as Bill Gates.

You dumb fucks are coming across exactly as the compassionate 'Conservatives' that you are.

 

[rightwinger]

In watching Cain last night, why can't he just be honest and say..

Yes, the sales tax will be on top of the sales tax you now pay
Yes, poor and middle class families will pay more, the wealthy will pay less

It is blatantly obvious

 

[Jarhead]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Oh yeah, let's all cheer for more foreclosures, for letting someone that has lost his job and is without healthcare just die for lack of care. And, if you are working for minimum wages, paying for a medical condition, you should still pay taxes at the same rate as Bill Gates.

You dumb fucks are coming across exactly as the compassionate 'Conservatives' that you are.

you see...you need to take the epitomy from both ends of the spectrum to make your point..anmd yes, it is a valid point.

But in all fairness...a conservative sees it as "equal for all" as it pertains to opportunity and as it pertains to giving back...and that is what we wish to preserve.

Taking from the rich to give to the poor is certainly a sound plan...and most certainly will help the poor with little affect on the rich.

But you will find it will decrease the dsesire to "make it rich" for all of us.

And when you lose that drive, we all beciome robots living in cookie cutter box houses.....pretty much going through the motions.

Now, yes, you can certainly punch holes in what I say as I went with the most simple explanation....but the bottom line is....equal for all.....and whewn you have equal for all, not all will capitalize on it....but they could if they want to.

 

[Twofox]

The straw pony that everyone keeps coming up with is: What will this do to local and state taxes? Then they ignore the response. So are they just stupid, or are they trying to obfuscate so as not to understand? I think the latter.

State and local taxes are unaffected no matter what you do with federal taxes. Those are up to the local and state governments! Get it? Local and state governments set their own tax rates and what the fed does with taxes is a whole other set of taxes. One does not affect the other.

From what I've read and heard so far, this 9-9-9 plan has some merit. Especially if he's open to tweaking it to make it really work as intended. I also support either a flat tax or a fair tax. No matter what you do, the current tax bureaucracy gets hammered, which is why so many on both sides are fighting tooth an nail against any of it.

Anything you do to inject more capital into the economy helps, it just depends on where that money comes from that affects the long term.

 

[Jarhead]

In watching Cain last night, why can't he just be honest and say..

Yes, the sales tax will be on top of the sales tax you now pay
Yes, poor and middle class families will pay more, the wealthy will pay less

It is blatantly obvious

let me make it easy for you....

Your question:

In watching Cain last night, why can't he just be honest and say..

Yes, the sales tax will be on top of the sales tax you now pay
Yes, poor and middle class families will pay more, the wealthy will pay less

And your answer:

Because It is blatantly obvious

You answered your question in your question.

 

[DiamondDave]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Oh yeah, let's all cheer for more foreclosures, for letting someone that has lost his job and is without healthcare just die for lack of care. And, if you are working for minimum wages, paying for a medical condition, you should still pay taxes at the same rate as Bill Gates.

You dumb fucks are coming across exactly as the compassionate 'Conservatives' that you are.

Yeah.. let's all applaud unequal treatment by government under law...

You are a citizen, the same as Bill Gates, the same as the crack addict, and the same as the machine fitter making 40 an hour...

What's next... high sales tax rates based on income or what you want to get from others??

Well.. you'll cheer that... as long as it benefits you... then whine and complain when it does not benefit you

 

[Oddball]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Oh yeah, let's all cheer for more foreclosures, for letting someone that has lost his job and is without healthcare just die for lack of care. And, if you are working for minimum wages, paying for a medical condition, you should still pay taxes at the same rate as Bill Gates.

You dumb fucks are coming across exactly as the compassionate 'Conservatives' that you are.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Washington think tank pointing out dimwit talking points, really? Believability is no where in sight on this post, as usual.

Then calculate your own taxes under Cain's plan and tell us how your own taxes would change.

Of course you'll have to tell us roughly what you earn and how many dependents you have, so we can see how you did your calculation.

In fact, all of you should do this. You don't have to post it, but be honest with yourself. I calculated mine -

I would break even, approximately, on a middle income type salary, BUT, I have zero dependents and NONE of the current deductions that those with dependents have,

all of which disappear under the Cain plan.

Last yr our AGI was 215K

My federal tax rate worked out to 22% So I paid 47,300 in federal income taxes. We have no dependents.

Under 999 I would pay 19,350 for a savings of 27,950. Even with the federal sales tax I would bet I would pay less under Cain's plan because I am not a huge spender.

So you can say I'm all in favor of a lower flat tax.

The 9% comes off your gross minus your payroll tax plus the sales tax based on how much you'd estimate you'd spend on taxable goods and services.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Setting aside ALL arguments about the merits of the plan,

if you're Cain, and your opponent(s) are able to pin a tax increase for 80% of Americans from the bottom up on your tax plan,

how can you not be dead politically?

 

[Oddball]

Setting aside ALL arguments about the merits of the plan,

if you're Cain, and your opponent(s) are able to pin a tax increase for 80% of Americans from the bottom up on your tax plan,

how can you not be dead politically?

Won't really raise taxes on anyone....I'll just get rid of the shell game that makes those on the lower end of the earnings scale believe that they pay little to nothing.

Of course, if the sainted poooooooor are stuck with a huge tax bill, it'll hip them to the fact that there really isn't any free lunch....Can't have that happening, can we?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Oh yeah, let's all cheer for more foreclosures, for letting someone that has lost his job and is without healthcare just die for lack of care. And, if you are working for minimum wages, paying for a medical condition, you should still pay taxes at the same rate as Bill Gates.

You dumb fucks are coming across exactly as the compassionate 'Conservatives' that you are.

well he does have a point.....a 9% tax on formerly untaxed income would take a relatively big bite out of lower income folks' incomes.....plus another bite of 9% sales tax (added on to an already existing 5-9% state sales tax) on everything they buy.....that would double the punch to their wallets...and the GOP will never see their votes...

the average social security income is about $1200 per month....ss is the primary income of a whole lot of retired folks.....if ss is taxed as income 999 would take roughly $200 from them each month in taxes....this would definitely alienate most of the retired sector who are today already being squeezed via inflation .....and with the Baby Boomers retiring this is another huge demographic the GOP would likely lose....

instead of monkeying with the whole entire tax system at once i'd like to see Cain first lower the corporate tax to 9% (or even less)....and see what happens with the economy....if we get big growth that would be the time to put the other parts of his tax plan into play....

ps: i'd like to see either a flat income tax or a national sales tax.....one or the other but NOT BOTH....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then calculate your own taxes under Cain's plan and tell us how your own taxes would change.

Of course you'll have to tell us roughly what you earn and how many dependents you have, so we can see how you did your calculation.

In fact, all of you should do this. You don't have to post it, but be honest with yourself. I calculated mine -

I would break even, approximately, on a middle income type salary, BUT, I have zero dependents and NONE of the current deductions that those with dependents have,

all of which disappear under the Cain plan.

Last yr our AGI was 215K

My federal tax rate worked out to 22% So I paid 47,300 in federal income taxes. We have no dependents.

Under 999 I would pay 19,350 for a savings of 27,950. Even with the federal sales tax I would bet I would pay less under Cain's plan because I am not a huge spender.

So you can say I'm all in favor of a lower flat tax.

The 9% comes off your gross minus your payroll tax plus the sales tax based on how much you'd estimate you'd spend on taxable goods and services.

Cain's plan eliminates payroll taxes.

The tax is 9% on income and I already said that we are not very big spenders so I believe I will still come out ahead under a flat tax plus a consumption tax.

Using AGI is probably wrong though I'll have to look up what my actual gross income was as i don't remember it.

 

[Stephanie]

Whoa. See what some of us were trying to tell you?


Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes on 84 Percent


"Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.


The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent....

Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis...."

Read more: Study: Cain Tax Plan Raises Taxes On 84 Percent | Fox News

SO, all that talk by OBAMA of ALL THE PEOPLE having some skin in the game, was just SMOKE he and you all were blowing up our asses.

 

[auditor0007]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

 

[DiamondDave]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

 

[LoneLaugher]

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But...if you still have note determined, to your own satisfaction, that Herman Cains plan is an unworkable pile of shit......then you might just be a little out of touch.

 

[rightwinger]

When one pays no federal income tax (well.. more than one... more like ~48% of the citizenry)... of course having a standard tax that will apply to everyone will mean there is an increase for many...

They should have been paying federal income tax like others in the first place... you know... that little thingy called equal treatment by law under government

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

 

[DiamondDave]

Since you are one of those always complaining about those who pay no federal income taxes, why is it that you never complain about the unfairness of state taxes where lower income earners are taxed at substantially higher rates than the wealthy? I'm assuming that you would support a change in most state taxing structures also, so that the higher income earners would pay more and lower income earners would pay less. There is no reason higher income earners should pay so much less as a percentage of income than lower income earners. Would you not agree?

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

 

[Jarhead]

Ummm.. have no not hear be preaching for the tops of the hills about nothing else but EQUAL RATES ON TAXES AT ALL LEVELS AND WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS???

There is NO reason anyone should pay any different rate on every dollar earned... PERIOD... whether it be state tax, fed tax, local tax or whatever..... much like a sales tax does not discriminate whether you spend $6 or $60000

The same tax rules apply equally to everyone

The US has had a progressive tax rate in place for 75 years with the majority of the industrialized world recognizing the merits of a progressive tax structure

The only ones who don't are conservatives and Russia

Progressive rates are a cop out to prevent you from recognizing unequal treatment... if Dollar #1 is not treated the same as dollar #50k and dollar #100MIL, it is INHERENTLY and BY DEFINITION unequal treatment by law (in this case the tax law) by government...

You continually preach the religion of unequal treatment... when it benefits you at the expense of others.. but will scream to the top of your lungs when you think you are being treated unequally, again when it benefits you... and that by definition, is being a hypocrite

yes...I find that commonplace with the progressive ideology.

All should be treated equal.......well....sometimes. The wealthy should be treated as second class citrizens.