T-shirts at a memorial service aren't political?

[Cuyo]

Are we really arguing about fucking t shirts?

Uhh, yeah they are... i was a little baffled by your first response here...

Never let a tragedy go to waste.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? What exactly is the problem with the t-shirt? The fact that it's blue?

 

[Truthmatters]

I do not recall ever seeing a memorial where people cheered and gave standing ovations. I don't believe I've ever seen a memorial where souvenir t-shirts were given out. It all seems rather strange to me.

I can understand the hailing of some of the Heroes who were present in the crowd, to an extent. I simply cannot grasp the Pep rally type actions by the crowd. It's almost scary.

And yet when I look at the Tucson news I see no complaints and only good things pointed out.

To me it just seemed wrong. Felt wrong. Was wrong.

Maybe we should allow people to grieve and heal in their own way.

people all grieve differently, ask anyone who counsels the grieving

 

[mal]

America could use some coming together and thriving dont you think?


I think we can thrive much easier if we come together as Americans.

We CAN heal, we just have to want to heal.

Heal from what?

Seriously, the families, the friends, they are the ones who need help to heal. Stop using dead Americans for your political point scoring. It's offensive.

We all have to Heal, CG... After all, "We are ALL Columbine"...

Because 1 or 2 Sick Individuals do Bad things from Time to Time, doesn't Mean that Society Needs to Heal, or that there is some Collective Societal Problem...

But this is the way Liberals Think... Err, Feel.

And of course Political Opportunism is always there...

As it's been since NPR was Incorrectly Reporting that the Rep was Dead, the Left went right after Sarah, Rush, the Tea Party and the Collective Right...

They have been doing it ALL Week...

Now the "Good Cop", Barrack Hussein Obama comes out and calls for an End to the Incivility...

The Incivility that HIS Side Started the Day of the Shooting...

Seriously... Fuck them.



peace...

 

[Annie]

No, they do not.

He was an adult, and you are assuming they had the know how to know he needed help.

Let me explain what you are saying;
Every kid caought drinking or using drugs takes the parents down with them, b/c they should have known

Parents are guilty of murder if thier kid kills themselves.

Kids out after curfew? Parents in cuffs

On and on

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

If the kid is under 21 and this happens, yes. If the kid is over 21, nope.

Loughner is a nutter; whether he is insane remains to be seen.

His parents are devastated by all of this. I don't hold them responsible, I hold Jared Loughner responsible. He is the one who planned it and pulled the trigger.

Perhaps not criminally, but civilly it's more than possible. Not if the history of mental illness predates turning 21. In this case it appears it did. See Laurie Dann's parents regarding civil suits.

 

[kwc57]

No, they do not.

He was an adult, and you are assuming they had the know how to know he needed help.

Let me explain what you are saying;
Every kid caought drinking or using drugs takes the parents down with them, b/c they should have known

Parents are guilty of murder if thier kid kills themselves.

Kids out after curfew? Parents in cuffs

On and on

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

He's 22, not a kid. There comes a time when parents are not legally responsible for their children, does there not? Otherwise, my parents could be charged for my actions - which is ridiculous.

But there IS a moral obligation. If you are living with a family member that you suspect is or could hurt other people, shouldn't you do something about it? The unabomber was turned in by his own brother who suspected him after reading some of his drivel that got published.

 

[mudwhistle]

Who paid for and made them? Why?

Shirts sit on the back of chairs before a memorial service for ... - Yahoo! News Photos

I only got to hear about the first 5 minutes of Glenn Beck this morning, but he was oddly favorable to Obama's speech.

Obama gave a good speech.

The tone of the attendees bothered me some.

 

[Two Thumbs]

No, they do not.

He was an adult, and you are assuming they had the know how to know he needed help.

Let me explain what you are saying;
Every kid caought drinking or using drugs takes the parents down with them, b/c they should have known

Parents are guilty of murder if thier kid kills themselves.

Kids out after curfew? Parents in cuffs

On and on

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

If the kid is under 21 and this happens, yes. If the kid is over 21, nope.

Loughner is a nutter; whether he is insane remains to be seen.
His parents are devastated by all of this. I don't hold them responsible, I hold Jared Loughner responsible. He is the one who planned it and pulled the trigger.

I'm amazed at how few of us understand this.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

If the kid is under 21 and this happens, yes. If the kid is over 21, nope.

Loughner is a nutter; whether he is insane remains to be seen.

His parents are devastated by all of this. I don't hold them responsible, I hold Jared Loughner responsible. He is the one who planned it and pulled the trigger.

Perhaps not criminally, but civilly it's more than possible. Not if the history of mental illness predates turning 21. In this case it appears it did. See Laurie Dann's parents regarding civil suits.

Everything that I've read so far indicate that it was within the last year that Loughner's behavior became erratic. Did he show signs of mental problems when he was younger?

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

He's 22, not a kid. There comes a time when parents are not legally responsible for their children, does there not? Otherwise, my parents could be charged for my actions - which is ridiculous.

But there IS a moral obligation. If you are living with a family member that you suspect is or could hurt other people, shouldn't you do something about it? The unabomber was turned in by his own brother who suspected him after reading some of his drivel that got published.

Did the parents try to get him help? Did they try and get him help and he refused? I haven't seen anything on this one way or the other, just asking if you knew.

There was this:

1. For months, he showed a classic symptom of psychosis: disorganized thoughts and speech. He routinely made irrelevant and nonsensical comments in classes. On one test, according to the Washington Post, he wrote, "Eat + Sleep + Brush Teeth = Math." On another test, he wrote, "Mayhem Fest!!!" (See what motivated Gabrielle Giffords' shooter.)

2. He showed another symptom of psychosis, or at the very least, an inability to function in social situations. One example from the New York Times: he enthusiastically read a poem in class in which he discussed touching himself in the shower.

3. He showed signs of paranoia, telling a classmate that U.S. currency was worthless and that the government was seeking to control people through grammar. He also became interested in a concept he called "conscious dreaming" (a concept at the heart of the mind-bending thriller Inception). (See photos of the outpouring of support for the shooting victims.)

4. He regularly smoked marijuana, and while there is only a small correlation between having a mental illness and committing violence, that correlation becomes much more significant when mental illness is combined with drug use, according to John Monahan, a professor of psychology at the University of Virginia School of Law.

5. Several classmates said Loughner scared them. One of them even wrote e-mails in June saying she was afraid he would bring a gun to class. A teacher worried every time he had his back to Loughner that the student would pull a gun on him.

6. Loughner had five contacts with campus police, although it is not clear what behavior led to those contacts.

Hindsight is perfect, of course, but all institutions need to monitor students and employees who are consistently acting strangely. There was arguably enough evidence for Pima authorities to go to a judge and have Loughner involuntarily committed to a mental hospital, as Virginia Tech did with Cho. At the very least, the college could have required Loughner to check in with a counselor on a daily or weekly basis.

Read more: Loughner's Mental Illness: Six Disturbing Warning Signs - TIME

 

[SFC Ollie]

Not blaming anyone in particular. The service simply seemed wrong to me.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Wellstone Memorial.

T-shirts say they are treating this memorial with total glee.

As I said before. Liberals have absolutely no shame.

 

[mdn2000]

This community elected her.

I dont think they see her as a failure

It is her responsibility to address the security of the nation which includes herself as a member of congress.

It has been the left liberals that tell us the Conservatives have been stirring up hate. We are told we are the radicals everyone must fear, that we are the bigots, that we carry guns and any day we are going to go on a rampage such as this. Its in the news daily. So does Congress not believe their own Rhetoric, does Congress not believe MSNBC when it states Conservatives are a physical threat.

Is this why there was not adequate security at a political event held in a city. This congresswoman in my opinion literally got a 9 year old girl killed and I have no doubt she will struggle with her guilt the rest of her life.

So if Congress believes what they say, what their supporters say, how did they address security.

Or was there no security because Congress knows that Conservatives are not a threat, Democrats know they are telling lies when they state their is hate on the far right. Democrats know they are liars when they state there is a "Radical Far Right".

Had Democrats believed the Rhetoric they blamed this tragedy on they would of provided security and prevented the 9 year old girls murder.

It makes me sick that Democrats got this girl murdered. Was it that Democrats are naive, ignorant, stupid. What is it. It is beyond belief.

This was an organized event, I cannot wait until the same people are able to organize something else. I am sure they will put more thought into things in the future.

What happened to the only person to blame is the criminal? (which I agree with btw).

And to deny there's a far-right is ridiculous-there are extremes in EVERY political spectrum-and if you don't think there's one on the right, you just may be a part of it.

Yes I am extreme, I lock my doors at night so I do not get robbed, sure if I was robbed I could only blame the criminal and not myself. I am also very careful when I walk in the streets, I guess I should not be, I do not have to be careful, after all, we do not blame ourselves when in a dangerous place, we blame the criminals.

Yes, no personal responsibility and we cannot blame the politicians, they have no more power than us and no more responsibility to the public.

 

[kiwiman127]

Wellstone Memorial.

T-shirts say they are treating this memorial with total glee.

As I said before. Liberals have absolutely no shame.

As I sad before. Paul Wellstone's son is who changed a somber event into an upbeat event. He said, that what his father would of wanted. People who knew Paul Wellstone's personality can't argue with that. Very few Minnesotans complained, but the talking heads outside of Minnesota are the ones who whined the most..
You people are as bad as the lefties who pointed fingers at the right after the tragedy.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste." - (D) Rahm Emanuel.

 

[mdn2000]

I beg you people to allow this city to heal in their own way.

The university planned this event.

Please allow the community to come together and thrive in name of its people who died and were injured.

Thanks for begging us to let the community thrive together as Democrats in honor of Democrats who died at a Democrats political event.

Yes, lets keep partisan politics out.

Maybe we should all be wondering what kind of protection Democrats can give the nation when they cannot protect themselves in their own backyards.

This is another huge Democrat failure, now the whole nation must address security for those who work day and night on security issues.

Congress has the lowest approval rating of all time, how in the hell can they fail to provide security at a political event. Did they assume it being in their town that everyone loved them. Are they this disconnected from their people they just let their guard down.

This is a serious question, what was the security on the Federal level, why this massive failure of government.

Assassination in the year 2011, I hope they get things right, hell did they not just find an aide or something in a dumpster. Why does Congress do with our money.

Sadly, Gifford failed herself and the country.

Democrats died? Judge Rolls was a Republican, as was at least one of the others who died. Christina Green was 9 - to the best of anyone's knowledge, she was not a member of any political party. Your response is partisan rhetoric. And you should be ashamed of it.

Partisan Rhetoric, no, its not. A coach to a young girl to a Democrat rally, it was for a member of Congress. I clearly state Congress failed us, I clearly state the government failed us.

My exact words ending my statement are clear, I did not end stating Democrat Congress or our Democrat President.

Nobody failed to do there job than why are they holding sessions in Congress discussing security. If this is not a failure of government why are they addressing security. If nobody failed, who is to blame, only the person who did.

Sorry, but this is politics, this is not a citizen that was a target. Sure its hindsight now but my god, if politicians come around my house I am going to have my guns ready, politicians have always attracted crazy people. Of course they are passing a law that you cannot have a gun near a Congressman so I will never be able to protect myself. Even after the Government proves over and over they fail.

I am sorry the parents have lost a child. I actual only care about the child. I feel bad for the parents, they were not even there at the end of the child's life at least from the article I read.

We can not separate the politics from a political event. We live in a dangerous world. Is this the one Congressman that never got a threat in the mail. In all seriousness, if she can think when this is all over, do you think she will apologize or will she just say I have no guilt.

Public officials first responsibility is to the safety to the public, its in their oath, its why they are in office. Gifford failed to protect herself and the public.

Its terrible, its pretty bad that we are so damned politically correct and going out of our way to prove we are better than the other we cannot state the truth.

i would respect politicians if for once they would just admit they failed.

Anyone admit they failed before 9/11? They admit they failed before the financial meltdown. When does the government ever take responsibility.

This was not a citizen, she was a politician, it was her responsibility. I do not know what to say to anyone who thinks the politicians are not responsible for the safety of the public.

The shooter is guilty of murder.

Gifford failed in her primary responsibility to the public. Our safety.

Hopefully people will realize a political event is not a place for a child. It is insane to take a child to any political event.

 

[Jeremy]

"Never let a good tragedy go to waste." - (D) Rahm Emanuel.

I wonder if he has apologized yet for mailing a dead fish to his political opponent?

That kind of rhetoric, which implies violence, is shameful.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Left/Democrats are shamefully exploiting this tragedy. Anyone with common sense can see that. The Left/Democrats can't stoop any lower. They've reached rock-bottom for sure.

 

[saveliberty]

Let me explain reality.

If your kids hold a party at your house and someone gets killed on the way home from alcohol they drank at the party... you as the parent get charged.

You can't have it both ways. Either he was mentally insane and another adult should have been responsible for him or he was a complete adult and responsible for his actions. The parents had to know what was going on to an extent. The dad worked from home. My guess is, the state is still building their case before charging the parents.

I think the evidence for what you claim is just not there.

It's not, he's deluded. His example was based on underage kids on your property.

If he had killed the Sen on the property, then they should be investigated. But the basis that he lived at home so they are at fault is non-sense.

Again, the shooter lives in their home with no job. Completely dependent on the parents. Any money the kid has is from the parents. Mostly likely the parents bought the gun used in the shooting indirectly. The registration for his gun came in the mail?

It is called being an enabler. That means you are aiding the behavior of the individual. That makes you an accessory. By the way, you serve too much alcohol to an of age partier and they get in an accident, you can be held liable.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

It is her responsibility to address the security of the nation which includes herself as a member of congress.

It has been the left liberals that tell us the Conservatives have been stirring up hate. We are told we are the radicals everyone must fear, that we are the bigots, that we carry guns and any day we are going to go on a rampage such as this. Its in the news daily. So does Congress not believe their own Rhetoric, does Congress not believe MSNBC when it states Conservatives are a physical threat.

Is this why there was not adequate security at a political event held in a city. This congresswoman in my opinion literally got a 9 year old girl killed and I have no doubt she will struggle with her guilt the rest of her life.

So if Congress believes what they say, what their supporters say, how did they address security.

Or was there no security because Congress knows that Conservatives are not a threat, Democrats know they are telling lies when they state their is hate on the far right. Democrats know they are liars when they state there is a "Radical Far Right".

Had Democrats believed the Rhetoric they blamed this tragedy on they would of provided security and prevented the 9 year old girls murder.

It makes me sick that Democrats got this girl murdered. Was it that Democrats are naive, ignorant, stupid. What is it. It is beyond belief.

This was an organized event, I cannot wait until the same people are able to organize something else. I am sure they will put more thought into things in the future.

What happened to the only person to blame is the criminal? (which I agree with btw).

And to deny there's a far-right is ridiculous-there are extremes in EVERY political spectrum-and if you don't think there's one on the right, you just may be a part of it.

Yes I am extreme, I lock my doors at night so I do not get robbed, sure if I was robbed I could only blame the criminal and not myself. I am also very careful when I walk in the streets, I guess I should not be, I do not have to be careful, after all, we do not blame ourselves when in a dangerous place, we blame the criminals.

Yes, no personal responsibility and we cannot blame the politicians, they have no more power than us and no more responsibility to the public.

If you don't lock your doors at night and somebody breaks in-they're still committing the crime. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

The Democrats are to blame for the murder? Really? Are you that biased?

did they give Loughner the gun? no. The ammo? no. Did they force him to pull the trigger pointed at 9 year old girl? no. The only person to blame is Loughner.

And ok: why are the Democrats to blame for the murder of the little girl. Here's your chance to shine.

 

[saveliberty]

I do not recall ever seeing a memorial where people cheered and gave standing ovations. I don't believe I've ever seen a memorial where souvenir t-shirts were given out. It all seems rather strange to me.

I can understand the hailing of some of the Heroes who were present in the crowd, to an extent. I simply cannot grasp the Pep rally type actions by the crowd. It's almost scary.

And yet when I look at the Tucson news I see no complaints and only good things pointed out.

To me it just seemed wrong. Felt wrong. Was wrong.

I didn't feel like plowing through over a hundred posts in this thread, so hopefully someone by now has pointed out that it was the University of Arizona that had the T-shirts made up and distributed. The reason it resembled a "pep" rally is because there were thousands of students there in an arena usually used for pep rallies. And as I mentioned elsewhere, it wasn't as though it was a memorial held in a church or religious environment to honor the dead. It was a testimonial to the brave ones who did die and also to those who survived the horrific event.

So the T-shirts were a government funded project to help the homeless? The whole thing reeks of political crassness. By the way, dying of a killer's bullet does not make you a hero. It makes you a victim of a tragedy. Granted some did shield others from bullets.

 

[mdn2000]

What happened to the only person to blame is the criminal? (which I agree with btw).

And to deny there's a far-right is ridiculous-there are extremes in EVERY political spectrum-and if you don't think there's one on the right, you just may be a part of it.

Yes I am extreme, I lock my doors at night so I do not get robbed, sure if I was robbed I could only blame the criminal and not myself. I am also very careful when I walk in the streets, I guess I should not be, I do not have to be careful, after all, we do not blame ourselves when in a dangerous place, we blame the criminals.

Yes, no personal responsibility and we cannot blame the politicians, they have no more power than us and no more responsibility to the public.

If you don't lock your doors at night and somebody breaks in-they're still committing the crime. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

The Democrats are to blame for the murder? Really? Are you that biased?

did they give Loughner the gun? no. The ammo? no. Did they force him to pull the trigger pointed at 9 year old girl? no. The only person to blame is Loughner.

And ok: why are the Democrats to blame for the murder of the little girl. Here's your chance to shine.

First and foremost I blame Congress and the Government. I do point out this was at a Democrat political event so the Democrats do bear responsibility.

One man is guilty of murder.

Congress is guilty of not protecting the public.

If the President comes to your house without security and is attacked, would you just say it was simply a crime by a nut or would you question why the President did not have the security to protect himself and the public.

Whenever anything happens its never the politicians fault. When will we hold the politicians accountable.

Here is your chance to shine, tell me how the Democrat party has no responsibility to protect the public.

A child is dead and the last people we can blame are the people who are sworn to protect us. Too bad a little of that trillion dollar stimulus did not pay for extra security with all this extreme rhetoric.

I guess when all the Democrats and all the media screams how dangerous the far right is that must be just Rhetoric because they took no steps to protect themselves from us.

Maybe they do when they travel away from home and they were just to naive, in their districts they are loved too much to worry.

Congress fails us again and the Rhetoric is the Cover-up. Do not be partisan, just blame the criminal.

If your money is stolen from the bank because they left the doors open and the alarm off can we blame the bank?