T. Boone Pickens' Energy Plan

[stivex]

U.S. blows by Germany in wind-energy output

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - The U.S. in July surpassed Germany as the world's largest wind-energy producer, as the business of harnessing electricity from giant turbines continues to pick up momentum on several fronts.

source: U.S. blows by Germany in wind energy; Pickens speaks to Senate - MarketWatch

 

[Chris]

U.S. blows by Germany in wind-energy output

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - The U.S. in July surpassed Germany as the world's largest wind-energy producer, as the business of harnessing electricity from giant turbines continues to pick up momentum on several fronts.

source: U.S. blows by Germany in wind energy; Pickens speaks to Senate - MarketWatch

Hooray for T. Boone. He is the only one who senses the urgency of the situation. Bush refused to even tell Americans to conserve energy. What an *sshole!

 

[Epsilon Delta]

That's good news!

 

[Shogun]

What has the Shogun been saying about turning Deserts into proverbial batteries, kiddies?


Saharan sun to power European supergrid
Saharan sun could power European supergrid | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Vast farms of solar panels in the Sahara desert could provide clean electricity for the whole of Europe, according to EU scientists working on a plan to pool the region's renewable energy.

Harnessing the power of the desert sun is at the centre of ambitious scheme to build a €45bn (£35.7bn) European supergrid that would allow countries across the continent to share electricity from abundant green sources such as wind energy in the UK and Denmark and geothermal energy from Iceland and Italy.

The idea is gaining growing political support in Europe with both Gordon Brown and Nicholas Sarkozy recently giving backing to the north African solar plan.

Speaking today at the Euroscience Open Forum in Barcelona, Arnulf Jaeger-Walden of the European commission's Institute for Energy, said it would require the capture of just 0.3% of the light falling on the Sahara and Middle Eastern deserts to provide all of Europe's energy needs.

In addition, because the sunlight in this area is more intense, solar photovoltaic (PV) panels in northern Africa could generate up to three times the electricity compared with similar panels in northern Europe.

Jaeger-Walden explained how electricity produced in solar farms in Africa, each containing power plants generating around 50-200MW of power, could be fed thousands of miles across European countries by using high-voltage direct current transmission lines instead of the traditional alternating current lines. Energy losses on DC lines are far lower than AC ones where transmission of energy over long distances is uneconomic.

"If you look at solar radiation, then the Mediterranean region is a very favourable one," said Jaeger-Walden.

He said that the proposed grid was a way to balance out the intermittencies of renewable energy: "If you can connect the grid to hydro power, you've got that as a backup battery, and in addition there's wind. It's not a single source that's providing the energy but a combination of the different renewable energies."

Conveniently the potential to generate solar energy, either from photovoltaic cells, or by using it to heat water, is at its highest exactly when there is peak demand. "Between 11am and 1pm – there are a lot of cooking activities going on, people are going home, air conditioners are used," he said.

The idea of developing solar farms in the Mediterranean region and north Africa was given a boost recently by French president Nicholas Sarkozy earlier this month when he highlighted solar farms in north Africa as a key part of the work of his newly-formed Mediterranean Union.






I swear to god. Im like a local fucking Arthur C Clarke.

 

[editec]

U.S. blows by Germany in wind-energy output

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - The U.S. in July surpassed Germany as the world's largest wind-energy producer, as the business of harnessing electricity from giant turbines continues to pick up momentum on several fronts.

source: U.S. blows by Germany in wind energy; Pickens speaks to Senate - MarketWatch

Good news for a change.

How refreshing.

 

[Charles_Main]

Hooray for T. Boone. He is the only one who senses the urgency of the situation. Bush refused to even tell Americans to conserve energy. What an *sshole!

I see you just ignore that old t-Boone is invested in Wind power and Natural gas, and is just looking to make a buck then eh

 

[Care4all]

I see you just ignore that old t-Boone is invested in Wind power and Natural gas, and is just looking to make a buck then eh

i think the wind farms, whether he's making a buck or not, is a pretty good idea however i do have problems with the natural gas part....

just looking ahead, and looking back on history...

here's why:

-we will need to spend alot of money putting in to place the conversions in the different areas of energy use in to something that accomodates natural gas use.....

-and before we are even done paying for the borrowed money to do that, I am concerned that we will start running low in this country especially if we 10fold or 100 fold our yearly consumption with all the new gizmos using it from cars to more homes to who knows what...?

-though we do have alot of natural gas i don't believe we are even in the top 10 in the world reserves but fairly close (if memory serves but don't quote me, need to recheck),

-the middle east owns much, much, much more than us.... the saudi's coming in at numero uno there and the Russians come in second with much, much, much more than us....

-And let's now presume that our creations to convert cars to natural gas and all the other things... take off in the world, so natural gas becomes EVEN MORE of a commodity glory than it is already and then demand rises and rises and rises....in world consumption and then to follow in price....? and it already is getting pretty pricey...(i know here in the northeast we have taken a couple of years of 40% increases in natural gas prices.)

-And lastly I read somewhere that the reason Natural gas is so costly in this country is once again, because we do not have enough refineries to separate the methane (natural gas) from the propane and butane that also come up with it when drilling.
-----------------------------------------------

Okay....now taking all of this in to consideration, I can see ourselves just being hooked on another fossil fuel that we will end up having to import from the Saudis, and we will still be involved in the middle east and all of the geopolitical nuances of such....or we get ourselves in to another cold war conflict with Russia...

And on top of all of that, natural gas will stay higher priced because no one wants to build refineries so to hold that price high....

And some opec conglomerate is forming right as we speak for the natural gas industry i read, and the americans won't have any say in it....

THIS could be just another Big oil venture but a Big Natuaral Gas venture that puts us or our grandchildren RIGHT BACK in to the situation we are in right now.....

I guess I am being too cautious but I really would like to see us supply our own energy thru ingenuity that could last us forever....like wind and solar and even nuclear with the newer technology and safety changes....that way we will never have to war and fight with the middle east and others somewhere down the road for this crud and not be so vulnerable when speculators decide to play with the market or new OPECees of the natural gas industry decide to slow down on pumping it out, making the price rise globally of which WE WILL be a part of....

I'm just raising the red flag on all of this.....

I am not even certain if all of my scenario would come to play, but IT COULD.

And even if it did, maybe we need the natural gas as a temp fix until renewable energy becomes stronger....?

I am not dead set against picken's plans, just think we need to think this thoroughly through before we jump in to this completely blinded by the sound of the ideas, and not the facts behind the scenes.

Care

 

[Charles_Main]

i think the wind farms, whether he's making a buck or not, is a pretty good idea however i do have problems with the natural gas part....

just looking ahead, and looking back on history...

here's why:

-we will need to spend alot of money putting in to place the conversions in the different areas of energy use in to something that accomodates natural gas use.....

-and before we are even done paying for the borrowed money to do that, I am concerned that we will start running low in this country especially if we 10fold or 100 fold our yearly consumption with all the new gizmos using it from cars to more homes to who knows what...?

-though we do have alot of natural gas i don't believe we are even in the top 10 in the world reserves but fairly close (if memory serves but don't quote me, need to recheck),

-the middle east owns much, much, much more than us.... the saudi's coming in at numero uno there and the Russians come in second with much, much, much more than us....

-And let's now presume that our creations to convert cars to natural gas and all the other things... take off in the world, so natural gas becomes EVEN MORE of a commodity glory than it is already and then demand rises and rises and rises....in world consumption and then to follow in price....? and it already is getting pretty pricey...(i know here in the northeast we have taken a couple of years of 40% increases in natural gas prices.)

-And lastly I read somewhere that the reason Natural gas is so costly in this country is once again, because we do not have enough refineries to separate the methane (natural gas) from the propane and butane that also come up with it when drilling.
-----------------------------------------------

Okay....now taking all of this in to consideration, I can see ourselves just being hooked on another fossil fuel that we will end up having to import from the Saudis, and we will still be involved in the middle east and all of the geopolitical nuances of such....or we get ourselves in to another cold war conflict with Russia...

And on top of all of that, natural gas will stay higher priced because no one wants to build refineries so to hold that price high....

And some opec conglomerate is forming right as we speak for the natural gas industry i read, and the americans won't have any say in it....

THIS could be just another Big oil venture but a Big Natuaral Gas venture that puts us or our grandchildren RIGHT BACK in to the situation we are in right now.....

I guess I am being too cautious but I really would like to see us supply our own energy thru ingenuity that could last us forever....like wind and solar and even nuclear with the newer technology and safety changes....that way we will never have to war and fight with the middle east and others somewhere down the road for this crud and not be so vulnerable when speculators decide to play with the market or new OPECees of the natural gas industry decide to slow down on pumping it out, making the price rise globally of which WE WILL be a part of....

I'm just raising the red flag on all of this.....

I am not even certain if all of my scenario would come to play, but IT COULD.

And even if it did, maybe we need the natural gas as a temp fix until renewable energy becomes stronger....?

I am not dead set against picken's plans, just think we need to think this thoroughly through before we jump in to this completely blinded by the sound of the ideas, and not the facts behind the scenes.

Care



-I have a

Oh I agree the wind farms are a great idea, I also agree Natural gas is not such a great idea, But I think it is funny the same people who are all over Bush for Oil connections, over look T-boones own reasons for wanting this.

 

[dilloduck]

What has the Shogun been saying about turning Deserts into proverbial batteries, kiddies?


Saharan sun to power European supergrid
Saharan sun could power European supergrid | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Vast farms of solar panels in the Sahara desert could provide clean electricity for the whole of Europe, according to EU scientists working on a plan to pool the region's renewable energy.

Harnessing the power of the desert sun is at the centre of ambitious scheme to build a €45bn (£35.7bn) European supergrid that would allow countries across the continent to share electricity from abundant green sources such as wind energy in the UK and Denmark and geothermal energy from Iceland and Italy.

The idea is gaining growing political support in Europe with both Gordon Brown and Nicholas Sarkozy recently giving backing to the north African solar plan.

Speaking today at the Euroscience Open Forum in Barcelona, Arnulf Jaeger-Walden of the European commission's Institute for Energy, said it would require the capture of just 0.3% of the light falling on the Sahara and Middle Eastern deserts to provide all of Europe's energy needs.

In addition, because the sunlight in this area is more intense, solar photovoltaic (PV) panels in northern Africa could generate up to three times the electricity compared with similar panels in northern Europe.

Jaeger-Walden explained how electricity produced in solar farms in Africa, each containing power plants generating around 50-200MW of power, could be fed thousands of miles across European countries by using high-voltage direct current transmission lines instead of the traditional alternating current lines. Energy losses on DC lines are far lower than AC ones where transmission of energy over long distances is uneconomic.

"If you look at solar radiation, then the Mediterranean region is a very favourable one," said Jaeger-Walden.

He said that the proposed grid was a way to balance out the intermittencies of renewable energy: "If you can connect the grid to hydro power, you've got that as a backup battery, and in addition there's wind. It's not a single source that's providing the energy but a combination of the different renewable energies."

Conveniently the potential to generate solar energy, either from photovoltaic cells, or by using it to heat water, is at its highest exactly when there is peak demand. "Between 11am and 1pm – there are a lot of cooking activities going on, people are going home, air conditioners are used," he said.

The idea of developing solar farms in the Mediterranean region and north Africa was given a boost recently by French president Nicholas Sarkozy earlier this month when he highlighted solar farms in north Africa as a key part of the work of his newly-formed Mediterranean Union.






I swear to god. Im like a local fucking Arthur C Clarke.

Sure---steal all of Africa's resources, will ya ????

 

[Chris]

Oh I agree the wind farms are a great idea, I also agree Natural gas is not such a great idea, But I think it is funny the same people who are all over Bush for Oil connections, over look T-boones own reasons for wanting this.

T. Boone is eighty years old and has billions of dollars. He probably won't even see this project come to fruition.

Plus, what's wrong with making money if it helps America?

 

[Charles_Main]

T. Boone is eighty years old and has billions of dollars. He probably won't even see this project come to fruition.

Plus, what's wrong with making money if it helps America?

So when oil companies make money supplying the US with oil they are evil, But if T-boone does the same with wind and Natural Gas it is ok. I see, kinda inconstant but ok.

 

[Chris]

So when oil companies make money supplying the US with oil they are evil, But if T-boone does the same with wind and Natural Gas it is ok. I see, kinda inconstant but ok.

There is nothing wrong with oil companies making money as far as I'm concerned. When they use that money to buy influence, that's a different story.

 

[Charles_Main]

There is nothing wrong with oil companies making money as far as I'm concerned. When they use that money to buy influence, that's a different story.

I got news for you, Every industry in America uses money to buy influence, Where the hell you been Many of them give money to both parties just to hedge the bets.

 

[editec]

I got news for you, Every industry in America uses money to buy influence, Where the hell you been Many of them give money to both parties just to hedge the bets.

They ALL give money to both parties.

 

[Paulie]

They ALL give money to both parties.

It certainly isn't limited to just those 2 parties, either.

 

[editec]

To say that wind farms don't consistently produce energy is an ignorant comment by the Baron. Read the link I posted.

Hey Kirk...chill.

I live on coast of Maine, too, remember?

Ex Governor King actually has a plan to build enormous wind farms in the gulf of Maine

Wind farms do NOT produce energy consistently.

They can be part of the solution, but they cannot be the sole solution.

 

[Paulie]

Does anyone else have trouble believing that we don't have the ability to store energy generated by means such as wind and solar?

In this day and age, with our technological savvy, we can build the most sophisticated weaponry that can be used to take out entire continents, but we can't store wind and solar energy?

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Shogun]

Sure---steal all of Africa's resources, will ya ????

hehehe..


Imagine though.. Saharan populations sprouting around the human ability to adapt. MEXICO might actually have a resource someone besides cartels and stomach medicines WANT! We even have our own desert to play with.

 

[Chris]

Hey Kirk...chill.

I live on coast of Maine, too, remember?

Ex Governor King actually has a plan to build enormous wind farms in the gulf of Maine

Wind farms do NOT produce energy consistently.

They can be part of the solution, but they cannot be the sole solution.

If you read the link I posted it says that the Danes had no problems with wind power producing consistently.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

For God's sake do a little reading before you talk BS. You put wind farms where the wind blows 95% of the time.

The reason wind power has worked for the Danes is that it has received consistent support from the government, unlike in the U.S. where we have had two ex oil men in the White House for eight years.

Wind power in Denmark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First of all, 95% of the time appears to be a number you pulled out of your ass. No offense.

Second of all, 95% uptime for residential housing needs would be rather irritating. It would amount to almost an hour and fifteen minutes a day. For heavy industry it would be a lot worse though. Shut down the power to a manufacturing plant, or a microchip factory, or a foundry, and you end up scrapping an awful lot of product. I know this, because the company I work for scraps product once or twice a year when the power goes out.

Thanks for the link though. I always like it when opponents help me prove my point!

Denmark is connected by transmission line to other European countries and therefore it does not need to install additional peak-load plant to balance its wind power.

Translation: they don't have to bear the full cost of wind power, because they can just buy electricity from France's nuclear plants (which run 24/7) when the wind is not blowing very strongly.

Because the energy found from wind power isn't consistently producing energy, we should not take advantage of it?

That position makes very little sense to me.

Suppose I came over to your house every day, and flipped off the main breaker in your electrical panel. Then I put a padlock on it, and kept it off for 73 minutes. Every day. Or instead of every day, let's say that I did it for 18 days out of the year. 18 full 24 hour days, with no power.

You'd be okay with that? No, you'd be fighting mad.

There are houses in my area that are off the grid completely, they operate totally on solar power...but I don't know if there are times they are without power.

It's certainly doable for residential, if you're willing to make certain sacrifices. The main obstacle isn't even the cost of a battery stack, it's the fact that lead-acid batteries only last 4~5 years. Hopefully Firefly's batteries will cure that: NiMh performance at lead-acid prices, in a battery that lasts for decades.

Does anyone else have trouble believing that we don't have the ability to store energy generated by means such as wind and solar?

In this day and age, with our technological savvy, we can build the most sophisticated weaponry that can be used to take out entire continents, but we can't store wind and solar energy?

Give me a fucking break.

Don't be too hasty. Rising energy prices combined with nanotech have produced a wave of new storage devices. And even if the carmakers had no interest in battery tech (not true), the laptop and cell phone industry certainly does.

Google the following:

firefly battery
A123 battery
altairnano
EEStor (this one will really make you shit a brick)