Sweet reality!

[taichiliberal]

If only John McCain were a democratic....

so many of you libs would have chosen him over your 0ssiah....

Shoulda Woulda Coulda....

why is it when there's no response, do righties start with the 'ossiah'/'messiah' stuff?

and no... i wouldn't have voted for mccain 2008... that mccain was the person who decided to play his chips with the radical right. now... mccain 2000? THAT was a decent man.

y'all broke him.

Who broke him? It looked to me like it was the Democrats. He wanted to look like he was sensible so he made a bunch of stupid decisions to appease the radical left wing. After that he was worthless.

It wasn't the Dems who slandered McCain during the GOP primary, was it bunky? You can thank call Rove and company for that.
The "maverick" legend of McCain was the policies he professed that were not in step with the GOP party line....policies that he threw out the window to gain the 2008 title.

And how in the hell can you claim that McCain proves "torture works" when McCain broke and signed a FALSE CONFESSION?

Not only are you a Quantum Windbag, but you're also a neocon revisionist on par with the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Maulkin, Levin, Savage, Crowley, Newsbusters, the WND, etc., etc.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

John McCain: Waterboarding, Torture Did Not Help Hunt for Osama Bin Laden


Arizona Sen. John McCain, a former POW who was tortured for years at the hands of Vietnamese captors, delivered an impassioned argument today that so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques” did not produce intelligence leading to Osama bin Laden.

John McCain: Waterboarding, Torture Did Not Help Hunt for Osama Bin Laden - The Note

The guy who argued that torture works because it broke him, but also insisted that torture never results in truth, and you want to quote him as proof about torture not working, even though it was not torture.

If you can provide the actual quote from McCain that states what you claim, then your babbling might actually make sense. If not, then you're just a Quantum Windbag.

Direct quote? If only I could find one, I guess I will just have to admit you got me.

Oops, I guess I don't.

I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

News Hounds: Is Fox News Ignoring John McCain's Statements On Torture And The Death Of Bin Laden?

Like I said, if he stuck with the position that it was wrong I would have no problem, but he can't agree that it works and then argue we should not use it because it does not work. Once you get someone talking you can weed out the bad intelligence from the good, but if they sit there and stare at you you get nothing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

why is it when there's no response, do righties start with the 'ossiah'/'messiah' stuff?

and no... i wouldn't have voted for mccain 2008... that mccain was the person who decided to play his chips with the radical right. now... mccain 2000? THAT was a decent man.

y'all broke him.

Who broke him? It looked to me like it was the Democrats. He wanted to look like he was sensible so he made a bunch of stupid decisions to appease the radical left wing. After that he was worthless.

It wasn't the Dems who slandered McCain during the GOP primary, was it bunky? You can thank call Rove and company for that.
The "maverick" legend of McCain was the policies he professed that were not in step with the GOP party line....policies that he threw out the window to gain the 2008 title.

And how in the hell can you claim that McCain proves "torture works" when McCain broke and signed a FALSE CONFESSION?

Not only are you a Quantum Windbag, but you're also a neocon revisionist on par with the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Maulkin, Levin, Savage, Crowley, Newsbusters, the WND, etc., etc.

Which time? I remember plenty of attacks on McCain about the Keating 5 that I know came from Democrats even before he was officially nominated. I know you missed that, but you missed everything that did not happen last week.

 

[taichiliberal]

The guy who argued that torture works because it broke him, but also insisted that torture never results in truth, and you want to quote him as proof about torture not working, even though it was not torture.

If you can provide the actual quote from McCain that states what you claim, then your babbling might actually make sense. If not, then you're just a Quantum Windbag.

Direct quote? If only I could find one, I guess I will just have to admit you got me.

Oops, I guess I don't.

I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

News Hounds: Is Fox News Ignoring John McCain's Statements On Torture And The Death Of Bin Laden?

Like I said, if he stuck with the position that it was wrong I would have no problem, but he can't agree that it works and then argue we should not use it because it does not work. Once you get someone talking you can weed out the bad intelligence from the good, but if they sit there and stare at you you get nothing.

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

 

[taichiliberal]

Who broke him? It looked to me like it was the Democrats. He wanted to look like he was sensible so he made a bunch of stupid decisions to appease the radical left wing. After that he was worthless.

It wasn't the Dems who slandered McCain during the GOP primary, was it bunky? You can thank call Rove and company for that.
The "maverick" legend of McCain was the policies he professed that were not in step with the GOP party line....policies that he threw out the window to gain the 2008 title.

And how in the hell can you claim that McCain proves "torture works" when McCain broke and signed a FALSE CONFESSION?

Not only are you a Quantum Windbag, but you're also a neocon revisionist on par with the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Maulkin, Levin, Savage, Crowley, Newsbusters, the WND, etc., etc.

Which time? I remember plenty of attacks on McCain about the Keating 5 that I know came from Democrats even before he was officially nominated. I know you missed that, but you missed everything that did not happen last week.

WTF are you going on about? I never professed that McCain was a solid gold icon worshipped by non-Republicans/conservative wingnuts, did I now?

Bottom Line: What I stated is dead on FACT that YOU can't Windbag your way past. So spare us all the lame dodges, grow up and deal with reality. McCain just cemented the death of yet another neocon propaganda point.

 

[taichiliberal]

Has anyone ever read about McCain's POW treatment? Say what you want today - and I do - but you have to give him credit for his actions and behavior under horrid and evil conditions. That he survived at all is amazing. I would give more credence to his argument than to Bush Jr and Cheney, both draft dodgers.

I have, which is why I find his arguments less credible. I know you like them simply because you like what he is saying, and that is the only criteria you ever use in making a judgement, but he is flat out wrong in the way he argues against torture.

Well...of course that is why they like him NOW. During the presidential campaign the lefties were running around claiming reports of John McCain actually being tortured were untrue or over exaggerated.

But then...that was then wasn't it....

Liars usually stay in the shadows. And Windbags are of little substance.

Neither of you clods can produce valid evidence that in no uncertain terms back your claims and assertions.

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain.

 

[California Girl]

If only John McCain were a democratic....

so many of you libs would have chosen him over your 0ssiah....

Shoulda Woulda Coulda....

why is it when there's no response, do righties start with the 'ossiah'/'messiah' stuff?

and no... i wouldn't have voted for mccain 2008... that mccain was the person who decided to play his chips with the radical right. now... mccain 2000? THAT was a decent man.

y'all broke him.

Oh the bright side, at least he was once a decent man. Unlike the left's Messiah.

 

[California Girl]

 

[taichiliberal]

If only John McCain were a democratic....

so many of you libs would have chosen him over your 0ssiah....

Shoulda Woulda Coulda....

why is it when there's no response, do righties start with the 'ossiah'/'messiah' stuff?

and no... i wouldn't have voted for mccain 2008... that mccain was the person who decided to play his chips with the radical right. now... mccain 2000? THAT was a decent man.

y'all broke him.

Oh the bright side, at least he was once a decent man. Unlike the left's Messiah.

Actually, it was some neocon blogger who started all this "messiah" crap as a slam/slur against Obama and his supporters. It was a desperate act by intellectually bankrupt GOP campaigners to try and fool their low information voters that they were stuck with a morals compromised candidate and his fuzzbrained running mate.

In case you didn't get the memo, Cali Girl....THE GOP LOST THE 2008 ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE.

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain. Deal with it.

 

[taichiliberal]

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain....and willfully ignorant folk like Cali Girl just can't stand it.

 

[California Girl]

why is it when there's no response, do righties start with the 'ossiah'/'messiah' stuff?

and no... i wouldn't have voted for mccain 2008... that mccain was the person who decided to play his chips with the radical right. now... mccain 2000? THAT was a decent man.

y'all broke him.

Oh the bright side, at least he was once a decent man. Unlike the left's Messiah.

Actually, it was some neocon blogger who started all this "messiah" crap as a slam/slur against Obama and his supporters. It was a desperate act by intellectually bankrupt GOP campaigners to try and fool their low information voters that they were stuck with a morals compromised candidate and his fuzzbrained running mate.

In case you didn't get the memo, Cali Girl....THE GOP LOST THE 2008 ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE.

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain. Deal with it.

You're mistaking me for someone who voted for McCain. Idiot.

Bottom line: Treating terrorists to a latte and a cupcake ain't gonna get us what we need. Go ahead and live in liberal la-la-land if you want to - I prefer reality. It's safer.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you can provide the actual quote from McCain that states what you claim, then your babbling might actually make sense. If not, then you're just a Quantum Windbag.

Direct quote? If only I could find one, I guess I will just have to admit you got me.

Oops, I guess I don't.

I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

News Hounds: Is Fox News Ignoring John McCain's Statements On Torture And The Death Of Bin Laden?

Like I said, if he stuck with the position that it was wrong I would have no problem, but he can't agree that it works and then argue we should not use it because it does not work. Once you get someone talking you can weed out the bad intelligence from the good, but if they sit there and stare at you you get nothing.

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

Exactly. It works.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance.

McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It wasn't the Dems who slandered McCain during the GOP primary, was it bunky? You can thank call Rove and company for that.
The "maverick" legend of McCain was the policies he professed that were not in step with the GOP party line....policies that he threw out the window to gain the 2008 title.

And how in the hell can you claim that McCain proves "torture works" when McCain broke and signed a FALSE CONFESSION?

Not only are you a Quantum Windbag, but you're also a neocon revisionist on par with the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Maulkin, Levin, Savage, Crowley, Newsbusters, the WND, etc., etc.

Which time? I remember plenty of attacks on McCain about the Keating 5 that I know came from Democrats even before he was officially nominated. I know you missed that, but you missed everything that did not happen last week.

WTF are you going on about? I never professed that McCain was a solid gold icon worshipped by non-Republicans/conservative wingnuts, did I now?

Bottom Line: What I stated is dead on FACT that YOU can't Windbag your way past. So spare us all the lame dodges, grow up and deal with reality. McCain just cemented the death of yet another neocon propaganda point.

You said that it was not liberals who attacked McCain during the primaries, I pointed out you were wrong. You, as usual, responded by moving the goal posts.

 

[JBeukema]

And how in the hell can you claim that McCain proves "torture works" when McCain broke and signed a FALSE CONFESSION?

Exactly, torture works.

You can people to say anything you want.

 

[taichiliberal]

Oh the bright side, at least he was once a decent man. Unlike the left's Messiah.

Actually, it was some neocon blogger who started all this "messiah" crap as a slam/slur against Obama and his supporters. It was a desperate act by intellectually bankrupt GOP campaigners to try and fool their low information voters that they were stuck with a morals compromised candidate and his fuzzbrained running mate.

In case you didn't get the memo, Cali Girl....THE GOP LOST THE 2008 ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE.

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain. Deal with it.

You're mistaking me for someone who voted for McCain. Idiot.

I never said you did vote for him, did I genius? I'm just educating your dopey ass on reality as opposed to the painfully obvious neocon mantras you so love to regurgitate.

Bottom line: Treating terrorists to a latte and a cupcake ain't gonna get us what we need. Go ahead and live in liberal la-la-land if you want to - I prefer reality. It's safer.

Notice folks, that Cali girl spews forth the usual neocon talking points, but doesn't have the guts to stand by them. Then she just ignores the REALITY that her precious Shrub induced fantasy WAS A LIE.

No one said treat terrorists like cupcakes....once again Cali girl's neocon revisionism kicks in.

The concrete proof exposes the lie that torture got Bin Laden...a matter of fact, a matter of history....and intellectually bankrupt neocon toadies like Cali girl just can't handle it, so she deludes herself in the comfort of an oft repeated neocon lie.... so much more to pity Cali girl.

 

[Charles_Main]

Whether or not torture works is the wrong argument.

If merely demonstrating that torture works is a sufficient argument to justify its use,

then why not use torture throughout law enforcement and criminal investigation?

And if you do not think Water Boarding rises to the Level of Torture? What then?

And you people that believe the BS that Torture does not work are fools. If it does not work, how do you explain it's being used effectively through out history to gain intel? You really think people have been doing it for Thousands of years even though it never works? Get real.

 

[Charles_Main]

Actually, it was some neocon blogger who started all this "messiah" crap as a slam/slur against Obama and his supporters. It was a desperate act by intellectually bankrupt GOP campaigners to try and fool their low information voters that they were stuck with a morals compromised candidate and his fuzzbrained running mate.

In case you didn't get the memo, Cali Girl....THE GOP LOST THE 2008 ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE.

Bottom line: McCain was tortured into signing a false confession. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: KSM gave up Bin Laden's courier under standard interrogation procedure, not waterboarding.

Bottom line: another neocon propaganda piece bites the dust, thanks to John McCain. Deal with it.

You're mistaking me for someone who voted for McCain. Idiot.

I never said you did vote for him, did I genius? I'm just educating your dopey ass on reality as opposed to the painfully obvious neocon mantras you so love to regurgitate.

Bottom line: Treating terrorists to a latte and a cupcake ain't gonna get us what we need. Go ahead and live in liberal la-la-land if you want to - I prefer reality. It's safer.

Notice folks, that Cali girl spews forth the usual neocon talking points, but doesn't have the guts to stand by them. Then she just ignores the REALITY that her precious Shrub induced fantasy WAS A LIE.

No one said treat terrorists like cupcakes....once again Cali girl's neocon revisionism kicks in.

The concrete proof exposes the lie that torture got Bin Laden...a matter of fact, a matter of history....and intellectually bankrupt neocon toadies like Cali girl just can't handle it, so she deludes herself in the comfort of an oft repeated neocon lie.... so much more to pity Cali girl.

Of course Torture didn't help Get UBL. Because Water boarding and sleep deprivation are NOT TORTURE. However enhanced Interrogations, Open Ended Incarcerations, Black sites, and not GIVING them Lawyers. Absolutely did contribute in a big way to getting UBL.

Go ahead Deny it.

 

[taichiliberal]

Direct quote? If only I could find one, I guess I will just have to admit you got me.

Oops, I guess I don't.

News Hounds: Is Fox News Ignoring John McCain's Statements On Torture And The Death Of Bin Laden?

Like I said, if he stuck with the position that it was wrong I would have no problem, but he can't agree that it works and then argue we should not use it because it does not work. Once you get someone talking you can weed out the bad intelligence from the good, but if they sit there and stare at you you get nothing.

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

Exactly. It works.

What, the insipid stubborness of a Quantum Windbag? Yeah, it works for you, bunky.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil.
The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS, as the public statements of Peter King and Dick Cheney and various neocon politicos and pundits will attest to. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance. Actually, it's been somewhat of a policy since WWII....we tried and convicted Japanese military for waterboarding American POWS...it was a "war crime", don't cha know?
McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS. Whether we like McCain or agree with his political record in the last 10 years...when he's right, he's right....and little neocon toadies like the Quantum Windbag just can't stand it!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Bottom line: Treating terrorists to a latte and a cupcake ain't gonna get us what we need. Go ahead and live in liberal la-la-land if you want to - I prefer reality. It's safer.

It’s also illegal and un-Constitutional – but that’s never bothered the right with other issues. You may be willing to surrender your liberty for security – but I’m not.

 

[taichiliberal]

Which time? I remember plenty of attacks on McCain about the Keating 5 that I know came from Democrats even before he was officially nominated. I know you missed that, but you missed everything that did not happen last week.

WTF are you going on about? I never professed that McCain was a solid gold icon worshipped by non-Republicans/conservative wingnuts, did I now?

Bottom Line: What I stated is dead on FACT that YOU can't Windbag your way past. So spare us all the lame dodges, grow up and deal with reality. McCain just cemented the death of yet another neocon propaganda point.

You said that it was not liberals who attacked McCain during the primaries, I pointed out you were wrong. You, as usual, responded by moving the goal posts.

The Quantum Windbag tries to lie despite the recorded post proving him wrong. I stated that it was those within the GOP who slandered McCain during the GOP primary...and that is a bonafide FACT....they went after the man's family and tried to infer that McCain was hiding an illegitimate black child. Dems did NOT do that....there's difference between attacking a man's political record and trying to slander his personal character. Do your damned homework, you Quantum Windbag