Sweet reality!

[taichiliberal]

You're mistaking me for someone who voted for McCain. Idiot.

I never said you did vote for him, did I genius? I'm just educating your dopey ass on reality as opposed to the painfully obvious neocon mantras you so love to regurgitate.

Bottom line: Treating terrorists to a latte and a cupcake ain't gonna get us what we need. Go ahead and live in liberal la-la-land if you want to - I prefer reality. It's safer.

Notice folks, that Cali girl spews forth the usual neocon talking points, but doesn't have the guts to stand by them. Then she just ignores the REALITY that her precious Shrub induced fantasy WAS A LIE.

No one said treat terrorists like cupcakes....once again Cali girl's neocon revisionism kicks in.

The concrete proof exposes the lie that torture got Bin Laden...a matter of fact, a matter of history....and intellectually bankrupt neocon toadies like Cali girl just can't handle it, so she deludes herself in the comfort of an oft repeated neocon lie.... so much more to pity Cali girl.

Of course Torture didn't help Get UBL. Because Water boarding and sleep deprivation are NOT TORTURE. However enhanced Interrogations, Open Ended Incarcerations, Black sites, and not GIVING them Lawyers. Absolutely did contribute in a big way to getting UBL.

Go ahead Deny it.

Stop babbling, Charlie......it's been documented six ways to Sunday that Standard interrogation techniques got the name of Bin Laden's courier.....NOT black sites, NOT "enchanced interrogations", NOT Torture, NOT waterboarding. Documented by records and testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee, documented by Panetta. With that information, INTELLIGENCE work and surveillance lead to the safe house observation, and the final call for the Seal Team Six.

Grow the fuck up and deal with it Charlie....another Shrub legacy bites the dust.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

Exactly. It works.

What, the insipid stubborness of a Quantum Windbag? Yeah, it works for you, bunky.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil.
The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS, as the public statements of Peter King and Dick Cheney and various neocon politicos and pundits will attest to. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance. Actually, it's been somewhat of a policy since WWII....we tried and convicted Japanese military for waterboarding American POWS...it was a "war crime", don't cha know?
McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS. Whether we like McCain or agree with his political record in the last 10 years...when he's right, he's right....and little neocon toadies like the Quantum Windbag just can't stand it!

You keep editing my posts and I will report you.

Leon Panetta said that enhanced interrogation techniques led to some of the intelligence that led to bin Laden. To counter that you post quotations from random Senators that are not actually in the loop and do not have the information he does. Which one would you believe if it was something you were not something you were being blindly partisan about?

 

[taichiliberal]

Exactly. It works.

What, the insipid stubborness of a Quantum Windbag? Yeah, it works for you, bunky.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. Standard Interrogation got KSM to reveal the Bin Laden Courier. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil.
The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS, as the public statements of Peter King and Dick Cheney and various neocon politicos and pundits will attest to. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance. Actually, it's been somewhat of a policy since WWII....we tried and convicted Japanese military for waterboarding American POWS...it was a "war crime", don't cha know?
McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS. Whether we like McCain or agree with his political record in the last 10 years...when he's right, he's right....and little neocon toadies like the Quantum Windbag just can't stand it!

You keep editing my posts and I will report you.

Learn to read, you ignorant Windbag. I didn't change one iota of your post....I merely placed my different colored responses precisely where the reader will see what I'm responding to. Since you neocon numbskulls don't have a leg to stand on, you grasp at ole neocon talking point straws and then repeat your BS ad nauseum.

Leon Panetta said that enhanced interrogation techniques led to some of the intelligence that led to bin Laden. No, my stupid Windbag, he did not...and I defy you to produce the EXACT quote where he states that in no uncertain terms. To counter that you post quotations from random Senators that are not actually in the loop and do not have the information he does. Which one would you believe if it was something you were not something you were being blindly partisan about?

Again, please post the the EXACT quote where Panetta states that in no uncertain terms. Now you act like some stupid little kid pissed that you lost an argument and call senior senator John McCain...former 2008 GOP Presidential candidate, who sat on the Commerce, Science, and Transportation committee, and former chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, a "random Senator"

To date, Panetta has NOT made a public refutation of what McCain states. And unlike a great Windbag such as yourself, I've kept up on all the information regarding this situation...here's a short laundry list that I'm sure you'll give a Quantum Windbag review:


Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden’s Whereabouts

Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden

 

[California Girl]

TouchyLiberal is too stupid to use the quote function properly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Quantum Windbag blows mucho BS. Whether we like McCain or agree with his political record in the last 10 years...when he's right, he's right....and little neocon toadies like the Quantum Windbag just can't stand it!

You keep editing my posts and I will report you.

Learn to read, you ignorant Windbag. I didn't change one iota of your post....I merely placed my different colored responses precisely where the reader will see what I'm responding to. Since you neocon numbskulls don't have a leg to stand on, you grasp at ole neocon talking point straws and then repeat your BS ad nauseum.

Leon Panetta said that enhanced interrogation techniques led to some of the intelligence that led to bin Laden. No, my stupid Windbag, he did not...and I defy you to produce the EXACT quote where he states that in no uncertain terms. To counter that you post quotations from random Senators that are not actually in the loop and do not have the information he does. Which one would you believe if it was something you were not something you were being blindly partisan about?

Again, please post the the EXACT quote where Panetta states that in no uncertain terms. Now you act like some stupid little kid pissed that you lost an argument and call senior senator John McCain...former 2008 GOP Presidential candidate, who sat on the Commerce, Science, and Transportation committee, and former chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, a "random Senator"

To date, Panetta has NOT made a public refutation of what McCain states. And unlike a great Windbag such as yourself, I've kept up on all the information regarding this situation...here's a short laundry list that I'm sure you'll give a Quantum Windbag review:


Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden’s Whereabouts

Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden

You added words to my post, that is a clear violation of the rules. Do it one more time and you can debate it with the mods, not me.

 

[taichiliberal]

TouchyLiberal is too stupid to use the quote function properly.

See why Cali Girl is trying to latch on to the latest dodge:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/167252-sweet-reality-3.html#post3641906

I leave our clownish Cali Girl to laugh herself stupid (or more stupid, as the case may be).

 

[taichiliberal]

You keep editing my posts and I will report you.

Learn to read, you ignorant Windbag. I didn't change one iota of your post....I merely placed my different colored responses precisely where the reader will see what I'm responding to. Since you neocon numbskulls don't have a leg to stand on, you grasp at ole neocon talking point straws and then repeat your BS ad nauseum.

Leon Panetta said that enhanced interrogation techniques led to some of the intelligence that led to bin Laden. No, my stupid Windbag, he did not...and I defy you to produce the EXACT quote where he states that in no uncertain terms. To counter that you post quotations from random Senators that are not actually in the loop and do not have the information he does. Which one would you believe if it was something you were not something you were being blindly partisan about?

Again, please post the the EXACT quote where Panetta states that in no uncertain terms. Now you act like some stupid little kid pissed that you lost an argument and call senior senator John McCain...former 2008 GOP Presidential candidate, who sat on the Commerce, Science, and Transportation committee, and former chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, a "random Senator"

To date, Panetta has NOT made a public refutation of what McCain states. And unlike a great Windbag such as yourself, I've kept up on all the information regarding this situation...here's a short laundry list that I'm sure you'll give a Quantum Windbag review:


Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden’s Whereabouts

Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden

You added words to my post, that is a clear violation of the rules. Do it one more time and you can debate it with the mods, not me.

Read the rules, you stupid ass Windbag. I didn't "add" anything to your post, I RESPONDED...which is why my words are in a DIFFERENT COLOR FONT, so the reader can discern who is saying what and why. Your words are left intact, unedited. No rule against that, but you can bitch to the monitors about it if it'll help you sleep at night.

That YOU can read and understand everything that has transpired points to the bogus nature of your complaint.

Bottom line folks; this intellectually bankrupt Windbag can't logically or factually refute what I'm stating, and the Windbag doesn't have the guts to meet a simple challenge for a burden of proof regarding Panetta's public statements. So now he's doing this Quantum lame ass dodge.

Once again, the Quantum Windbag lives up to his screen name.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Again, please post the the EXACT quote where Panetta states that in no uncertain terms. Now you act like some stupid little kid pissed that you lost an argument and call senior senator John McCain...former 2008 GOP Presidential candidate, who sat on the Commerce, Science, and Transportation committee, and former chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs, a "random Senator"

To date, Panetta has NOT made a public refutation of what McCain states. And unlike a great Windbag such as yourself, I've kept up on all the information regarding this situation...here's a short laundry list that I'm sure you'll give a Quantum Windbag review:


Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden’s Whereabouts

Fact Sheet: Officials Say Torture Did Not Reveal Bin Laden

You added words to my post, that is a clear violation of the rules. Do it one more time and you can debate it with the mods, not me.

Read the rules, you stupid ass Windbag. I didn't "add" anything to your post, I RESPONDED...which is why my words are in a DIFFERENT COLOR FONT, so the reader can discern who is saying what and why. Your words are left intact, unedited. No rule against that, but you can bitch to the monitors about it if it'll help you sleep at night.

That YOU can read and understand everything that has transpired points to the bogus nature of your complaint.

Bottom line folks; this intellectually bankrupt Windbag can't logically or factually refute what I'm stating, and the Windbag doesn't have the guts to meet a simple challenge for a burden of proof regarding Panetta's public statements. So now he's doing this Quantum lame ass dodge.

Once again, the Quantum Windbag lives up to his screen name.

Like I said, do it one more time and you can argue about the rules with the mods. If you add words to my post you are changing them, which is against the rules as I read them.

 

[Rinata]

Has anyone ever read about McCain's POW treatment? Say what you want today - and I do - but you have to give him credit for his actions and behavior under horrid and evil conditions. That he survived at all is amazing. I would give more credence to his argument than to Bush Jr and Cheney, both draft dodgers.

I have, which is why I find his arguments less credible. I know you like them simply because you like what he is saying, and that is the only criteria you ever use in making a judgement, but he is flat out wrong in the way he argues against torture.

Well...of course that is why they like him NOW. During the presidential campaign the lefties were running around claiming reports of John McCain actually being tortured were untrue or over exaggerated.

But then...that was then wasn't it....

I think not!!! Do you have any proof??? I think that is just crap. And I do not recall that at all.

 

[Rinata]

If only John McCain were a democratic....

so many of you libs would have chosen him over your 0ssiah....

Shoulda Woulda Coulda....

Why don't you knock it off with that crap?? It was you people that started all of those stupid names for Obama during the 2008 campaign. And the only people that refer to Obama, in such a way, are the right wing low information voters.

Yeah, I know what's coming now.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Whether or not torture works is the wrong argument.

If merely demonstrating that torture works is a sufficient argument to justify its use,

then why not use torture throughout law enforcement and criminal investigation?

And if you do not think Water Boarding rises to the Level of Torture? What then?

And you people that believe the BS that Torture does not work are fools. If it does not work, how do you explain it's being used effectively through out history to gain intel? You really think people have been doing it for Thousands of years even though it never works? Get real.

What was your answer to the question?

Why not use torture throughout our law enforcement and criminal investigation system?

Given your belief that it is an effective tool, why deny its use to our own police forces?

Isn't the safety of our citizens the top priority?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Direct quote? If only I could find one, I guess I will just have to admit you got me.

Oops, I guess I don't.

News Hounds: Is Fox News Ignoring John McCain's Statements On Torture And The Death Of Bin Laden?

Like I said, if he stuck with the position that it was wrong I would have no problem, but he can't agree that it works and then argue we should not use it because it does not work. Once you get someone talking you can weed out the bad intelligence from the good, but if they sit there and stare at you you get nothing.

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

Exactly. It works.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance.

McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

It doesn't matter if it works or doesn't work.

This fallacious framing of the argument is the real problem with all of this torture debate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, here's the bottom line quote from McCain on torture: "..... sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Bottom line: KSM gave the Bin Laden couriers name under standard interrogation procedure and NOT water boarding. A matter of fact and history.

Bottom line: McCain signed a FALSE CONFESSION as a result of brutal torture.

So your supposition and conjecture is just a Quantum Windbag.

Exactly. It works.

The goal of interrogation is to get people talking. Once they start talking you can pick apart their lies and find the truth. The debate never was about it working at all except in the minds of liberals who refuse to admit the difference between good and evil. The government of the US should not use torture, a simple, moral, stance.

McCain was so wishy washy because he wanted to be president that he was not willing to take a moral stance. He tried to base his opposition to torture on efficacy instead, and now looks like an idiot.

It doesn't matter if it works or doesn't work.

This fallacious framing of the argument is the real problem with all of this torture debate.

Did you ever learn to read?

I have repeatedly stated that the government should not use torture. How is that statement in anyway other than the depths of your obviously braindead imagination an attempt to reframe anything? What I am objecting to is exactly the same thing you claim to be objecting to, you are just upset because you have me defined as a right-wingnut and refuse to understand that the world is a lot more complex than left and right.

Fuck you.