Superior Culture?

[sky dancer]

Ooops did it again, multiple replies to multiple replies to multiple posts. Superiority complex perchance?

That is not what she said. I think what she is getting at is when one thinks of themselves as superior to another being then trouble follows for the "inferior"

Really, so do you do your killings in secret? All of those stoning have to happen somewhere.

Your assertion is that Islam needs to evolve a bit?

The only religion in this day in age 2008 who openly advocates war is Islam. Granted it is mostly the fundamentalists ....... still.

Do the Buddhists believe in self defense?

As long as the culture that claims to use their superiority as justification for war then that would be a misuse of the claim, IMO.

Do Buddhist believe in self defense? Buddhist teachers would say it depends on your motivation. There are refinements according to motivation. The best motivation is concern for others--not self importance. So a really pure bodhisattva may choose to kill someone who intends to blow up the world trade center, for example, and take on the karma of going to the hell realms for the deed in order to prevent the murderer from committing a heinous crime.

Buddhists do defend ourselves. If the defense results in non-virtue then we have the consequences of that non-virtue. We are all sentient beings, so caring for ourselves is an act of kindness.

The problem with have with claims of inferiority or superiority is that they can be used as justification for genocide, war, and conquest.

 

[eots]

I don't speak harshly to my slave in public either. Nor do I make her cover up her punishments though.

Thing is, obey or leave is much more humane than obey or DIE.

There is something to be said for consent.

I think you are mistaken that these woman do not prefer their modesty
and I know the difference between a real smile and a loving look of a father
and one of fear and control..is it really that hard to belive that woman would desire to be modest in their sexuality and marry as a virgin ,,betroth themselves to one and have children and raise a family..as opposed to the American girls gone wild culture of today.....

 

[Ravi]

I've seen her give different answer to the same questions depending on who is interviewing her. It's also possible to interpret her written words in ways that suit whomever. I believe she does that intentionally because she is a smart operator.

Maybe she's writing a bible. Pretty cool to see Sunni posting "facts" from a blog that contains a post called America’s Israeli-Occupied Media

 

[FireGod]

As long as the culture that claims to use their superiority as justification for war then that would be a misuse of the claim, IMO.

Do Buddhist believe in self defense? Buddhist teachers would say it depends on your motivation. There are refinements according to motivation. The best motivation is concern for others--not self importance. So a really pure bodhisattva may choose to kill someone who intends to blow up the world trade center, for example, and take on the karma of going to the hell realms for the deed in order to prevent the murderer from committing a heinous crime.

Buddhists do defend ourselves. If the defense results in non-virtue then we have the consequences of that non-virtue. We are all sentient beings, so caring for ourselves is an act of kindness.

The problem with have with claims of inferiority or superiority is that they can be used as justification for genocide, war, and conquest.

I submit that by the very use of the term superiority in and of it's self is karmically challenged in regards to society or religion especially. BTW by and large we agree. Going to war to wipe out the infidels/nonbelievers/heathens/natives etc. is just bad policy not to mention ignorant.

 

[FireGod]

I think you are mistaken that these woman do not prefer their modesty and I know the difference between a real smile and a loving look of a father and one of fear and control..is it really that hard to believe that woman would desire to be modest in their sexuality and marry as a virgin ,,betroth themselves to one and have children and raise a family..as opposed to the American girls gone wild culture of today.....

I am not mistaken at all. I am pointing out that they are indoctrinated into a very controlled life, for better or worse. I do find it hard to believe that forced genital mutilation is right. I do find that arranged marriages are wrong, especially when it is for money and/or power. As long as there is informed consent between adults they may do or not do as they please. I do find that being told that you are going to marry that is not of your choosing to be very wrong. By the way, do you expect the man to also be a virgin on the wedding day?

 

[midcan5]

Taranto is at best a biased source for any information concerning Islam, figures he would select another bigot for their opinion. But how does society manage ideologies that possess the truth, when those truths conflict with each other. I was reading Jeremy Waldron's piece on Salman Rushdie where he asked the question, how can we be tolerant of a religion that asked that Rushdie be killed for blasphemy? The issue then is to make religion tolerant, and if religion becomes tolerant maybe Taranto and Wilders will be too. Any hope there you think?

 

[sky dancer]

I submit that by the very use of the term superiority in and of it's self is karmically challenged in regards to society or religion especially. BTW by and large we agree. Going to war to wipe out the infidels/nonbelievers/heathens/natives etc. is just bad policy not to mention ignorant.

I think the problem with superiority claims is that it is always relative. Superior to whom?

Most religious traditions teach that their own path is superior to others and make claims to back up the assertion. Buddhism is unique....blah, blah, blah and Christianity blah, blah and Islam blah, blah, blah.

Buddhism is a superior path FOR BUDDHISTS--not for Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Jains, agnostics, rational humanists etc.

 

[catzmeow]

I submit that by the very use of the term superiority in and of it's self is karmically challenged in regards to society or religion especially. BTW by and large we agree. Going to war to wipe out the infidels/nonbelievers/heathens/natives etc. is just bad policy not to mention ignorant.

I think there is a difference between weighing cultures and evaluating them strenuously based upon their treatment of other humans, and taking a further step to wipe out a particular culture.

I can say: "Islam, as it presently exists, is inferior to a culture that promotes tolerance of all faiths, the rule of law, and fair treatment of women," without deciding to go to war with Islam. Wind is relying upon the slippery slope fallacy. Recognizing that one form of behavior is superior to another, or more productive, or more humane, does NOT necessarily equate to destroying less humane cultures.

An alternative method would be, for instance, to fund programs that promote female education and economic independence in these countries, such as programs that are currently funded by the UN.

 

[catzmeow]

But how does society manage ideologies that possess the truth, when those truths conflict with each other. I was reading Jeremy Waldron's piece on Salman Rushdie where he asked the question, how can we be tolerant of a religion that asked that Rushdie be killed for blasphemy? The issue then is to make religion tolerant, and if religion becomes tolerant maybe Taranto and Wilders will be too. Any hope there you think?

I think the key is in creating democracies where the rights of the minorities are protected, and fighting theocracy, in all forms.

 

[FireGod]

I think the problem with superiority claims is that it is always relative. Superior to whom?

Most religious traditions teach that their own path is superior to others and make claims to back up the assertion. Buddhism is unique....blah, blah, blah and Christianity blah, blah and Islam blah, blah, blah.

Buddhism is a superior path FOR BUDDHISTS--not for Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, Jains, agnostics, rational humanists etc.

Again we agree.

The problem is when any religion/society etc feels that their way is best for all others in the world. That way leads to conflict of superiority and disrespect for others based on arrogance.

 

[Anguille]

Maybe she's writing a bible. Pretty cool to see Sunni posting "facts" from a blog that contains a post called America’s Israeli-Occupied Media

Can't be anything worse than the right wing think tank she now works for, the American Enterprise Institute, called " ...one of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy."
American Enterprise Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Economist calls her " ... a chameleon of a woman."
A critic of Islam | Dark secrets | Economist.com

 

[catzmeow]

Again we agree.

The problem is when any religion/society etc feels that their way is best for all others in the world. That way leads to conflict of superiority and disrespect for others based on arrogance.

You mean like when Islamists decide that gays/lesbians are evil and tainted, and Allah wants them dead?

How is the rest of the world to respond to that sort of arrogance? Stand back, do nothing, because "that's their culture"? Or determine that, "this behavior is not acceptable, in fact, it is barbaric, and should be sanctioned by the civilized nations of the world."

What if the world had looked at apartheid, and said, "well, it's evil and ugly and barbaric and all, but that's their culture, and they have a way to act that way in South Africa"?

 

[sky dancer]

Again we agree.

The problem is when any religion/society etc feels that their way is best for all others in the world. That way leads to conflict of superiority and disrespect for others based on arrogance.

And massive costly mistakes........

 

[Anguille]

I think there is a difference between weighing cultures and evaluating them strenuously based upon their treatment of other humans, and taking a further step to wipe out a particular culture.

I can say: "Islam, as it presently exists, is inferior to a culture that promotes tolerance of all faiths, the rule of law, and fair treatment of women," without deciding to go to war with Islam. Wind is relying upon the slippery slope fallacy. Recognizing that one form of behavior is superior to another, or more productive, or more humane, does NOT necessarily equate to destroying less humane cultures.

An alternative method would be, for instance, to fund programs that promote female education and economic independence in these countries, such as programs that are currently funded by the UN.

As someone who had problems with being labeled by Christians because of her atheism, you should think twice before labeling Muslims or confusing a religion with political and enthic issues.

 

[sky dancer]

There is always the argument that a certain path of spiritual practice is inferior because of the behavior of some extremists.

That's oversimplifying and generalizing.

Religion is not inherently evil, nor is it universally pure.

 

[Anguille]

I think the key is in creating democracies where the rights of the minorities are protected, and fighting theocracy, in all forms.

Would that include the UK? The UK is a theocracy.
I agree that democracy is the best way we can come up with for governing a nation and am anti-theocratic but it does exist in near harmless forms.

 

[Anguille]

I was reading Jeremy Waldron's piece on Salman Rushdie where he asked the question, how can we be tolerant of a religion that asked that Rushdie be killed for blasphemy?

Why would Waldron think that a few right wing mullahs in Iran spoke for all of Islam? Does the Pope own all of Christendom? If to be Muslim means you must murder Salmon Rushdie, how it it he is still alive?

 

[Anguille]

Religion is not inherently evil, nor is it universally pure.

That is my view also. Religion is like all humans neither good nor bad but a little of both and like every invention, liable to to misuse.

 

[FireGod]

You mean like when Islamists decide that gays/lesbians are evil and tainted, and Allah wants them dead?

A lot of Christians, Jews atheists etc. feel the same way.

How is the rest of the world to respond to that sort of arrogance? Stand back, do nothing, because "that's their culture"? Or determine that, "this behavior is not acceptable, in fact, it is barbaric, and should be not be sanctioned by the civilized nations of the world."

The point is that arrogance breeds arrogance. I agree that killing/harming someone is for their views/lifestyle is WRONG. I also believe that it is somewhat universal that slavery is wrong. Either way a lot more can be accomplished with education and compassion than with outright destruction interventionism, Take your career for example, what works better bullets or talk? We in the west find stoning people because they are gay or adulterers to be offensive in our world view. They do not. That does not give us the right to go over there and overthrow the government. It does give us a right to express our views on their society (economic sanctions etc.), it does give us right to help those who wish to escape and it does give us the right to intervene if the populace at large requests it.

What if the world had looked at apartheid, and said, "well, it's evil and ugly and barbaric and all, but that's their culture, and they have a way to act that way in South Africa"?

When did we invade South Africa again, I seem to have missed that.

 

[catzmeow]

As someone who had problems with being labeled by Christians because of her atheism, you should think twice before labeling Muslims or confusing a religion with political and enthic issues.

Source for this claim? Are you suggesting that I've had problems with being labeled by Christians?

First, i'm not an atheist. Secondly, I think you've mistaken me for someone else. I've lived as a person of a minority faith for much of my life, first as a Southern Baptist living in Utah, for ten years, and then, as an agnostic living waaaayyyy below the bible belt for the past 9 years. I understand the need for the rights of minority faiths to be protected. I also know that much of what some of these groups do is detrimental to society as a whole.

Consider the polygamist sects in Texas, Arizona, and Utah. Are you suggesting that we should allow girls to be married off at 14 to men in their fifties because "that is their culture"? I'm sorry...treating women like second-class citizens, marrying off children to pedophiles is an inferior and barbaric form of behavior.