Subsidized Housing - WTF?

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
Ignoring any Constitutional issues for a moment, I've been thinking a lot about the subject of "subsidized housing" (for the Poor) lately.

In my little hamlet of Pittsburgh, there is a large tract of land currently available within easy walking distance of the CBD (for those of you not familiar with gov-speak, that is the "central business district," or as well call it in Pittsburgh "Dahn-Tahn"). The "Civic Arena," former home of the Pittsburgh Penguins was demolished to create this large highly-desirable space, and with the recent trend of Urban Professionals wanting to move into the central city, developers are salivating at the money to be made building condo's and high-rent apartments so close to the CBD. They are paying lip service to "green space" and similar nonsensical concepts, but the bottom line is that this space is a potential development goldmine, theoretically owned and controlled by the Pittsburgh Penguins.

When the Civic Arena was erected in the early 60's, the neighborhood that was razed to make way was called the "lower Hill District," which was a predominantly-"Negro" neighborhood. At that time, it was universally considered an "improvement" to destroy the old dilapidated housing to make way for a space-age sports arena that looked like a giant flying saucer. With a retractable roof, no less.

Now, predictably, the Movers & Shakers of the Pittsburgh African American community are "demanding" that a substantial percentage of the housing to be built in this desirable area be reserved for folks whose household income is, shall we say, modest. If their desires are to be met, then the "market rate" apartments in the newly-developed area will range from, say $1,200/mo for an efficiency apartment to $3-4 thousand a month for a spacious 2 or three bedroom apartment, while similar apartments will rent for, with various subsidies, say $4-700 per month.

Again, ignoring the United States Constitution (which prohibits the Federal Government from getting involved in HOUSING), I have no problem with incentivizing and subsidizing the construction of housing for people living in poverty. No one who plays by the rules should ever be homeless in the U.S.

But subsidized housing should be constructed in the places where it is easiest and cheapest to construct it, not in areas which are, shall we say, "aspirational."

This CBD housing in Pittsburgh will be prized in the marketplace. People will aspire to live so close to work, good restaurants, and cultural resources; they will pay a premium and possibly even sacrifice such luxuries as owning a car in order to live in such a desirable location. And their neighbors will be on public assistance?

I don't buy it.
 
Are you saying the poor and the aged and disabled that need housing subsidies should live in an area not desirable for more affluent people?
 
Again, ignoring the United States Constitution (which prohibits the Federal Government from getting involved in HOUSING),.

Well lets not ignore that completely- where does that U.S. Constitution say that?
 
But subsidized housing should be constructed in the places where it is easiest and cheapest to construct it, not in areas which are, shall we say, "aspirational."

This CBD housing in Pittsburgh will be prized in the marketplace. People will aspire to live so close to work, good restaurants, and cultural resources; they will pay a premium and possibly even sacrifice such luxuries as owning a car in order to live in such a desirable location. And their neighbors will be on public assistance?

I don't buy it.

Since you provided no links- I can't easily check out what it is you are complaining about.

But this sounds like an essentially local issue- an issue to be decided by the city of Pittsburgh.

If the citizens of Pittsburgh decide this is their priority- why would i object?
 
(1) Yes, Penelope, that is exactly what I am saying. If something is provided by the Taxpayers (and NOT "the Government," which has no money), the principle consideration should be cost-effectiveness, not making the recipients feel good about themselves.

(2) Syriusly, PLEASE glance at the U.S. Constitution. It will be truly enlightening. Article I addresses the "powers" of Congress, which are listed, comprehensively, in Section 8. The Tenth Amendment states that the powers NOT GRANTED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT are reserved to the States and the People. Thus, making nice residences for people who cannot afford them is something that is reserved to the states and/or the generosity of the people. Congress is prohibited from spending MY money on such niceties.

(3) The "people of Pittsburgh" have a voice in this, only in the sense that one self-interest group is making a lot of noise and some of the Pittsburgh politicians (ALL Democrats, I might add) are listening. But sadly and ironically, the City of Pittsburgh will pay near nothing in this whole thing. The developers will be forced to forego millions in potential revenues from desiring renters who can, and are willing to, pay "market" rents; the State will ante up some money, as will the Feds.
 
You should visit Cincinnati.
They have spread out section 8 etc. housing throughout the city, even in prime areas.
I stayed there for 2 nights on business this summer. Stayed in a nice hotel, almost in the heart of downtown.
If I walked out the door on one side of the hotel everything is great...nice area..nice restaurants..well dressed people walking around. But literally on the same city block, but on the other side - it is trashed. Noisy/Rude black people congregating everywhere - yelling profanity damn near 24 hours a day.
Cincinatti's crime map is all over the place...very much in small pockets dotted all over the city proper.
 
Real estate is the little secret that ZOG keeps secret. If an average section 8 recipient (criminal) actually had to pay for their rent, they would not be doing what they do. Who are the landlords today and how did they get there, (they definitely did not work for it).
 
You should visit Cincinnati.
They have spread out section 8 etc. housing throughout the city, even in prime areas.
I stayed there for 2 nights on business this summer. Stayed in a nice hotel, almost in the heart of downtown.
If I walked out the door on one side of the hotel everything is great...nice area..nice restaurants..well dressed people walking around. But literally on the same city block, but on the other side - it is trashed. Noisy/Rude black people congregating everywhere - yelling profanity damn near 24 hours a day.
Cincinatti's crime map is all over the place...very much in small pockets dotted all over the city proper.

That's not unusual.
It's true in Alexandria VA (Old Town Area) - half of it is "high end" the other half is Section 8 and/or "the projects".
 
Are you saying the poor and the aged and disabled that need housing subsidies should live in an area not desirable for more affluent people?

Not at all. I think what's being said here is this is a pervasive trend and growing at an alarming rate. Before we know it, there will be subsidized housing everywhere for everyone, poor or not, if they qualify. Oakland is looking at subsidized housing currently for teachers, for crying out loud. It seems as though people have gotten the false impression they deserve to be set up with living quarters in the style of tv sitcoms, no matter their circumstances. If someone doesn't manage their money well should they qualify for subsidized housing? It's getting ridiculous!
 
This is all part of the failed War on Poverty that hasn't won a single battle over the decades.

One of the questions was abandoning "old folks" in need. It is not my responsibility - it is the responsibility of their children! In return for nourishing them until they reached the age of caring for themselves,

Our youth have lost any respect or sense of responsibility for their elders. And, unlike many society, elders no longer can share their experiences and expertise with the young - without some government agency giving its approval.
 
Are you saying the poor and the aged and disabled that need housing subsidies should live in an area not desirable for more affluent people?

Not at all. I think what's being said here is this is a pervasive trend and growing at an alarming rate. Before we know it, there will be subsidized housing everywhere for everyone, poor or not, if they qualify. Oakland is looking at subsidized housing currently for teachers, for crying out loud. It seems as though people have gotten the false impression they deserve to be set up with living quarters in the style of tv sitcoms, no matter their circumstances. If someone doesn't manage their money well should they qualify for subsidized housing? It's getting ridiculous!

Teachers would not qualify for section 8 in my area unless maybe they had 10 or more kids. I would think teachers in high cost areas would be paid accordingly, so it would depend on more than just income.
 
Are you saying the poor and the aged and disabled that need housing subsidies should live in an area not desirable for more affluent people?

That would be a given. What planet did you say you are from?

Not sure anymore.

Well clearly one that ignores how an economy works.

No I'm quite sure how that works, rich get richer and poor get poorer. I don't want my neighbors trashing my neighborhood either, and I'm not wealthy and neither are my neighbors. We have a nice neat and tidy neighborhood though.
 
Are you saying the poor and the aged and disabled that need housing subsidies should live in an area not desirable for more affluent people?

That would be a given. What planet did you say you are from?

Not sure anymore.

Well clearly one that ignores how an economy works.

No I'm quite sure how that works, rich get richer and poor get poorer. I don't want my neighbors trashing my neighborhood either, and I'm not wealthy and neither are my neighbors. We have a nice neat and tidy neighborhood though.

I am not wealthy either.
And I agree that the rich are getting richer etc...in fact it has never been worse in that respect than now. Since 2009, the top 7% earners in America have lavished in a record 33% increase in their earnings. Yet the remaining 93% of WORKING Americans have suffered a 5% decline with ever diminishing benefits as well. All under a Democrat President whose policies were very instrumental to make that happen. Period.
Now...as for planting low income people in desirable areas..that is ludicrous and very damaging to the economy of that area. Businesses put their locations where they are dependent on the demographics of that location. Imagine if you own a business and you spent several million dollars starting a business, and doing well when suddenly the government decides to build large tracts of subsidized low income housing. You will most likely fail because of it. Is that fair?
 
And another thing...there is an undeniable link to public housing and the crime rates of the areas they are in.
Effectively, the lower the percentage of public housing a neighborhood has - the lower the crime rate and vice versa. This is also inarguable.
People are rarely poor because of a lack of income. They are poor from a lack of opportunity or the unwillingness to benefit from them. Why do I say this? Because it is not up to the government to subsidize the poor...far better to concentrate on increasing opportunities.
 

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