ST's BP Rantings

[Lonestar_logic]

With the risks involved it is criminal to attempt drilling without a responsible back up plan within a reasonable distance to put into effect. This is a clear case of not if but when and where. As important as oil is to our economy and national defense and the results of failing to contain a spill.....and as gung ho as the industry is to drill....who should be required to prepare? This was preventable. How? Not drilling ...ya halfwits. Maybe not with existing safegards ?.....then we should have and now will absolutely have to invent the fool proof system. Maybe retro fit one of those old aircraft carriers..or weld a couple of them together..... Just for emergency ops. Maybe stationed near Key West. Even if it took a week or two to get on site it would be an improvement on three fuckin months.

Couple o carriers should be a big enough platform to cap anything. Even if it cost a billion ...ten billion a year to maintain something ready to go it would be worth the insurance. Christ.... they should be able to haul a big concrete tube out there with sections and sink the thing down a mile or more to contain any spill in any weather... Its just a matter of scale. If its big enough and powerfull enough...nuclear... even a hurricaine could be dealt with.

You really shouldn't comment on something that you know nothing about. Fact is all rigs have fail safe devices such as blowout preventers (BOP), downhole safety valves (DSV) and pressure safty valves (PSV), unfortunately in this case the blowout preventer failed, which could have been due to improper installation.

Another fact is that oil rig blowouts rarely have a major oil release., the last major release was the Sedco 135F in 1979 drilling the IXTOC I well for PEMEX a state-owned Mexican petroleum company. That blowout released over three million barrels.

The last big release was Blake IV and Greenhill Petroleum Corp. Well 250, it was a workover rig that blewout in 1992 in Timbalier Bay, it took 11 days to cap.

There will always be the potential for accidents, and most accidents are cause by human failure not mechanical failure.

OOOPS! I guess we should inform Gunny that its your board now! Go fuck your self cowgirl.

We are just carrying a conversation here sparky. Being almost provably twice as smart as you I'll take my chances catching up to speed on the facts.

I didn't suggest there was nothing available or in place but the bottom line is that whatever was there failed. My suggestion is for an ultimate no fail back up plan. In hindsight it isn't such a dumb idea. How many barrels of spilliage is acceptable? You don't think the difference of 2million gallons then capped vs 100million gallons would be worth having the ultimate back up plan available?
No... that isn't it is it ya little faggot. You just like flapping your gums hard when ta can't find a dick to soften the blows.

Did I mention...Go Fuck Yourself. I'm glad Texas beaches are next... I'm sure your input will be real valuable down there. Fucking dolt!

I've been capping wells for over 25 years, I spent almost two years putting out well fires in Iraq and Kuwait, I believe I am a hell of a lot more knowledgable on this subject than you are. Your suggestion is pure fantasy, there is no device that can be guaranteed to work perfectly everytime, if there was such a device it would already be in use. As for as my input on this matter, when BP calls and ask for advice I will oblige them. Fact is oil rigs are safer than the transport tankers that haul the oil. Most blowouts on rigs don't produce a major release.

With over 800 offshore oil rigs currently in the Gulf having one blowout is not good, but overall the percentages of offshore oil rigs that have major releases are small. Hell even your boy Obama said, "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore."

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I've been capping wells for over 25 years, I spent almost two years putting out well fires in Iraq and Kuwait, I believe I am a hell of a lot more knowledgable on this subject than you are. Your suggestion is pure fantasy, there is no device that can be guaranteed to work perfectly everytime, if there was such a device it would already be in use. As for as my input on this matter, when BP calls and ask for advice I will oblige them. Fact is oil rigs are safer than the transport tankers that haul the oil. Most blowouts on rigs don't produce a major release.

Then maybe you can direct me to a story about the last time an exploding tanker truck destroyed an entire coast line and fishing industry.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If the U.S. had required something called an "acoustic switch" to be installed on the rig, which cost a paltry $500,000 (compared to BP's billions in annual profits and the millions they are spending daily to fix their mess)

Leaking Oil Well Lacked Safeguard Device - WSJ.com

What part of "the efficiency of the device is unclear" do you not understand? To imply this device would have prevented the disaster is disingenuous.

We certainly wouldn't want a safety device that might have worked, because then this tragedy might have been avoided, and that would have been an unacceptable result.

No you wouldn't want to harbor any type of false security, you want a product that works not one that MAY work, but one that DOES work. You have no way of knowing whether a remote control device would have made any difference, that's mere speculation on your part.

BOP's have been largely successful, most blowouts are the result of human error like failing to maintain adequate fluid weight, failing to keep the hole full of fluid or failing to prevent swabbing.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

No you wouldn't want to harbor any type of false security, you want a product that works not one that MAY work, but one that DOES work.

So you're ready to abandon all safety devices then, since clearly in this case they all failed - therefore, clearly, its not 100% certain they will work, and since they only "may" work, there's no need to employ them. After all, like I said, we wouldn't want to risk this accident not happening, there's too much at stake.

Makes great sense. You might wanna stop wearing your seatbelt, they don't always protect your life.


I guess the Apollo 13 astronauts should have been left to die, since some of the methods they were using to get back to Earth alive had never been tried before and weren't guaranteed to work.

In fact - since there is no guarantee any of the attempts to stop the flow of the well will work - BP should cease all efforts to stop it. Like I said, the result - an oil well that is not leaking all over our coastline - could be devastating.

 

[MalibuMan]

Nothing in the world is full proof. Learn from it, clean it up, make improvements and move on. Crap happens.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Nothing in the world is full proof. Learn from it, clean it up, make improvements and move on. Crap happens.

Easy to say when you've got nothing at stake.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I've been capping wells for over 25 years, I spent almost two years putting out well fires in Iraq and Kuwait, I believe I am a hell of a lot more knowledgable on this subject than you are. Your suggestion is pure fantasy, there is no device that can be guaranteed to work perfectly everytime, if there was such a device it would already be in use. As for as my input on this matter, when BP calls and ask for advice I will oblige them. Fact is oil rigs are safer than the transport tankers that haul the oil. Most blowouts on rigs don't produce a major release.

Then maybe you can direct me to a story about the last time an exploding tanker truck destroyed an entire coast line and fishing industry.

1967
March 18, Cornwall, Eng.: Torrey Canyon ran aground, spilling 38 million gallons of crude oil off the Scilly Islands.

1976
Dec. 15, Buzzards Bay, Mass.: Argo Merchant ran aground and broke apart southeast of Nantucket Island, spilling its entire cargo of 7.7 million gallons of fuel oil.

1978
March 16, off Portsall, France: wrecked supertanker Amoco Cadiz spilled 68 million gallons, causing widespread environmental damage over 100 mi of Brittany coast.

1979
June 3, Gulf of Mexico: exploratory oil well Ixtoc 1 blew out, spilling an estimated 140 million gallons of crude oil into the open sea. Although it is one of the largest known oil spills, it had a low environmental impact.

July 19, Tobago: the Atlantic Empress and the Aegean Captain collided, spilling 46 million gallons of crude. While being towed, the Atlantic Empress spilled an additional 41 million gallons off Barbados on Aug. 2.

1983
Aug. 6, Cape Town, South Africa: the Spanish tanker Castillo de Bellver caught fire, spilling 78 million gallons of oil off the coast.

1988
Nov. 10, Saint John's, Newfoundland: Odyssey spilled 43 million gallons of oil.

1989
March 24, Prince William Sound, Alaska: tanker Exxon Valdez hit an undersea reef and spilled 10 million–plus gallons of oil into the water, causing the worst oil spill in U.S. history.

Dec. 19, off Las Palmas, the Canary Islands: explosion in Iranian supertanker, the Kharg-5, caused 19 million gallons of crude oil to spill into Atlantic Ocean about 400 mi north of Las Palmas, forming a 100-square-mile oil slick.

1990
June 8, off Galveston, Tex.: Mega Borg released 5.1 million gallons of oil some 60 nautical miles south-southeast of Galveston as a result of an explosion and subsequent fire in the pump room.

1991
Jan. 23–27, southern Kuwait: during the Persian Gulf War, Iraq deliberately released 240–460 million gallons of crude oil into the Persian Gulf from tankers 10 mi off Kuwait. Spill had little military significance. On Jan. 27, U.S. warplanes bombed pipe systems to stop the flow of oil.

April 11, Genoa, Italy: Haven spilled 42 million gallons of oil in Genoa port.

May 28, Angola: ABT Summer exploded and leaked 15–78 million gallons of oil off the coast of Angola. It's not clear how much sank or burned.

1993
Aug. 10, Tampa Bay, Fla.: three ships collided, the barge Bouchard B155, the freighter Balsa 37, and the barge Ocean 255. The Bouchard spilled an estimated 336,000 gallons of No. 6 fuel oil into Tampa Bay.

1994
Sept. 8, Russia: dam built to contain oil burst and spilled oil into Kolva River tributary. U.S. Energy Department estimated spill at 2 million barrels. Russian state-owned oil company claimed spill was only 102,000 barrels.

1996
Feb. 15, off Welsh coast: supertanker Sea Empress ran aground at port of Milford Haven, Wales, spewed out 70,000 tons of crude oil, and created a 25-mile slick.

1999
Dec. 12, French Atlantic coast: Maltese-registered tanker Erika broke apart and sank off Britanny, spilling 3 million gallons of heavy oil into the sea.

2000
Nov. 28, Mississippi River south of New Orleans: oil tanker Westchester lost power and ran aground near Port Sulphur, La., dumping 567,000 gallons of crude oil into lower Mississippi. Spill was largest in U.S. waters since Exxon Valdez disaster in March 1989.

2002
Nov. 13, Spain: Prestige suffered a damaged hull and was towed to sea and sank. Much of the 20 million gallons of oil remains underwater.

2003
July 28, Pakistan: The Tasman Spirit, a tanker, ran aground near the Karachi port, and eventually cracked into two pieces. One of its four oil tanks burst open, leaking 28,000 tons of crude oil into the sea.

2004
Dec. 7, Unalaska, Aleutian Islands, Alaska: A major storm pushed the M/V Selendang Ayu up onto a rocky shore, breaking it in two. 337,000 gallons of oil were released, most of which was driven onto the shoreline of Makushin and Skan Bays.

2006
August 11th, Guimaras island, The Philippines: A tanker carrying 530,000 gallons of oil sinks off the coast of the Philippines, putting the country's fishing and tourism industries at great risk. The ship sinks in deep water, making it virtually unrecoverable, and it continues to emit oil into the ocean as other nations are called in to assist in the massive clean-up effort.

2008
July 25, New Orleans, Louisiana: A 61-foot barge, carrying 419,000 gallons of heavy fuel, collides with a 600-foot tanker ship in the Mississippi River near New Orleans. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel leak from the barge, causing a halt to all river traffic while cleanup efforts commence to limit the environmental fallout on local wildlife.

2009
March 11, Queensland, Australia: During Cyclone Hamish, unsecured cargo aboard the container ship MV Pacific Adventurer came loose on deck and caused the release of 52,000 gallons of heavy fuel and 620 tons of ammonium nitrate, a fertilizer, into the Coral Sea. About 60 km of the Sunshine Coast was covered in oil, prompting the closure of half the area's beaches.

2010
Jan. 23, Port Arthur, Texas: The oil tanker Eagle Otome and a barge collide in the Sabine-Neches Waterway, causing the release of about 462,000 gallons of crude oil. Environmental damage was minimal as about 46,000 gallons were recovered and 175,000 gallons were dispersed or evaporated, according to the U.S. Coast Guard.
April 24, Gulf of Mexico: The Deepwater Horizon, a semi-submersible drilling rig, sank on

April 22, after an April 20th explosion on the vessel. Eleven people died in the blast. When the rig sank, the riser—the 5,000-foot-long pipe that connects the wellhead to the rig—became detached and began leaking oil. In addition, U.S. Coast Guard investigators discovered a leak in the wellhead itself. As much as 5,000 barrels (200,000 gallons) of oil per day were leaking into the water, threatening wildlife along the Louisiana Coast. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano declared it a "spill of national significance." As many as 1,000 people and dozens of ships and aircraft were enlisted to help in the cleanup. BP (British Petroleum), which leased the Deepwater Horizon, is responsible for the cleanup, but the U.S. Navy supplied the company with resources to help contain the slick. If the slick reaches the coastline, it could dwarf the Exxon Valdez in terms of environmental damage.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

My bad, I thought you were talking about tanker trucks. Didn't get much sleep last night.



Tanker ships at least stop leaking at some point.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No you wouldn't want to harbor any type of false security, you want a product that works not one that MAY work, but one that DOES work.

So you're ready to abandon all safety devices then, since clearly in this case they all failed - therefore, clearly, its not 100% certain they will work, and since they only "may" work, there's no need to employ them. After all, like I said, we wouldn't want to risk this accident not happening, there's too much at stake.

Makes great sense. You might wanna stop wearing your seatbelt, they don't always protect your life.


I guess the Apollo 13 astronauts should have been left to die, since some of the methods they were using to get back to Earth alive had never been tried before and weren't guaranteed to work.

In fact - since there is no guarantee any of the attempts to stop the flow of the well will work - BP should cease all efforts to stop it. Like I said, the result - an oil well that is not leaking all over our coastline - could be devastating.

No not abandon any, but thinking just because fail safes are in place that everything is safe is naive and stupid. There is no device that can guarantee total safety! It's a dangerous business and accidents can and do occur. Your little strawman argument is lame and weak.

Fact is safety devices were in play, they failed, why did they fail? I'd suspect human error was the cause. You can put saftey valves in any system, but if you do not follow the guidelines and know what the limits are for the valves you are destined to cause a system failure.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

My bad, I thought you were talking about tanker trucks. Didn't get much sleep last night.



Tanker ships at least stop leaking at some point.

Yes they (tankers)do stop leaking at some point and this well will be capped and I don't think the environment will be impacted as much as you seem to think it will.

 

[HUGGY]

You really shouldn't comment on something that you know nothing about. Fact is all rigs have fail safe devices such as blowout preventers (BOP), downhole safety valves (DSV) and pressure safty valves (PSV), unfortunately in this case the blowout preventer failed, which could have been due to improper installation.

Another fact is that oil rig blowouts rarely have a major oil release., the last major release was the Sedco 135F in 1979 drilling the IXTOC I well for PEMEX a state-owned Mexican petroleum company. That blowout released over three million barrels.

The last big release was Blake IV and Greenhill Petroleum Corp. Well 250, it was a workover rig that blewout in 1992 in Timbalier Bay, it took 11 days to cap.

There will always be the potential for accidents, and most accidents are cause by human failure not mechanical failure.

OOOPS! I guess we should inform Gunny that its your board now! Go fuck your self cowgirl.

We are just carrying a conversation here sparky. Being almost provably twice as smart as you I'll take my chances catching up to speed on the facts.

I didn't suggest there was nothing available or in place but the bottom line is that whatever was there failed. My suggestion is for an ultimate no fail back up plan. In hindsight it isn't such a dumb idea. How many barrels of spilliage is acceptable? You don't think the difference of 2million gallons then capped vs 100million gallons would be worth having the ultimate back up plan available?
No... that isn't it is it ya little faggot. You just like flapping your gums hard when ta can't find a dick to soften the blows.

Did I mention...Go Fuck Yourself. I'm glad Texas beaches are next... I'm sure your input will be real valuable down there. Fucking dolt!

I've been capping wells for over 25 years, I spent almost two years putting out well fires in Iraq and Kuwait, I believe I am a hell of a lot more knowledgable on this subject than you are. Your suggestion is pure fantasy, there is no device that can be guaranteed to work perfectly everytime, if there was such a device it would already be in use. As for as my input on this matter, when BP calls and ask for advice I will oblige them. Fact is oil rigs are safer than the transport tankers that haul the oil. Most blowouts on rigs don't produce a major release.

With over 800 offshore oil rigs currently in the Gulf having one blowout is not good, but overall the percentages of offshore oil rigs that have major releases are small. Hell even your boy Obama said, "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore."

Todays fantasy is tommorows invention. Thats what I do. There is no ACCEPTABLE percentage of spills at this magnatude. If you cannot agree to that premise then your input is indeed worthless ...your 25 years not withstanding.Rather than poo poo someones attemp at brain storming the problem why not jump in with ideas ...but no you just want to be a stupid little prick.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI]YouTube - Animal House: Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor[/ame]

 

[SpidermanTuba]

No not abandon any, but thinking just because fail safes are in place that everything is safe is naive and stupid.

That's not what I think. I think that in the greatest nation on Earth we should have all the safety devices available installed on our rigs.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Yes they (tankers)do stop leaking at some point and this well will be capped and I don't think the environment will be impacted as much as you seem to think it will.[/QUOTE]

I surely hope so.

 

[HUGGY]

Yes they (tankers)do stop leaking at some point and this well will be capped and I don't think the environment will be impacted as much as you seem to think it will.[/QUOTE]

I surely hope so.

The sad thing is that a guy with 25 years experience should be jumping in with both feet trying to do something. Down playing this with "acceptability" is beyond the pale. Fuck!!! If I had his experience ..I would already have ten experts on the horn and a call in to Obama with several suggestions. Cowgirl just isn't a team player. Didn't he see Armagedon? When Those old guys all got together and saved the planet? What the fuck happened to these fucking sheep that they lost thier love of country?

 

[bodecea]

Actually an example of why lawyers are needed when dealing with corporations.

And an example of why corporate attorneys are scum. I have a feeling that if BP had run this by their public relations department first, it wouldn't have happened.

I bet they ran it by their Insurance Dept.....sounds like what they'd do.

 

[Care4all]

i have been out of the country on vacation....

Does anyone know what really happened? what made the well blow? Do they know the cause?

 

[CurveLight]

What scum this limeys are. I guess they never got over the waxing they got at the Battle of New Orleans.

Alabama Attorney General Troy King said tonight that he has told representatives of BP Plc. that they should stop circulating settlement agreements among coastal Alabamians.

The agreements, King said, essentially require that people give up the right to sue in exchange for payment of up to $5,000.

BP told to stop circulating settlement agreements with coastal Alabamians | al.com

They tore a page out of the Bush Admin's playbook. What's the problem?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

OOOPS! I guess we should inform Gunny that its your board now! Go fuck your self cowgirl.

We are just carrying a conversation here sparky. Being almost provably twice as smart as you I'll take my chances catching up to speed on the facts.

I didn't suggest there was nothing available or in place but the bottom line is that whatever was there failed. My suggestion is for an ultimate no fail back up plan. In hindsight it isn't such a dumb idea. How many barrels of spilliage is acceptable? You don't think the difference of 2million gallons then capped vs 100million gallons would be worth having the ultimate back up plan available?
No... that isn't it is it ya little faggot. You just like flapping your gums hard when ta can't find a dick to soften the blows.

Did I mention...Go Fuck Yourself. I'm glad Texas beaches are next... I'm sure your input will be real valuable down there. Fucking dolt!

I've been capping wells for over 25 years, I spent almost two years putting out well fires in Iraq and Kuwait, I believe I am a hell of a lot more knowledgable on this subject than you are. Your suggestion is pure fantasy, there is no device that can be guaranteed to work perfectly everytime, if there was such a device it would already be in use. As for as my input on this matter, when BP calls and ask for advice I will oblige them. Fact is oil rigs are safer than the transport tankers that haul the oil. Most blowouts on rigs don't produce a major release.

With over 800 offshore oil rigs currently in the Gulf having one blowout is not good, but overall the percentages of offshore oil rigs that have major releases are small. Hell even your boy Obama said, "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore."

Todays fantasy is tommorows invention. Thats what I do. There is no ACCEPTABLE percentage of spills at this magnatude. If you cannot agree to that premise then your input is indeed worthless ...your 25 years not withstanding.Rather than poo poo someones attemp at brain storming the problem why not jump in with ideas ...but no you just want to be a stupid little prick.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI]YouTube - Animal House: Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor[/ame]

Just your suggestion "for an ultimate no fail back up plan", does nothing to brainstorm the problem. You need to detail your so-called "no fail back up plan". What type of device is it? Has it been approved by the American Society for Testing and Materials?

You remind of those people against the new Arizona law. When asked what they would do they say we need a "comprehensive immigration reform" which means absolutely nothing.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

i have been out of the country on vacation....

Does anyone know what really happened? what made the well blow? Do they know the cause?

From what I've heard the blowout preventer (BOP) failed. I haven't heard what caused it to fail. It could been a number of things.

 

[CurveLight]

Actually, it goes to show what idiots there are on some message boards.

Great point. You remind us every time you post. Your response will prove it.