Splitting The Republican Party

[Adam's Apple]

And why not term limits for all political office? Say you get 4 to 8 years... Let it be a service to ones country and not a career.

Great idea. I'll second that recommendation. Now if we could only get a mllion people or so to bombard their reps in Washington with the idea...

 

[Adam's Apple]

Fear of the alternative??

In my case, Bonnie, it's not fear of the alternative, but rather knowing what that alternative is and saying "No thanks." We no longer have a reasonable alternative available to us, so we'll just have to stick with the Republicans and try to reform their "Washington" thinking. Big tough job, I'll readily admit.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Here are our options without significant change and awareness in our society.

1. Be enslaved by businesses taking over government.

2. Be enslaved by government taking over business.

 

[dilloduck]

Here are our options without significant change and awareness in our society.

1. Be enslaved by businesses taking over government.

2. Be enslaved by government taking over business.

Hasn't that pretty much already happened? I sorta feel like I've been ganged up on by both.

 

[jasendorf]

I think the extremists running the Republican Party have finally caused it to collapse. When they put guys like Ken Blackwell up for governor of Ohio, you know that they've finally gone over the edge. What kind of ramifications these types of nominees are going to do to the GOP's image will be borne out over the next couple years but I think we're going to see a huge swing to the left coming very soon.

 

[5stringJeff]

I think the extremists running the Republican Party have finally caused it to collapse. When they put guys like Ken Blackwell up for governor of Ohio, you know that they've finally gone over the edge. What kind of ramifications these types of nominees are going to do to the GOP's image will be borne out over the next couple years but I think we're going to see a huge swing to the left coming very soon.

If by "extremists," you mean extremely liberal Republicans, then you might be right. The moderates are watering down the GOP's message.

 

[jasendorf]

If by "extremists," you mean extremely liberal Republicans, then you might be right. The moderates are watering down the GOP's message.

Extremism always backfires on political parties. Always has, always will. Moderates, while sometimes annoying in their inability to pick a single position, are what usually move the country forward with the least amount of social and political upheaval.

Most states simply aren't ready for an extreme social conservative agenda, particularly states like Ohio... and, I have yet to see any real fiscal conservatism from anyone in the two main parties... so, we'll see how Ken Blackwell does and take it from there.

 

[5stringJeff]

Extremism always backfires on political parties. Always has, always will. Moderates, while sometimes annoying in their inability to pick a single position, are what usually move the country forward with the least amount of social and political upheaval.

Most states simply aren't ready for an extreme social conservative agenda, particularly states like Ohio... and, I have yet to see any real fiscal conservatism from anyone in the two main parties... so, we'll see how Ken Blackwell does and take it from there.

Moderates in the GOP, plus spineless leadership, is what has caused the current GOP love affair with big government. If you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything.

 

[jasendorf]

Moderates in the GOP, plus spineless leadership, is what has caused the current GOP love affair with big government. If you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything.

Agreed. But, without those moderates there would be no ability to promote ANY part of a conservative agenda because they are what give the Republicans a "majority."

I think the worst part of the current extremist conservative agenda is the "starve the beast" mentality which is actually a "saddle our children with unbearable debt" reality. If you're not going to pay for tax cuts as you make them, I can't agree with them. I'm all for tax cuts as long as the loss of governmental services affects ME, now. Not my children 20 years from now.

 

[5stringJeff]

Agreed. But, without those moderates there would be no ability to promote ANY part of a conservative agenda because they are what give the Republicans a "majority."

I disagree. I think that the majority of Americans agree with much, if not all, of the conservative agenda.

I think the worst part of the current extremist conservative agenda is the "starve the beast" mentality which is actually a "saddle our children with unbearable debt" reality. If you're not going to pay for tax cuts as you make them, I can't agree with them. I'm all for tax cuts as long as the loss of governmental services affects ME, now. Not my children 20 years from now.

Actually, there are a handful of conservatives in the House and Senate who are trying to do just what you say. Their opposition is the current majority of the GOP, which is either a) moderate, or b) spineless "leadership" that won't stand up for the conservative values they say they espouse.

 

[jasendorf]

I disagree. I think that the majority of Americans agree with much, if not all, of the conservative agenda.

Actually, there are a handful of conservatives in the House and Senate who are trying to do just what you say. Their opposition is the current majority of the GOP, which is either a) moderate, or b) spineless "leadership" that won't stand up for the conservative values they say they espouse.

I think there are too many shades of gray for you to say that the majority of Americans agree with the extremist conservative agenda. While I might say they agree with many of the basic principles, they disagree with the extremity at which they would be imposed by the far-right if the far-right had its way. For instance, a majority of Americans agree to limits on abortion, but a majority also agrees on exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother. That doesn't make the majority wishy-washy on abortion... that makes it majority.

And, a handful is useless if they're so extreme that they can't get more than a handful. (I hope that makes some sense) Perhaps you could show me this "handful of conservatives in the House and Senate who are trying to do just what say"... I'll check their voting record and see if they voted against the tax cuts on the principle that there was no corresponding spending cuts. Why do I think they aren't voting in a manner consistent with your assertion?

 

[5stringJeff]

I think there are too many shades of gray for you to say that the majority of Americans agree with the extremist conservative agenda. While I might say they agree with many of the basic principles, they disagree with the extremity at which they would be imposed by the far-right if the far-right had its way. For instance, a majority of Americans agree to limits on abortion, but a majority also agrees on exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother. That doesn't make the majority wishy-washy on abortion... that makes it majority.

And, a handful is useless if they're so extreme that they can't get more than a handful. (I hope that makes some sense) Perhaps you could show me this "handful of conservatives in the House and Senate who are trying to do just what say"... I'll check their voting record and see if they voted against the tax cuts on the principle that there was no corresponding spending cuts. Why do I think they aren't voting in a manner consistent with your assertion?

Start here:
http://www.house.gov/pence/rsc/

 

[jasendorf]

Unless you want to point to something specific, all I see there is a bunch of Republicans pandering to lower taxes and doing nothing about spending. What they're doing is a shell game combined with a Ponzi scheme.

 

[musicman]

Testing.

 

[musicman]

I think there are too many shades of gray for you to say that the majority of Americans agree with the extremist conservative agenda.

And I think your use of the term "extremist" is entirely subjective - for instance:

While I might say they agree with many of the basic principles, they disagree with the extremity at which they would be imposed by the far-right if the far-right had its way.

All right - what, exactly, does THAT mean? Please give some examples of what "would be imposed by the far right if the far right had its way".

For instance, a majority of Americans agree to limits on abortion, but a majority also agrees on exceptions for rape, incest and health of the mother.

You're missing the point. Brush aside the extraneous arguments for a moment. The heart of the abortion debate comes down to one simple question: whose call is it?

It is the conservative view that abortion policy is a matter for the people, through their duly elected representatives; that a national policy on abortion - enforced by the federal judiciary - is a clear violation of both letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution. There is ample evidence in the Constitution to support this view; therefore, if it is "extreme", then our founding fathers were likewise "extreme".

 

[Bullypulpit]

Extremism always backfires on political parties. Always has, always will. Moderates, while sometimes annoying in their inability to pick a single position, are what usually move the country forward with the least amount of social and political upheaval.

Most states simply aren't ready for an extreme social conservative agenda, particularly states like Ohio... and, I have yet to see any real fiscal conservatism from anyone in the two main parties... so, we'll see how Ken Blackwell does and take it from there.

Ken Blackwell is a political opportunist who will use whatever tools are available to him, be it abortion, gay marriage, or any other issue that will rally the right wing-nut base.
He is, also, Ohio's Secretary of State and is responsible for the enforcement, or lack thereof, of election laws. His running for Governor as Secretary of State seems to present a grave conflict of interest.

 

[dilloduck]

Ken Blackwell is a political opportunist who will use whatever tools are available to him, be it abortion, gay marriage, or any other issue that will rally the right wing-nut base.
He is, also, Ohio's Secretary of State and is responsible for the enforcement, or lack thereof, of election laws. His running for Governor as Secretary of State seems to present a grave conflict of interest.

Notify your State Attorney General.

 

[5stringJeff]

Ken Blackwell is a political opportunist who will use whatever tools are available to him, be it abortion, gay marriage, or any other issue that will rally the right wing-nut base.
He is, also, Ohio's Secretary of State and is responsible for the enforcement, or lack thereof, of election laws. His running for Governor as Secretary of State seems to present a grave conflict of interest.

They would seem to, but Secretaries of State can't rig elections.

 

[Bullypulpit]

They would seem to, but Secretaries of State can't rig elections.

He can if Wally O'Dell, Diebold Chairman and CEO, is a close friend and major campaign contributor.

 

[jasendorf]

All right - what, exactly, does THAT mean? Please give some examples of what "would be imposed by the far right if the far right had its way".

"It's way" = A federal law similar to South Dakota's new law which forces a woman to have a child (or drive herself to a neighboring state) fathered during a rape or incest. Obviously NOT what the majority believes. some numbers

You're missing the point. Brush aside the extraneous arguments for a moment. The heart of the abortion debate comes down to one simple question: whose call is it?

It is the conservative view that abortion policy is a matter for the people, through their duly elected representatives; that a national policy on abortion - enforced by the federal judiciary - is a clear violation of both letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution. There is ample evidence in the Constitution to support this view; therefore, if it is "extreme", then our founding fathers were likewise "extreme".

This is the current view of convenience towards ending abortion of conservatives. If conservatives truly believed this they wouldn't be pushing for an Amendment to create federal laws banning same-sex marriage or Amendments to allow Congress to limit flag desecration.