Some People Are Out There Trying

[IM2]

First, the white man unloads his frustrations and his views on Black Lives Matter, the NFL anthem protests. There are even potshots taken against 2Pac and Eminem.
Then the black man reacts. He takes on white privilege, cultural appropriation, and attacks against former President Barack Obama.
Throughout the song, both men insist "I'm not racist."

And to you these things are the same. But they aren't.

Of course they're not the same IM2
That's the whole problem with "racism" is people projecting
judgment on each other because of their own experiences
and perceptions that are relative and can't be judged by comparing any one to any one else.

What I got out of this video was both men were projecting
and expression their feelings and experiences about injustice
and feeling JUDGED well knowing the "other side" has no clue what it feels like from their viewpoint

So both feel separated, alienated and misjudged by the other.

They may never get what it feels like to walk in each other's shoes
But hearing the mutual grief and frustration,
clearly there's commonality in the struggle the problem of not being able to connect
and understand unless you've been living the other person's life. Nobody can
know what that feels like, only our own path an dperspective.

So in our aloneness and alienation, we find we aren't alone.
The other person and other side is stuck in frustration also
and feels nobody understands.

IM2 of course the pain and struggle that Whites and Blacks go through
is not the same.

The problem is trying to compare and justify judgments.
When we try to compare and compete, that's the recipe for
human misery. We all have to learn to make the most of
what we have and our potential. .Sure it's better if we can
support each other instead of tear each other down.
But in the meantime, all each of us can do is make sure
WE are not the ones tearing others down. We can't help
if other people aren't ready to lift each other up.
We can just make sure we are ready for that change
and try to lift others up not tear others down.

We start with ourselves, with the people around us
we relate to. And do our best to support and promote
positive change. The other relations and groups that
are more negative or resistant, will come later in time.

All people go through that process, regardless of
background, class or culture. We all learn to pick our
battles, prioritize changes, forgive what we can and
work on what bothers disturbs or stresses us.

We all go through grief and recovery.
The rest of what we experience that fills that framework
is unique to us as individuals and people of different
cultures, races, religions, political leanings, classes, etc.

The process is universal, and these men in the video
are equally expressing their frustrations regardless
how different they are. In expressing and releasing
what we feel experience think and believe, without
feeling stifled silenced or judged, that allows
for healing. So we learn to let go and accept
what has gone on and gone wrong.

What we can do from now on is not ADD
to that grief, but resolve not to repeat hold
on to or project that grief forward.

So forgiveness and letting go ARE the key
to WORKING on change with clear minds
and hearts so we operate and relate more effecively.

We may never understand or do justice to what others
experience. We can share in the common process
of resolving and healing, so we can work together
in the future in ways that don't repeat this same painful
process, but accelerate the healing and the learning curve.

Thanks for posting your honest take on
this which is essential to further the process,
which is bigger than any one of us and
we all contribute to it so it is complete and whole.

Emily you have your opinion, but racism is not something that you put in quotes. It's real. And you know it.

What you must do is stop lecturing me about what not to do and begin telling these whites around here about ending their racism because that is what adds to the grief.

 

[emilynghiem]

A young artist from MA has made a video for a song that is getting a strong response from people of all sorts. Some people from all sides who live on this forum for no other reason than to fling shit and refuse to think might want to give it a look.


Joyner Lucas' 'I'm Not Racist' is the brutal conversation on race nobody wants to have - CNN

Then you go have that conversation because you have a supreme problem understanding things

Because you don't want to have that brutal conversation. You want a conversation hat is nice and light that doesn't offend whites where non whites can't be angry, can't so how emotion or can't speak the truth..

To the contrary.. That depiction of a "conversation" is unnecessarily brutal. And offensive to me from BOTH the participants. It's all about GROUP conflict. EVERYTHING tossed out is just generalizations. Not a genuine conversation. It's just a angry litany of stereotypes. Equal anger -- nothing gets resolved. OR FIXED.

Those aren't the 2 people to have a meeting of the minds on race..

Give up your individualism lie please. It's offensive that you ignore the complete history of this nation to try talking about some fake idea that has never existed here.

Individualism has NEVER EXISTED IN AMERICA?? Whites aren't a group. They are fractured by religion, politics, region, "gender". ethnicity, class, and every other way. NO ONE "speaks" for whites. There is no WHITE IDENTITY --- except amongst our racists. You cannot equate individualism in ANY WAY to "ignoring the complete history of this nation"..

In contrast, it seems that CONFRONTATIONAL encounters --- like the Video we're discussing are USELESS -- because they are based on stereotypes and bias that come from GROUP identities. When the black guy in the Video declares himself a "drug dealer" because "he HAS TO DO THAT to survive" ---- Only racists applaud that. I would think that ANY RESPONSIBLE Black spokesperson would come out and completely UNLOAD on that type of Group stereotyping.

So why was I OFFENDED by that racial stereotype -- and you apparently are not? This is question. Would like an answer. Or it's AGAIN --- not a discussion..

Whites are a group just like everyone else. Stop lying. Whites have multiple people speaking for t hem. Blacks have the same fractures and there is not one black who has ever spoken for all black people. Even Martin Luther King was not the only back speaking for blacks during the 60's. Whites crowned him and whites continue trying to crown the one black for us even today. Whites are a group. Whites practice group dynamics. Whites think as a group, and that's the way it is.

I don't get offended by imaginary things.

Very interesting IM2
I can see some of the impact that individualism and collectivism have here
in your description of what is going on in society and cultures.

I always thought it was "agreement in Christ on scriptures and in prayer" that created
the emphasis on Christianity (that is framed as White/Western culture but is actually broader in scope
and coverage), and the consensus on Constitutional laws that carries central authority in the realm
of secular laws. That also gets framed as White/European but the natural laws the Constitution is based on come from Nature or God that is universal to all people, all tribes and nations not just the White founders of American govt and states.

As for what drives our media and popular culture to frame both church and state
as White man's laws and religions, I think the dominate English language tends
to correlate with this "linear" or "Eurocentric" way of framing history and human development.

Again this is very intriguing IM2
is it the individualism that drives and defines White/European culture,
or is the White/European culture that imposes individualism?

What is it about the human ego that drives us to impose our thinking and bias everything we look at.
And how do our cultures reflect that, and what causes
one cultural perspective to dominate over others.

???

Thank you IM2
You help me understand more the people I know who
define racism in terms of White power privilege and class
dominating and discriminating against the others, where
because it is innately unequal then racism and power struggles
are defined based on the White class as the default. And it's not equal.

I thought spiritually the power was coming from that
and it was merely EXPRESSED through linear English
and laws and culture, which made it framed in terms of Eurocentric culture.

But I think you are saying no, it IS dominated
and defined by that culture as a group.

I just see that as the language it is established through.
But I believe the content of God's truth is universal
and shared by all people and more credit is NOT due to
the White groups just because that culture/language is dominant.

I don't have any issue using the framework we have which
may be predominantly credited to White culture and language,
in order to assimilate all the history information and input from
ALL cultures and classes in an orderly fashion to amass it all.

I believe that's why it is used as the default framework.
It's not to dominate but to help organize people in groups.
So this "white man"'s way of labeling people and cultures
by groups allows us to organize and learn and share.

If the language of the church and state had been
given in Chinese or Martian, then we'd all be speaking that language
to form a consensus and umbrella for all other tribes and nations
to unify around. We use English which is a linear language
so we can organize and disseminate ideas and input
and put our best representations together democratically
by groups in a network. So our whole way of communicating
and relating is going to be biased toward Eurocentric and Eurolinear
ways of thinking.

I guess the difference between me and others who think like
you do, I don't see the "white dominance" as cultural oppression
or inequality per se, but that is the RESULT or consequence
of not being fully developed yet as a global society and all
humanity collectively. in the process of developing to reach
maturity, I believe we ARE supposed to use this centralizing
system, but use it PROPERLY not abuse it as currently happening
due to economic and social inequalities and disparity between classes
and groups of people. So instead of BLAMING the white system
for the continuing disparity, the language of the laws and culture
is supposed to be USED as tool to overcome the problems
and get to the stage where there IS equal justice under laws
as our democratic principles proclaim.

I dont see these systems as bad per se, but good tools
to use to identify, understand and resolve the causes of wrongs and problems.

 

[IM2]

Then you go have that conversation because you have a supreme problem understanding things

Because you don't want to have that brutal conversation. You want a conversation hat is nice and light that doesn't offend whites where non whites can't be angry, can't so how emotion or can't speak the truth..

To the contrary.. That depiction of a "conversation" is unnecessarily brutal. And offensive to me from BOTH the participants. It's all about GROUP conflict. EVERYTHING tossed out is just generalizations. Not a genuine conversation. It's just a angry litany of stereotypes. Equal anger -- nothing gets resolved. OR FIXED.

Those aren't the 2 people to have a meeting of the minds on race..

Give up your individualism lie please. It's offensive that you ignore the complete history of this nation to try talking about some fake idea that has never existed here.

Individualism has NEVER EXISTED IN AMERICA?? Whites aren't a group. They are fractured by religion, politics, region, "gender". ethnicity, class, and every other way. NO ONE "speaks" for whites. There is no WHITE IDENTITY --- except amongst our racists. You cannot equate individualism in ANY WAY to "ignoring the complete history of this nation"..

In contrast, it seems that CONFRONTATIONAL encounters --- like the Video we're discussing are USELESS -- because they are based on stereotypes and bias that come from GROUP identities. When the black guy in the Video declares himself a "drug dealer" because "he HAS TO DO THAT to survive" ---- Only racists applaud that. I would think that ANY RESPONSIBLE Black spokesperson would come out and completely UNLOAD on that type of Group stereotyping.

So why was I OFFENDED by that racial stereotype -- and you apparently are not? This is question. Would like an answer. Or it's AGAIN --- not a discussion..

Whites are a group just like everyone else. Stop lying. Whites have multiple people speaking for t hem. Blacks have the same fractures and there is not one black who has ever spoken for all black people. Even Martin Luther King was not the only back speaking for blacks during the 60's. Whites crowned him and whites continue trying to crown the one black for us even today. Whites are a group. Whites practice group dynamics. Whites think as a group, and that's the way it is.

I don't get offended by imaginary things.

Very interesting IM2
I can see some of the impact that individualism and collectivism have here
in your description of what is going on in society and cultures.

I always thought it was "agreement in Christ on scriptures and in prayer" that created
the emphasis on Christianity (that is framed as White/Western culture but is actually broader in scope
and coverage), and the consensus on Constitutional laws that carries central authority in the realm
of secular laws. That also gets framed as White/European but the natural laws the Constitution is based on come from Nature or God that is universal to all people, all tribes and nations not just the White founders of American govt and states.

As for what drives our media and popular culture to frame both church and state
as White man's laws and religions, I think the dominate English language tends
to correlate with this "linear" or "Eurocentric" way of framing history and human development.

Again this is very intriguing IM2
is it the individualism that drives and defines White/European culture,
or is the White/European culture that imposes individualism?

What is it about the human ego that drives us to impose our thinking and bias everything we look at.
And how do our cultures reflect that, and what causes
one cultural perspective to dominate over others.

???

Thank you IM2
You help me understand more the people I know who
define racism in terms of White power privilege and class
dominating and discriminating against the others, where
because it is innately unequal then racism and power struggles
are defined based on the White class as the default. And it's not equal.

I thought spiritually the power was coming from that
and it was merely EXPRESSED through linear English
and laws and culture, which made it framed in terms of Eurocentric culture.

But I think you are saying no, it IS dominated
and defined by that culture as a group.

I just see that as the language it is established through.
But I believe the content of God's truth is universal
and shared by all people and more credit is NOT due to
the White groups just because that culture/language is dominant.

I don't have any issue using the framework we have which
may be predominantly credited to White culture and language,
in order to assimilate all the history information and input from
ALL cultures and classes in an orderly fashion to amass it all.

I believe that's why it is used as the default framework.
It's not to dominate but to help organize people in groups.
So this "white man"'s way of labeling people and cultures
by groups allows us to organize and learn and share.

If the language of the church and state had been
given in Chinese or Martian, then we'd all be speaking that language
to form a consensus and umbrella for all other tribes and nations
to unify around. We use English which is a linear language
so we can organize and disseminate ideas and input
and put our best representations together democratically
by groups in a network. So our whole way of communicating
and relating is going to be biased toward Eurocentric and Eurolinear
ways of thinking.

I guess the difference between me and others who think like
you do, I don't see the "white dominance" as cultural oppression
or inequality per se, but that is the RESULT or consequence
of not being fully developed yet as a global society and all
humanity collectively. in the process of developing to reach
maturity, I believe we ARE supposed to use this centralizing
system, but use it PROPERLY not abuse it as currently happening
due to economic and social inequalities and disparity between classes
and groups of people. So instead of BLAMING the white system
for the continuing disparity, the language of the laws and culture
is supposed to be USED as tool to overcome the problems
and get to the stage where there IS equal justice under laws
as our democratic principles proclaim.

I dont see these systems as bad per se, but good tools
to use to identify, understand and resolve the causes of wrongs and problems.

And that's your major problem. White dominance includes creating laws and policy stopping others from opportunity. You are too busy trying to deny and rationalize wrong. The universal nature of God tells us to end wrong not rationalize or look for the good in it. And by doing that, and only that, do we get to the place you say you want to go.