Some Oregon schools adopting Mexican curriculum

[Cynic-American]

I DO think it is American laziness that wants us to preserve English as the language of business.

All of them speak English now all of them are doing beautifully in school. So, ultimately, it didn't matter much.

ooooook, do you oppose English or not?

 

[jasendorf]

oh.. so you'd quicker learn ENGLISH if living in a spanish speaking community that didnt think it so important to speak it so that you would have a grasp of it?

I tellya, nothing says LEARNING like not actually having stimuli making it necessary to learn it.

Indeed, Im sure all that Mexican material is reflective of America instead of Mexico too! Juans doneky walked to the cinco de mayo fiesta probably reflects a good ole Wyoming setting.

Why would anyone want a "Wyoming-based" education?

Jim Bob lost 2,000 more acres of his farm to Monsanto this week in a state economy which provides less that 0.3% of the nation's GDP... how long will it take him and his family to drag us even further into poverty with farming subsidies?

 

[Shogun]

wyoming is part of the American culture.


Juan's burro at la ciesta is not.


and, dude... dont make me get all willie nelson on your ass if you astart talking shit on farmers.

 

[jasendorf]

wyoming is part of the American culture.

Juan's burro at la ciesta is not.

and, dude... dont make me get all willie nelson on your ass if you astart talking shit on farmers.

El burro de Juan en un partido es más importante que cualquier cosa en Wyoming.

I'm just making a point that there are probably more Spanish speakers in the United States than Wyomans. So, which is "more American"? Is "more American" a historic ideal or a demographic/statistical ideal? If it's a historic ideal... shouldn't we all be speaking Navaho or something?"

 

[Shogun]

it's, hands down, more American to be from Wyoming than Mexico. how silly is it to say that the sparce population of wyoming is less American than a larger number of non-snglish speaking latinos who, speaking of per capita, probably don't want to whip out their legal resident alien cards?


say it with me:

JUANS BURRIO

vs.

JONS DONKEY


see any cultural differences?

 

[doniston]

it's, hands down, more American to be from Wyoming than Mexico.
QUOTE] Flat wrong. Mexicans ARE Americans---- so are Canadians ---they just don't happen to be citizens of the US

 

[doniston]

Your ignoring the fact we are NOT requiring English be learned at all. Schools are teaching students completely in Spanish.

Where in the United Staes is this happening? except perhaps in a private school?

 

[jasendorf]

it's, hands down, more American to be from Wyoming than Mexico. how silly is it to say that the sparce population of wyoming is less American than a larger number of non-snglish speaking latinos who, speaking of per capita, probably don't want to whip out their legal resident alien cards?

This of course is your opinion (which I think you're more than entitled to) but to say that some Americans are more "American" than others is really rather silly. If we want to look at this from a strictly statistical, analytical, demographic-based perspective... Spanish-first Latinos far outnumber Wyomans. Hell, I'd even make a bet that there are more Spanish-first Americans serving in Iraq at this moment than Wyomans...

 

[jasendorf]

Where in the United Staes is this happening? except perhaps in a private school?

No where... he made it up and then jumped ship when I called him on it.

 

[Cynic-American]

No where... he made it up and then jumped ship when I called him on it.

Shogun has a habit of not backing up his claims.

As for people being American simply for being in the country...that is like me building a tower with toothpicks and claiming I am in the construction business.

 

[Shogun]

it's, hands down, more American to be from Wyoming than Mexico.
QUOTE] Flat wrong. Mexicans ARE Americans---- so are Canadians ---they just don't happen to be citizens of the US

dude.. you just jumped the shark.


I havent been talking about people from Brazil when I say AMERICANS. I figured you were following along when the topic revolves around mexican resources teaching in spanish in THE UNITED STATES.

are we clear now?


and, yes, it is, hands down, more reflective of the UNITED STATES to be from Wyoming, despite it's population as a state, than Mexico or a latino who never bothered to learn the language of the locals.

 

[Shogun]

This of course is your opinion (which I think you're more than entitled to) but to say that some Americans are more "American" than others is really rather silly. If we want to look at this from a strictly statistical, analytical, demographic-based perspective... Spanish-first Latinos far outnumber Wyomans. Hell, I'd even make a bet that there are more Spanish-first Americans serving in Iraq at this moment than Wyomans...

yes, PLEASE let's look at this statistically..


The potential for such problems has increased over the past several decades as the U.S. population has grown more diverse. From 1980 to 2002, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the proportion of minorities among the civilian, noninstitutionalized population grew from 6.4% to 13.3% among Hispanics, 11.7% to 13.0% among blacks, and 1.5% to 4.4% among Asians (27-30). Additionally, as of 2002, 11.7% of U.S. residents were reported to have been born in a foreign country, with 53.3% of those saying they had been born in Latin America, 25.0% in Asia, 13.7% in Europe, and 8.0% in some other region of the world (31). Moreover, the various racial and ethnic groups are not distributed equally across the United States (Figures 1–3). As a result, the potential impact of race and ethnicity on survey participation rates varies considerably among and within regions.

Figure 4. Percentage of linguistically isolated Spanish-language households, United States. Source: U.S. Census 2000 (32).

Need I remind you that a population of non-english speaking ILLEGALS will always be < than the sparce population of the state of wyoming? Did you miss how a good portion of those you lump together as merely "spanish speaking" probably don't have valid rights to be here in the first place? Sorry, that sample just isn't as American as the few AMERICANS in Wyoming.



but hey... what does the CDC know about the danger of isolation caused by refusing to learn the language? CERTAINLY nothing as long as the latino non-english population, on the surface, is more than the population of wyoming!

 

[Shogun]

This of course is your opinion (which I think you're more than entitled to) but to say that some Americans are more "American" than others is really rather silly. If we want to look at this from a strictly statistical, analytical, demographic-based perspective... Spanish-first Latinos far outnumber Wyomans. Hell, I'd even make a bet that there are more Spanish-first Americans serving in Iraq at this moment than Wyomans...

hey, we seem to be moving in a very Heinlein direction when it comes to selling citizenship for service... that's a whole other thread.

Pretending that wyomin is less American than non english speaking latinos, a sample you cant even filter illegals from, is just absurd.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun has a habit of not backing up his claims.

As for people being American simply for being in the country...that is like me building a tower with toothpicks and claiming I am in the construction business.

arent you the same guy who claimed to be native and then freaked out when I asked you from what tribe?

Indeed, go ask those AMERICANS from Wyoming if they are more AMERICAN than non-english speaking latinos.. just make sure you let ICE come through and filter out the illegals first. Since data matters more than your tantrum it would be nice to have a source beyond your red pulsating vein in the forehead face.

 

[Cynic-American]

did Shonoguts provide proof yet?
Or is that expecting a miracle?

 

[Shogun]

didnt you block me by now?

I tellya, the ONE THING that is even more pussyish on an internet message board than threatening physical violence is stomping your foot on the ground and threatening to block someone and then NOT DOING IT.

hehehehehe...

you are good for a couple more laughs, it seems.


hey, since YOU asked for it lemme go ahead and scramble to post sources!

hehehehehe..

 

[jasendorf]

yes, PLEASE let's look at this statistically..

... blah blah blah...

Need I remind you that a population of non-english speaking ILLEGALS will always be < than the sparce population of the state of wyoming?

Oh, I see... so now you're adding new qualifiers to the equation to pretend the new and improved "facts" fit your ideology? Why are you suddenly trying to bring illegal immigration into this discussion? These programs are for students who are legally attending schools in the U.S. And, while I'm not sure what your "<" is supposed to mean (does that mean that their personal worth as human beings is somehow less than that of a blue-blooded Wyoman?), Wyomans, as a group, provide very little to our Republic. No offense, that's just the way it is. No one wants to live there. If Wyoming was a great state, people'd be flocking there. But, they're not.

Did you miss how a good portion of those you lump together as merely "spanish speaking" probably don't have valid rights to be here in the first place? Sorry, that sample just isn't as American as the few AMERICANS in Wyoming.

I'm talking Spanish-first children... children who learned Spanish before English... you know, the people the article and this topic are about. Sorry if I didn't veer wildly off topic into illegal immigration to suit your ideology... I know this may come as a huge surprise to you... but there are people in this very country who learned Spanish before English and, believe it or not, **GASP** are Americans!

but hey... what does the CDC know about the danger of isolation caused by refusing to learn the language? CERTAINLY nothing as long as the latino non-english population, on the surface, is more than the population of wyoming!

You (or someone you're now defending) brought up Wyoming... not me. I simply rolled with the premise. But, way to stick to your guns, change the subject into illegal immigration, and pretend like anything you've said has anythig to do with the topic at hand!

 

[Shogun]

he United States currently does not have an official language, but English is spoken by about 82% of the population as a native language. The variety of English spoken in the United States is known as American English; together with Canadian English it makes up the group of dialects known as North American English. 96% of the population of the U.S. speaks English well.[1] On May 18, 2006, the Senate voted on an amendment to an immigration reform bill that would declare English the national language of the United States.[2] The immigration reform bill itself, S. 2611, was passed in the Senate on May 25, 2006, and now has to go back to the House of Representatives in conference to make sure amendments are agreed upon.

The Spanish language is the second-most common language in the country, spoken by almost 30 million people (or 12% of the population) in 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_language


so... what's the difference between 82% and 12%?

I bet even Cynic American can figure this one out if we let him warm up with his pheonetic spelling cards for an hour.

 

[jasendorf]

so... what's the difference between 82% and 12%?

I bet even Cynic American can figure this one out if we let him warm up with his pheonetic spelling cards for an hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
Population Ranked 50th
- Total (2000) 493,782

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America
Population
- 2000 census 281,421,906

Percentage... 0.17%

What's the difference between 12% and 0.17%?

I bet even Shogun can figure this one out if we let him warm up with his pheonetic spelling cards for an hour.

 

[Shogun]

Oh, I see... so now you're adding new qualifiers to the equation to pretend the new and improved "facts" fit your ideology? Why are you suddenly trying to bring illegal immigration into this discussion? These programs are for students who are legally attending schools in the U.S. And, while I'm not sure what your "<" is supposed to mean (does that mean that their personal worth as human beings is somehow less than that of a blue-blooded Wyoman?), Wyomans, as a group, provide very little to our Republic. No offense, that's just the way it is. No one wants to live there. If Wyoming was a great state, people'd be flocking there. But, they're not.


Dude.. are you fucking kidding me? What new qualifiers don't you understand that puts CITIZENS OF WYOMING above LATINO SPEAKING NON CITIZENS in the WHO IS MORE AMERICAN HEIRARCHY? Good grief, dude. Say, what EXACTLY do you think that could be found in MEXICAN curricula that would reflect AMERICAN culture? Think there will be a lot of Presidents day references to be found? Weather or not wyoming is popular with Americans does not ignore the FACT that they are a part of the Union and, therefor, are automatically closer to what it is to be an AMERICAN than latinos who don't even know the fucking native language! Are Alaskans somehow LESS refelctive of the Average American than latinos because of THEIR population issues too? This tangent is absurd.



"I'm talking Spanish-first children... children who learned Spanish before English... you know, the people the article and this topic are about. Sorry if I didn't veer wildly off topic into illegal immigration to suit your ideology... I know this may come as a huge surprise to you... but there are people in this very country who learned Spanish before English and, believe it or not, **GASP** are Americans!


You insinuate that these kids HAVE LEARNED ENGLISH already. I don't care what language was learned first. I care that the language that the easy majority of Americans speak has not been learned with any proficiency as to keep the American Taxpayer from paying for what amounts to ESL classes in public schools. OBVIOUSLY if these kids require MEXICAN lessons then they have not learned workable ENGLISH so spare me the lecture on keeping this on topic. YOU can pretend that this issue is not a direct indication of the product of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION but, again, I'm betting the very people you are defending here wouldn't be too quick to whip out their STATUS DOCUMENTS around La Migra. I guess if you want to assume that I care about which language was learned first instead of tax payers paying for ESL classes for those who never bothered to learn the fucking language well enough to function in AMERICA it's all good.


At least cycnic America will chear you on since no one wants to talk to him today.




You (or someone you're now defending) brought up Wyoming... not me. I simply rolled with the premise. But, way to stick to your guns, change the subject into illegal immigration, and pretend like anything you've said has anythig to do with the topic at hand! [/QUOTE]