Some Leaders Actually Serve & Lead

[jillian]

Can you PROVE that ? You accusations you can stick up your ass, but I'll consider anything that you can actually PROVE.....

Well, even Worldnet Daily had something to say on the subject:

(note: these are excerpts... )

Posted: October 05, 2005
1:00 am Eastern

WASHINGTON ? The nomination of Harriet Miers as associate Supreme Court justice may have an unintended consequence for President Bush ? renewing questions about the long-forgotten issue of his National Guard service and charges of influence peddling by the man who raised those allegations in a CBS News interview in 2004.
In 1995, the year George W. Bush won the governorship of Texas, Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor, who later claimed in a "60 Minutes" interview with CBS' Dan Rather that George H.W. Bush approached him to secure a National Guard appointment for his son, secured a contract for a company called GTECH to run the Texas Lottery, reports WND columnist Jerome Corsi.

Barnes was granted a contract worth about 4 percent of the revenue generated by GTECH ? some $3 million a year. But, by 1997, with the company embroiled in controversy over allegations of political kickbacks, payoffs and overcharges, his contract was bought out by the company for $23 million.

Two years later, a former executive director of the Texas Lottery, Lawrence Littwin, filed a lawsuit alleging he lost his job as a result of political influence wielded by GTECH. He alleged in his lawsuit that much of GTECH's clout was the result of the work of Barnes, who affirmed under oath he had helped get the governor into the National Guard and out of military service in Vietnam.

The Littwin lawsuit was settled out of court with a $300,000 payoff ? and an unusual agreement that he would destroy all documents produced by the litigation, including any copies of the Barnes deposition.

Ben Barnes was not heard from again until 2004 when he explained his role in making sure George W. Bush got into the National Guard and avoided Vietnam service. The impact of the CBS story was minimized because of seemingly bogus documents used by Rather to buttress Barnes' story, and the revelation that Barnes served as a major John Kerry fundraiser.

"The Barnes melodrama got drowned out by the forged document saga, but to this day, nobody has disproved Barnes played the role he said he did," writes Corsi.

He adds: "CBS missed the boat. Dan Rather should never have forged documents. Instead, '60 Minutes' should have focused on GTECH, Ben Barnes and Harriet Miers."

*MORE*

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46671

 

[Zoomie1980]

Total bullshit.

He got into the Guard by special intervention of the LtGov of Texas to get out of going to Vietnam. He didn't even complete his tour. He got out to work on a political campaign.

Wow, patrolling the dangerous skies over Alabama. I bet there were SAM sites all over the place.

How much fukking kool aid does it take?

He flew F-106's, which was a very dangerous, fairly unstable aircraft. It was an interceptor. I've flown one myself.

But Bush, like Kerry, was "protected". Kerry's tour was a necessary part of his "grooming". His "combat" consisted of the three short months "in country" and his "medals" were dubious, so much that his immediate commanding officer refused to sign for any of them and was removed for insubordination.

But at least he did server...some... which is more than we can say for either current dem candidate. To be fair, Hillary couldn't really have served back in that time unless as a medical or legal officer.

Most national politicians have never served. I've been of the thought that ONLY military veterans should be allowed to run for President. If you are going to be a Commander In Chief you should have at least spent a tour doing what you will be commanding.

 

[Alpha1]

Well, even Worldnet Daily had something to say on the subject:

(note: these are excerpts... )



*MORE*

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46671

CAN WE GET REAL ...........????????

So what have you got....

Barnes, who affirmed under oath he had helped get the governor into the National Guard and out of military service in Vietnam.?

BUT...any copies of the Barnes deposition are not available....thats pretty convienent...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And of course ...bogus documents used by Rather to buttress Barnes' story, don't help you contention either, do they...?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And on top of all this.... the revelation that Barnes served as a major John Kerry fundraiser.
\the very same Barnes that make this accusation in the first place.....

A major Kerry fundraise makes accuastions against Bush and we're supposed to gobble it with koolaid as the truth...I think not...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you calim...."but to this day, nobody has disproved Barnes played the role he said he did,"

AS even a half-assed lawyer would know....no one has to disproved Barnes's claim....
ITS HIS JOB TO PROVE HIS CLAIM.....not ours to disprove it....

Dan Rather should never have forged documents ? That is actually something I can agree with.....

 

[Alpha1]

You and MM can by into this crap without batting any eye....and don't care about proof....

but when it comes to Clinton's draft dodging, all you have is Clinton's own
self-serving story about how he gained permission to return to Oxford instead of reporting for duty as the law demanded....
a letter, where Clinton apologized for not writing more often...and this is supposed to prove that Holmes was aware and approved
of Clinton going back to Oxford instead of reporting for duty as ordered....bullshit...

And you seriously expect everyone to believe that....

Its a case of ..."if you don't believe Clinton, just ask him"

Clinton didn't report for duty as ordered..thats a fact
At that moment, he became AWOL.....

The very fact that he was given special treatment by the draft board and high ranking officers to
cover it up ... is my proof.....

But the fools that claim you need to be convicted of robbery to be a thief, or be convicted of murder to be a murderer,
or be convicted of a felony to be guilty of committing a felony, can continue to live in their land of Oz...

 

[jillian]

CAN WE GET REAL ...........????????

So what have you got....

Barnes, who affirmed under oath he had helped get the governor into the National Guard and out of military service in Vietnam.?

BUT...any copies of the Barnes deposition are not available....thats pretty convienent...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And of course ...bogus documents used by Rather to buttress Barnes' story, don't help you contention either, do they...?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And on top of all this.... the revelation that Barnes served as a major John Kerry fundraiser.
\the very same Barnes that make this accusation in the first place.....

A major Kerry fundraise makes accuastions against Bush and we're supposed to gobble it with koolaid as the truth...I think not...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you calim...."but to this day, nobody has disproved Barnes played the role he said he did,"

AS even a half-assed lawyer would know....no one has to disproved Barnes's claim....
ITS HIS JOB TO PROVE HIS CLAIM.....not ours to disprove it....

Dan Rather should never have forged documents ? That is actually something I can agree with.....

S'okay. We all know that the rabid right only needs "proof" of things that apply to repubs... they're perfectly happy, however, to take as fact any allegation made against a dem. And Dan Rather NEVER forged anything.... though CBS should have been more careful because what happened was that the loonies will still ignore the real story, which they got right, and focus on that one piece of paper to pretend that Bush isn't what they said he is.

 

[Taomon]

Bush was a fighter pilot that patrolled the US skys for all the time he was in flight status as a Air National Guard pilot. He flew THE most dangerous aircraft in the US inventory and he flew it more often and for more hours then required. He also volunteered to go to Viet Nam, as opposed to the draft Dodging Clinton.

Cheney got LEGAL deferrments again unlike the felon Clinton that had to receive a Presidental Pardon.

You really believe that? Kerry also volunteered for active duty in Vietnam, and was somehow stationed there when Bush was never - ever sent. Hmmm. The millions of kids who were drafted and sent had no choice and definitely went into combat in Vietnam and somehow Bush wanted to go but was stationed in Texas to patrol those dangerous skies over Texas in the most dangerous aircraft ever (mostly because he was the pilot) and never made it into combat?

I think you are putting the blinders on a little too much in your scenario. The problem is that news coverage and investigative journalism has been sold out to corporate interests...and they love their Bush. And you buy it. How shameful.

 

[Taomon]

Can you PROVE that ? You accusations you can stick up your ass, but I'll consider anything that you can actually PROVE.....

It would be easier to prove had the one witness willing to speak the truth had not died and all other records sealed and labeled as classified.

It is true, and there is little we can do to prove it. Can you prove RGS's contention? I know he will refuse to prove his contention, but why are you taking others to task and not RGS? Why does RGS and Gunny always get away with just bellowing out their unproven opinion and everyone else has to prove his or her points?

This is more one-sided than Christian faith (an oxymoron if I ever heard one).

 

[Taomon]

Most national politicians have never served. I've been of the thought that ONLY military veterans should be allowed to run for President. If you are going to be a Commander In Chief you should have at least spent a tour doing what you will be commanding.

I disagree, that would make our nation more militaristic. The reason this is unnecessary is because the president has military adviser's who have served tours of duty. Now, the people who have served in combat run the same political gambit as the rest of us...some are liberal, some conservative, some are more diplomatic oriented and other are warmongers.

This board is a microcosm of American sentiment.

There are extremists but most are centrists.

 

[Taomon]

You and MM can by into this crap without batting any eye....and don't care about proof

Actually, proof was available and had the media and Congress allowed it to surface, Bush would not be president today.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1925114769515892401

This video is long, but very important. Bush lost in 2000 and his presidency has altered our society adversely. Look how divided we have become as a nation. One good thing that has come is that Bush's ilk has proven that Americans do not want unnecessary wars and do not like corruption, as evidenced by the 2005 elections.

 

[rayboyusmc]

The former LtGov of Texas admitted that he had helped people get into the Guard and that George Bush was one of them. He finally realized that he was sending some people to their death in Vietnam and saving others. If the article still exists, I will post it.

Among the questions Bush had to answer on his application forms was whether he wanted to go overseas. Bush checked the box that said: "do not volunteer."

The Marine Corps Officer fitness report had a place where you requested your next duty stations. WestPac was the one most picked as their first choice back then. We still believed all of LBJ's bullshit about the Gulf of Tonkin and Dominoes falling in Asia.

Bush said in an interview that he did not recall checking the box. Two weeks later, his office provided a statement from a former, state-level Air Guard personnel officer, asserting that since Bush "was applying for a specific position with the 147th Fighter Group, it would have been inappropriate for him to have volunteered for an overseas assignment and he probably was so advised by the military personnel clerk assisting him in completing the form."

During a second interview, Bush himself raised the issue.

"Had my unit been called up, I'd have gone . . . to Vietnam," Bush said. "I was prepared to go."

But there was no chance Bush's unit would be ordered overseas. Bush says that toward the end of his training in 1970, he tried to volunteer for overseas duty, asking a commander to put his name on the list for a "Palace Alert" program, which dispatched qualified F-102 pilots in the Guard to the Europe and the Far East, occasionally to Vietnam, on three- to six-month assignments.

He was turned down on the spot. "I did [ask] – and I was told, 'You're not going,' " Bush said.

Only pilots with extensive flying time – at the outset, 1,000 hours were required – were sent overseas under the voluntary program. The Air Force, moreover, was retiring the aging F-102s and had ordered all overseas F-102 units closed down as of June 30, 1970.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Total bullshit.

He got into the Guard by special intervention of the LtGov of Texas to get out of going to Vietnam. He didn't even complete his tour. He got out to work on a political campaign.

Wow, patrolling the dangerous skies over Alabama. I bet there were SAM sites all over the place.

How much fukking kool aid does it take?

Evidence please, some proof that A) anyone was bumped to allow Bush in the Guard abd B) Anyone actually intervened to get him in.

And again for the slow, in the Guard it was and still is standard practice to allow people to do as Bush did, any rank , any billet. I realize the truth of that does not matter to liars like you but it is true.

 

[Taomon]

Evidence please, some proof that A) anyone was bumped to allow Bush in the Guard abd B) Anyone actually intervened to get him in.

And again for the slow, in the Guard it was and still is standard practice to allow people to do as Bush did, any rank , any billet. I realize the truth of that does not matter to liars like you but it is true.

If investigative journalism was not stymied by the monopolization of the media outlets, evidence would readily be available.

 

[Alpha1]

S'okay. We all know that the rabid right only needs "proof" of things that apply to repubs... they're perfectly happy, however, to take as fact any allegation made against a dem.

Your conclusion is just not true...I said I'd be very willing consider any proof offered...PROOF, as opposed to more accusations....
and what did we get from you...more accusations, no proof....

#1...An accusation from a Democratic, Kerry supporter,

#2...Of which his sworn deposition is mysteriously, conveniently, unavailable.

#3..And in the end, a big time newsman, (Dan Rather, liberal, Democrat, and certified, on air, Bush basher) tries to pass off a forged document as proof of these accusation.....

And you say..I'M perfectly happy, however, to take as fact any allegation made against a dem. ? When the exact opposite is the truth...

Then you continue:

And Dan Rather NEVER forged anything.... though CBS should have been more careful because what happened was that the loonies will still ignore the real story, which they got right, and focus on that one piece of paper to pretend that Bush isn't what they said he is.

Dan Rather NEVER forged anything?

Well, dearie,..that little line cam DIRECTLY from YOUR POST #21...excerpts....
So YOU didn't get it right in the first place, did you?

 

[maineman]

Dan Rather NEVER forged anything?

Well, dearie,..that little line cam DIRECTLY from YOUR POST #21...excerpts....
So YOU didn't get it right in the first place, did you?

you honestly think that Dan Rather forged those documents himself?

working away at his word processor.... spilling alittle coffee on them... crumpling the edges?

really?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you honestly think that Dan Rather forged those documents himself?

working away at his word processor.... spilling alittle coffee on them... crumpling the edges?

really?

He KNEW they were fake. He and his producer FIRED their expert that TOLD them the documents could NOT be verified. So lets get it straight, Bush is responsible for anyone he hires but Dan Rather is not?

 

[Taomon]

He KNEW they were fake. He and his producer FIRED their expert that TOLD them the documents could NOT be verified. So lets get it straight, Bush is responsible for anyone he hires but Dan Rather is not?

Dan Rather did not hire anyone. Dan Rather was an anchorman.

Bush does appoint people. Bush has hired people. And they acted on his behalf to perpetuate a specific agenda.

See the difference?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Dan Rather did not hire anyone. Dan Rather was an anchorman.

Bush does appoint people. Bush has hired people. And they acted on his behalf to perpetuate a specific agenda.

See the difference?

Wrong again boob, Dan Rather picks his staff and he "hires" them. He and HIS producer were BOTH told the document was not authentic and THEY cose to FIRE the expert that told them. I realize you do not like those facts but thats what happened. Or did you miss that part of the story when it was reported by others?

Now go ahead and demand evidence for the facts you will not believe anyway.

 

[Alpha1]

you honestly think that Dan Rather forged those documents himself?

working away at his word processor.... spilling alittle coffee on them... crumpling the edges?

really?

It wasn't my conclusion.....and isn't my conclusion....that line came from a post from our lawyer friend....Jillian.....have a problem with it ...see her

I just find it ironic that she would 'correct' me for posting a c&p directly from her....funny indeed!

 

[jillian]

It wasn't my conclusion.....and isn't my conclusion....that line came from a post from our lawyer friend....Jillian.....have a problem with it ...see her

I just find it ironic that she would 'correct' me for posting a c&p directly from her....funny indeed!

The quote was from newsmax... are you surprised it said Dan Rather "forged documents"? Dan Rather forged nothing... CBS wasn't careful enough but the story was correct. Pity it got caught up on that one doco....

And the point of the article, in case you missed it, was even newsmax said Bush's daddy used his influence to get Bush into the guard and out of Vietnam.

Cheers....

 

[maineman]

He KNEW they were fake. He and his producer FIRED their expert that TOLD them the documents could NOT be verified. So lets get it straight, Bush is responsible for anyone he hires but Dan Rather is not?

so let's get it straight...you think that Dan Rather hired a forger?