Solutions for Universal Healthcare in the US

[AzogtheDefiler]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

How would the police have known that since they ran?

Nothing wrong with deciding to walk. If we really believe in the 2nd Amendment the police had no reason to do anything.

They were pulled over on the road with their hazards on at 2AM and dressed in military fatigues. Stop it.

The horrors.

The laws.

 

[pknopp]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

How would the police have known that since they ran?

Nothing wrong with deciding to walk. If we really believe in the 2nd Amendment the police had no reason to do anything.

They were pulled over on the road with their hazards on at 2AM and dressed in military fatigues. Stop it.

The horrors.

The laws.

State laws do not trump the Constitution.

 

[krichton]

#4 Tax breaks for those that don't use universal care? Healthcare is paid through taxes, not tax breaks. If the wealthy and well off never use the healthcare and get tax breaks for not using it, where is the revenue to fund universal health supposed to come from? Not only are they losing taxes but now they're actually giving money away. This is a recipe for absolute disaster.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

How would the police have known that since they ran?

Nothing wrong with deciding to walk. If we really believe in the 2nd Amendment the police had no reason to do anything.

They were pulled over on the road with their hazards on at 2AM and dressed in military fatigues. Stop it.

The horrors.

The laws.

State laws do not trump the Constitution.

Actually they work hand in hand.

 

[justinacolmena]

Actually they work hand in hand.

Not quite. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and it trumps any other laws which are not made in pursuance of it, and any state laws which contain anything contrary to it.

The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription

[get-content name="print-page-left" include-tag="false" /] Note: The following text is a transcription of the Constitution as it was inscribed by Jacob Shallus on parchment (the document on display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum.) The spelling and punctuation reflect the original.

www.archives.gov

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

 

[Captain Caveman]

We don't need government to provide us with health care. In a free society, government isn't our "provider". To the extent that it is, society is not free.

The government in all countries do and don't. What I mean is, healthcare is in all countries, and they're all funded in the same way, but the ratio is different. So to further explain, funding (how your healthcare is paid for) can come from government, your employer, you directly, insurance, crowd funding etc..

So in the UK, 80% is paid by the government, in the US, that percentage is way much lower.

So if you go to your local hospital and the bill for your treatment is £5,000, are you saying whoever paid the bill provided the healthcare? Here in the UK, I've used healthcare paid for by the NHS (government taxes), myself, and my parents paid for an MRI scan. My perspective is, the hospital provides the healthcare, different sources pay the bill.

On average per month in the UK, £500 per person in taxation goes towards healthcare. In the US, private healthcare insurance is over £1,000 per month, on average.

 

[justinacolmena]

are you saying whoever paid the bill provided the healthcare?

Do you mean malpractice, pain and suffering, mayhem, malicious disfigurement, wrongful death?

Why else would you ever want to see a doctor?

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 9:12 - King James Version

But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

www.biblegateway.com

Tobit 2:10 KJV - And I knew not that there were sparrows in the wall, and mine eyes being open, the sparrows muted warm dung into mine eyes, and a whiteness came in mine eyes: and I went to the physicians, but they helped me not: moreover Achiacharus

Tobit 2:10 King James Version KJV And I knew not that there were sparrows in the wall, and mine eyes being open, the sparrows muted warm dung into mine eyes, and a whiteness came in mine eyes: and I went to the physicians, but they helped me not: moreover Achiacharus did nourish me, until I went...

thekingjamesversionbible.com

 

[Captain Caveman]

The most expensive country for healthcare is the US. On the world's list of Best Healthcare, the US ranked 37th. Being stubborn over who pays your medical costs is ripping you off, big style.

Best Healthcare in the World 2024

 

[krichton]

The most expensive country for healthcare is the US. On the world's list of Best Healthcare, the US ranked 37th. Being stubborn over who pays your medical costs is ripping you off, big style.

Best Healthcare in the World 2024

We just beat out Slovenia and Cuba, be proud fellow americans!!

 

[dblack]

The problem with political efforts to reform health care of they always put politicians in charge of health care.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

The most expensive country for healthcare is the US. On the world's list of Best Healthcare, the US ranked 37th. Being stubborn over who pays your medical costs is ripping you off, big style.

Best Healthcare in the World 2024

We just beat out Slovenia and Cuba, be proud fellow americans!!

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

 

[Stryder50]

I would suggest everyone join the military do yer service and yer healthcare needs can be met.

Thing is, some of us are(were) medically disqualified, so that isn't a "universal" option at this time.

Also, everything has to be paid for, including medical care. One of the main factors in the large "Defense" budget for the USA; and also a factor in our growing Deficit and National Debts.

 

[Stryder50]

I have the best solution:

1. No universal health care

2. No government welfare program

3. No government subsidies

4. Everybody is responsible for their own health care bills and the government has nothing to do with it.

So then we just let people die who cannot afford treatment? Not sure about that. I like The personal responsibility aspect but it’s not feasible IMO.

An old Irish saying;
"The longer you live, the sooner you'll die."
None of us gets out of here (living on Earth) alive, in our physical bodies that is. The question is when and how. Personal responsibility has a lot to do with how you care for your health.

 

[Stryder50]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

So you think I should only have half a baseball bat, or half a sword?
How about you wear a yellow arm band in public and if you are ever assaulted, I'll know you don't want me to use my conceal carry pistol to defend you from your attackers.

 

[Rigby5]

That is if you take it as a whole. Middle Class, Gov't workers and wealthy people generally have very good insurance and healthcare but the rest suffer and it brings down the overall rating.

True, but the insurance companies still cause health care to cost over twice what it should, and you still have no means of complaining, controlling, or suing over cost or quality.
You have already prepaid with insurance, and can't afford to be dropped and lose your health care access.
It seems clear to me that insurance companies have to be taken out of health care.
They add nothing and not only greatly increase the costs, but the paperwork.

 

[Rigby5]

Actually they work hand in hand.

State laws and the constitution only work well hand in hand when the constitution is adhered to.
And the interstate commerce laws giver the right of people traveling through other states, to possess firearms that are legal in the state they are from, regardless of the laws of the state they are traveling through.

 

[Stryder50]

I'm going to bang the drum again on one of my pet peeves, which is sloppy and inaccurate language~word usage; especially on this sort of topic.

"Healthcare"

What you do to take CARE of your HEALTH, personal lifestyle choices, is the correct use of the term "healthcare". Proper and nutritional diet, adequate exercise and activity, plenty of good rest(sleep), and avoiding dangerous activities/sports, etc., are what should be considered 'healthcare' or 'care of one's health'.

Medical Care

When your "care of health" isn't enough to save you from health issues, such as disease or injury, then one would seek "Medical Care" via doctor, hospital, clinic, etc. to augment your personal lifestyle "care of health".

Medical Insurance

If you don't have the financial resources to "pay out of pocket" for your medical care, then one seeks to have a form of medical insurance to provide for some to most (or all) of that expense. Of course, the more you want your medical insurance to cover/pay for, the more such insurance will cost you. Or society in general if the medical insurance is via your guv'mint (fellow citizens).

Logic and reason would suggest some practical limits to the coverage provided by medical insurance, to keep costs low as possible. Many of us can understand that if our auto insurance was to include things like tune-ups, oil change and lube, new tires, etc. than our auto insurance premiums(costs) will be much higher than when we are paying for more major episode coverage such as damage and injury due to accidents.

To many here in this thread, and the many other similar ones, use of the term "healthcare" tends to reference any one of the three different concepts which should be labeled in more precise and specific terms. Result is we often talk to cross concepts and issues, and one poster is talking bananas when another poster is talking watermelons; and both thing they are discussing the same thing/concept.

OK, back to your usual channel and programming ....

 

[pknopp]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

So you think I should only have half a baseball bat, or half a sword?
How about you wear a yellow arm band in public and if you are ever assaulted, I'll know you don't want me to use my conceal carry pistol to defend you from your attackers.

I think you need to read the entire post in context and try again. I said they had less than one weapon apiece. That is NOT a small arsenal.

 

[Stryder50]

The most expensive country for healthcare is the US. On the world's list of Best Healthcare, the US ranked 37th. Being stubborn over who pays your medical costs is ripping you off, big style.

Best Healthcare in the World 2024

Two things to consider;
1) Most medical research, new technics, and new drugs/medications are via USA efforts. So some of our "costs" are reflections of the R&D investments here.
2) Many of those "better" nations are providing such at a national deficit and debt load being passed on to the future generations.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

There are other factors, such as USA laws that patients can't be turned away from emergency room care because they don't have insurance, can't pay. Those costs then get passed onto those whom do have insurance and can pay.

 

[Stryder50]

What do you mean? What point are you trying to make? That we should give up?

That we do not have a free society so don't argue we do.

I still don't get your point. I'm not arguing that we have a perfectly free society. It's not a toggle switch. We can have more freedom, or less. What's your preference?

One never has "freedom" absent of life and health.

I still don't get your point. You seem to see it as an all-or-nothing prospect. Why?? Just building a strawman so you can dismiss it?

I am not able to grasp the idea of being able to afford health care as being a drag on anyone's freedom.

I realize that. I'm trying to explain it to you. When someone controls access to the things you need, they control you.

Would you also advocate for government controlling access to housing? Food? Everything else we need?

I'll take you seriously when I see you defend the 11 arrested in Massachusetts.

When you run from cops you get arrested. I live in MA.

Chicken/egg. When you live in a free country there is no reason to avoid arrest here.

Don't run from cops who will question you when youre wearing fatigues and carrying a small arsenal.

Less than one weapon each and the 2nd Amendment acknowledges that right.

So you think I should only have half a baseball bat, or half a sword?
How about you wear a yellow arm band in public and if you are ever assaulted, I'll know you don't want me to use my conceal carry pistol to defend you from your attackers.

I think you need to read the entire post in context and try again. I said they had less than one weapon apiece. That is NOT a small arsenal.

Sorry but the context and wording you used was not that clear.