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You don't seem to understand what is happening. He didn't get arrested for refusing to deploy. He got arrested for a song he sent to the Pentagon in July 09'. Someone is exploiting the Ft Hood shooting to try and keep it quiet that stop loss is having a very negative reaction. Putting Hall's song in the centerpiece is a way of demonizing him so the pro war crowd can say he's a nutbag so it doesn't matter what he says. I agree he should follow his commitment but from my view that would mean protesting deployment due to an illegal occupation. If it was a legit conflict I wouldn't support his protesting at all.
I do understand, that is the exact reason I posted what I did, to show that this young man knew exactly what he was doing when he sent that song and should have known what to expect in the form of disciplne for doing so. We won't go back through the debate over Free Speech in the military as you seem to know there is none. So what this boils down to is a young man that has violated the UCMJ and because he feels that the "stop-loss" policy is unfair that somehow gives him a right to override the UCMJ and exercise and freedom he clearly does not have. If he had wanted this Freedom in the first place Curve, or desired it, or was opposed to the DoD's policy on "stop-loss" then I suggest he should not have walked into the Recruiters office 5 years after its implementation and joined the Army in the first place.
If the song was such a problem why did they wait six months to arrest him for it? Clearly he was not a danger to himself or his unit as he was cleared by his COC and a Psych eval after he sent the song.
What I'm driving at is Ready Reserves already drill once a month and for 2 weeks...whereas IRR members finished their active duty time and are just finishing out their contract without drilling or any contact with the military. Now if there was a critical specialty( i.e. SEAL, EOD, Special Forces, Medic/Corpsman) that required them to be recalled that's a different story. The services would call a RR drilling reservist to active duty because it would be cheaper and then if the necessary specialties still weren't filled, they tap the IRR's.
Ready Reserves do not drill. I believe I posted the link more than once that defined the RR. I see you conveniently ignored that. You fucked up. Admit it and move on.
First of all....many of the IRR soldiers have been off active duty for a while and have jobs in the civilian sector. You can't just uproot them and send them off to war. They don't meet the criteria for remobilization. The General's in charge of the Reserve Forces don't pay much attention to left wing whining points and stupid movies about stop loss.
The IRR doesn't meet the criteria for remobilization? Have you shared this information with the Pentagon and DOD? They could use an obviously genius military adviser. Why do you think the IRR exists?
As for Stop Loss....once again you prove to put your partisan agenda above all else. Conservatives (not neocons and their supporters) as well as Liberals are against Stop Loss. The problem with people like you is not having the first damn clue how to defend your positions so you avoid defending them on their own merits and instead choose to demonize dissenters. That way you can avoid revealing your own inability for the debate while also not addressing points made by others. It's stale.
Your bluring the line between READY RESERVE and IRR....IRR's DO NOT DRILL and therefore are at the bottom of the list UNLESS they volunteer to be re-instated to active duty.
READY RESERVISTS ARE WEEKEND WARRIORS AND DRILL! The services will TAKE THEM before re-activating an IRR. Read the USA Today article.
You should really try to get your facts straight before posting.
I do understand, that is the exact reason I posted what I did, to show that this young man knew exactly what he was doing when he sent that song and should have known what to expect in the form of disciplne for doing so. We won't go back through the debate over Free Speech in the military as you seem to know there is none. So what this boils down to is a young man that has violated the UCMJ and because he feels that the "stop-loss" policy is unfair that somehow gives him a right to override the UCMJ and exercise and freedom he clearly does not have. If he had wanted this Freedom in the first place Curve, or desired it, or was opposed to the DoD's policy on "stop-loss" then I suggest he should not have walked into the Recruiters office 5 years after its implementation and joined the Army in the first place.
If the song was such a problem why did they wait six months to arrest him for it? Clearly he was not a danger to himself or his unit as he was cleared by his COC and a Psych eval after he sent the song.
You know as well as I do that 6 months is not a very long time in terms of an investigation leading to arrest , unless your talking about some sailor sent to Captains Mast for some problem while on shore leave. As far the the timing goes your asking me to speculate on what his evals were. perhaps they had no idea on the video.
After learning the Military reneged on it's contract to allow Spc Hall out of the Army after serving 4 years he wrote a protest song containing violent lyrics. In response, the military arrested him. Stop Loss has been a quiet thunder for quite a few years. For those who don't know, Soldiers face the ultimate of morose ironies. They voluntarily offer to Sacrifice their lives to defend the Constitution but they themselves have to foreit the Constitution in the process. The UCMJ is the supreme law of their land, not the Constitution. They do not have Freedom of the Press, Expression, or Speech. So the question is this: Should those who Sacrifice their lives defending Free Speech be prosecuted for exercising Free Speech?
Soldier at US base jailed for angry rap song - NewsFlash - al.com
After learning the Military reneged on it's contract to allow Spc Hall out of the Army after serving 4 years he wrote a protest song containing violent lyrics. In response, the military arrested him. Stop Loss has been a quiet thunder for quite a few years. For those who don't know, Soldiers face the ultimate of morose ironies. They voluntarily offer to Sacrifice their lives to defend the Constitution but they themselves have to foreit the Constitution in the process. The UCMJ is the supreme law of their land, not the Constitution. They do not have Freedom of the Press, Expression, or Speech. So the question is this: Should those who Sacrifice their lives defending Free Speech be prosecuted for exercising Free Speech?
Soldier at US base jailed for angry rap song - NewsFlash - al.com
actually, it's my understanding that the contract allows for modification based on need a la stop loss.
whether he was right or whether he was wrong, he did give up his right to freedom of speech the day he put on the uniform.
After learning the Military reneged on it's contract to allow Spc Hall out of the Army after serving 4 years he wrote a protest song containing violent lyrics. In response, the military arrested him. Stop Loss has been a quiet thunder for quite a few years. For those who don't know, Soldiers face the ultimate of morose ironies. They voluntarily offer to Sacrifice their lives to defend the Constitution but they themselves have to foreit the Constitution in the process. The UCMJ is the supreme law of their land, not the Constitution. They do not have Freedom of the Press, Expression, or Speech. So the question is this: Should those who Sacrifice their lives defending Free Speech be prosecuted for exercising Free Speech?
Soldier at US base jailed for angry rap song - NewsFlash - al.com
The IRR doesn't meet the criteria for remobilization? Have you shared this information with the Pentagon and DOD? They could use an obviously genius military adviser. Why do you think the IRR exists?
As for Stop Loss....once again you prove to put your partisan agenda above all else. Conservatives (not neocons and their supporters) as well as Liberals are against Stop Loss. The problem with people like you is not having the first damn clue how to defend your positions so you avoid defending them on their own merits and instead choose to demonize dissenters. That way you can avoid revealing your own inability for the debate while also not addressing points made by others. It's stale.
Your bluring the line between READY RESERVE and IRR....IRR's DO NOT DRILL and therefore are at the bottom of the list UNLESS they volunteer to be re-instated to active duty.
READY RESERVISTS ARE WEEKEND WARRIORS AND DRILL! The services will TAKE THEM before re-activating an IRR. Read the USA Today article.
You should really try to get your facts straight before posting.
That was your claim. That was flat out wrong as I showed the Ready Reserves includes the IRR.
"The Ready Reserve consists of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve and Inactive National Guard. To learn more about these three subcategories, see the Topics Index on the right."
Military.com Resources
You can't squirm out of it like you do everything else when you're flat out wrong.
Here is YOUR LIE!!!!!I believe I posted the link more than once that defined the RR.
Here is where I proved what I said is true beyond a reasonable doubt.Ready Reserves do not drill.
Now...once again your pathetic google vet ass has been shot down. Shut your pie hole biatch.Selected Reserve (also called SELRES, SR, or mistakenly Selective Reserve) is a term that describes both the members of a U.S. military Ready Reserve unit that are enrolled in the Ready Reserve program
Selected Reserve members are considered to be in Active status. They are required to complete a specified number of drill periods per year by reporting to their reserve unit and completing the prescribed training. They are also required to complete a two week period of job-specific training. Selected Reserve members receive pay and benefits and are issued the same DOD Geneva Conventions Identification Card that Active Duty service members receive....
He didn't do the song to represent the military. He did it to represent himself in protest for being forced to stay in the military a full year past his contract.
His contract was for 8 YEARS. 4 on active duty and 4 more where he could be CALLED to active DUTY. Guess what? They called him. You may want to actually learn what you are talking about before you sound off like an idiot.
It's always funny when people like yourself make assumptions them do a little soap box parade based o your owm ignorance. If you had paid attention at all to the thread you would know I'm aware of the IRR. Maybe you don't have the balls to be honest about it but I know for the longest time it was commonly understood the chances of being called up on IRR were very slim. Many Troops, over 180,000 have been hit with Stop Loss. I'm not complaining about the program itself. I'm saying all soldiers should share in the responsibility. Instead of doing a stop loss on all active duty we should rotate a certain percentage of the RR. Why only activate those on active duty? Why not hold the RRs accountable for their obligation?
(btw, did you ever come to terms with the fact it was the CPA that gave Blackwater full immunity and not any Treaty with Iraq? Yeah. It pisses me off when you bitch up and down about being informed but refuse to admit when you are guilty of ignorance. I'll call you out every time.)
I'll buy that this soldier is somewhat a victim of circumstance. After Hood, the Army isn't going to fool around with any threats or telegraphs of violence. I don't blame them.
It might not be fair, but life isn't fair. He knew he was putting himself out there when he wrote this and (bizarrely) sent it to the Pentagon.
Had hood not have happened, it might not have been a big deal. But Hood did happen, and now it is a big deal.
His contract was for 8 YEARS. 4 on active duty and 4 more where he could be CALLED to active DUTY. Guess what? They called him. You may want to actually learn what you are talking about before you sound off like an idiot.
It's always funny when people like yourself make assumptions them do a little soap box parade based o your owm ignorance. If you had paid attention at all to the thread you would know I'm aware of the IRR. Maybe you don't have the balls to be honest about it but I know for the longest time it was commonly understood the chances of being called up on IRR were very slim. Many Troops, over 180,000 have been hit with Stop Loss. I'm not complaining about the program itself. I'm saying all soldiers should share in the responsibility. Instead of doing a stop loss on all active duty we should rotate a certain percentage of the RR. Why only activate those on active duty? Why not hold the RRs accountable for their obligation?
(btw, did you ever come to terms with the fact it was the CPA that gave Blackwater full immunity and not any Treaty with Iraq? Yeah. It pisses me off when you bitch up and down about being informed but refuse to admit when you are guilty of ignorance. I'll call you out every time.)
Moron. For one thing it is cheaper to keep already active members active then it is to call up a fat out of shape dude that has been out 2 years. But hey don't let reality get in your way of a good whine and rant. As for Blackwater the State Department gave them immunity you dumb ass.
Your bluring the line between READY RESERVE and IRR....IRR's DO NOT DRILL and therefore are at the bottom of the list UNLESS they volunteer to be re-instated to active duty.
READY RESERVISTS ARE WEEKEND WARRIORS AND DRILL! The services will TAKE THEM before re-activating an IRR. Read the USA Today article.
You should really try to get your facts straight before posting.
That was your claim. That was flat out wrong as I showed the Ready Reserves includes the IRR.
"The Ready Reserve consists of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve and Inactive National Guard. To learn more about these three subcategories, see the Topics Index on the right."
Military.com Resources
You can't squirm out of it like you do everything else when you're flat out wrong.
Here is your claim RIGHT ABOVE YOU DIPSHIT!!!!
Here is YOUR LIE!!!!!
Here is where I proved what I said is true beyond a reasonable doubt.Ready Reserves do not drill.
Now...once again your pathetic google vet ass has been shot down. Shut your pie hole biatch.Selected Reserve (also called SELRES, SR, or mistakenly Selective Reserve) is a term that describes both the members of a U.S. military Ready Reserve unit that are enrolled in the Ready Reserve program
Selected Reserve members are considered to be in Active status. They are required to complete a specified number of drill periods per year by reporting to their reserve unit and completing the prescribed training. They are also required to complete a two week period of job-specific training. Selected Reserve members receive pay and benefits and are issued the same DOD Geneva Conventions Identification Card that Active Duty service members receive....
That was your claim. That was flat out wrong as I showed the Ready Reserves includes the IRR.
"The Ready Reserve consists of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve and Inactive National Guard. To learn more about these three subcategories, see the Topics Index on the right."
Military.com Resources
You can't squirm out of it like you do everything else when you're flat out wrong.
Here is your claim RIGHT ABOVE YOU DIPSHIT!!!!
Here is YOUR LIE!!!!!
Here is where I proved what I said is true beyond a reasonable doubt.
Now...once again your pathetic google vet ass has been shot down. Shut your pie hole biatch.Selected Reserve (also called SELRES, SR, or mistakenly Selective Reserve) is a term that describes both the members of a U.S. military Ready Reserve unit that are enrolled in the Ready Reserve program
Selected Reserve members are considered to be in Active status. They are required to complete a specified number of drill periods per year by reporting to their reserve unit and completing the prescribed training. They are also required to complete a two week period of job-specific training. Selected Reserve members receive pay and benefits and are issued the same DOD Geneva Conventions Identification Card that Active Duty service members receive....
It was my mistake to say Ready Reserves do not Drill because the RR contains groups that Drill (Selected Reserve) and those that do not Drill, like the IRR. Not all Ready Reservists drill as seen by the evidence I provided:
"The Ready Reserve consists of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve and Inactive National Guard. To learn more about these three subcategories, see the Topics Index on the right."
Military.com Resources
The difference between us is I have no problem admitting when I make an error. Whereas you refuse to make such an admission then try to imply a Combat Vet is lying about his service. Kudos.
Here is your claim RIGHT ABOVE YOU DIPSHIT!!!!
Here is YOUR LIE!!!!!
Here is where I proved what I said is true beyond a reasonable doubt.
Now...once again your pathetic google vet ass has been shot down. Shut your pie hole biatch.
It was my mistake to say Ready Reserves do not Drill because the RR contains groups that Drill (Selected Reserve) and those that do not Drill, like the IRR. Not all Ready Reservists drill as seen by the evidence I provided:
"The Ready Reserve consists of the Selected Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve and Inactive National Guard. To learn more about these three subcategories, see the Topics Index on the right."
Military.com Resources
The difference between us is I have no problem admitting when I make an error. Whereas you refuse to make such an admission then try to imply a Combat Vet is lying about his service. Kudos.
Don't play that game with me pal...wearing your alleged status on your sleave looking for empathy from some other board members here....FUCK YOU....you are so fucking stupid you don't even know who or what component of reservists drill...did you take a couple rounds to the head? Is that why your so dense? FYI...I wasn't wrong. YOU were.
Charges filed against Hall, of South Carolina, on Dec. 17, a week after he was jailed, say his threats weren't just confined to his rap recording. The charging document said he also told soldiers he would "go on a rampage" and that he "was planning on shooting the brigade and battalion commanders."
That's not protected speech.
Charges filed against Hall, of South Carolina, on Dec. 17, a week after he was jailed, say his threats weren't just confined to his rap recording. The charging document said he also told soldiers he would "go on a rampage" and that he "was planning on shooting the brigade and battalion commanders."
That's not protected speech.
After Fort Hood, I think the military is going to have little tolerance for verbal threats against the country or army - at least if you're not a member of a priviledged minority...
What they should do in the future however is have a special disclosure that recruits have to read and sign - acknowledging that the Stop Loss provision would allow the army to unilaterally extend their military term indefinitely.
I agree with the sentiment of the OP - Stop Loss is not fair - but it is legal.
