Socialized medicine does not work...

[NCC1701]

Dishonest bitch, now you deem SAFE CARE the most all most important variable and throw out another meaningless report. I don't disagree with the report, you do. The report said the US had more effective care, period.

M'am, please get a hold of yourself and refrain from using profanity. I am one of the few righteous conservatives left. Perhaps once upon a time you too shared the same morality and values I do, but; presently, you have slid into the gutter with other fallen souls seduced by the lure of Trump's brand of Populism. Take my hand and allow me to lead you back to the path of righteousness.

Your crawling days are over. get off your knees. and stop paying homage to Trump..You must learn to walk again: I will assist you in taking those first baby steps:

The REPAWT:

Please excuse my English accent but want to be clear. Which "repawt" are you referring to? I'll assume it is the "repawt " generated by the CF. Here is my response to your inane claim that the repawt indicated the US had more effective care, period: Read and run....run for your literary life for I am bringing truth and light to this thread even as the darkness and the agents working within it scatter before the might of truth's light! Heh heh heh! : BEHOLDDDDD!:


ABSTRACT

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in prior editions of Mirror, Mirror. The United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland. Since the data in this study were collected, the U.S. has made significant strides adopting health information technology and undertaking payment and delivery system reforms spurred by the Affordable Care Act. Continued implementation of the law could further encourage more affordable access and more efficient organi- zation and delivery of health care, and allow investment in preventive and population health measures that could improve the performance of the U.S. health care system.

I would never share your values, you are dishonest or very dense. I can't make it any clearer for your slow mind. When performance of a health care system is linked to variables outside of health care, but you insist on denying it in spite of your own quote from the commonwealth report, well then you are either just a liar or an idiot, your call on that one.

 

[JQPublic1]

Dishonest bitch, now you deem SAFE CARE the most all most important variable and throw out another meaningless report. I don't disagree with the report, you do. The report said the US had more effective care, period.

M'am, please get a hold of yourself and refrain from using profanity. I am one of the few righteous conservatives left. Perhaps once upon a time you too shared the same morality and values I do, but; presently, you have slid into the gutter with other fallen souls seduced by the lure of Trump's brand of Populism. Take my hand and allow me to lead you back to the path of righteousness.

Your crawling days are over. get off your knees. and stop paying homage to Trump..You must learn to walk again: I will assist you in taking those first baby steps:

The REPAWT:

Please excuse my English accent but want to be clear. Which "repawt" are you referring to? I'll assume it is the "repawt " generated by the CF. Here is my response to your inane claim that the repawt indicated the US had more effective care, period: Read and run....run for your literary life for I am bringing truth and light to this thread even as the darkness and the agents working within it scatter before the might of truth's light! Heh heh heh! : BEHOLDDDDD!:


ABSTRACT

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in prior editions of Mirror, Mirror. The United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland. Since the data in this study were collected, the U.S. has made significant strides adopting health information technology and undertaking payment and delivery system reforms spurred by the Affordable Care Act. Continued implementation of the law could further encourage more affordable access and more efficient organi- zation and delivery of health care, and allow investment in preventive and population health measures that could improve the performance of the U.S. health care system.

I would never share your values, you are dishonest or very dense. I can't make it any clearer for your slow mind. When performance of a health care system is linked to variables outside of health care, but you insist on denying it in spite of your own quote from the commonwealth report, well then you are either just a liar or an idiot, your call on that one.

I am neither a liar or an idiot but, sorry, I can't defend YOUR lying and idiocy. The Commonwealth Fund and the World Health Organization's reports have spoken for me in this exchange. You OTOH have relied upon scurrilous innuendo and pettiness to deflect form the damning content of those reports. You have been so bold as to attempt to change the narrative in the reports to salvage some modicum of your eroded dignity and that of the pitiful US healthcare system.

 

[NCC1701]

Dishonest bitch, now you deem SAFE CARE the most all most important variable and throw out another meaningless report. I don't disagree with the report, you do. The report said the US had more effective care, period.

M'am, please get a hold of yourself and refrain from using profanity. I am one of the few righteous conservatives left. Perhaps once upon a time you too shared the same morality and values I do, but; presently, you have slid into the gutter with other fallen souls seduced by the lure of Trump's brand of Populism. Take my hand and allow me to lead you back to the path of righteousness.

Your crawling days are over. get off your knees. and stop paying homage to Trump..You must learn to walk again: I will assist you in taking those first baby steps:

The REPAWT:

Please excuse my English accent but want to be clear. Which "repawt" are you referring to? I'll assume it is the "repawt " generated by the CF. Here is my response to your inane claim that the repawt indicated the US had more effective care, period: Read and run....run for your literary life for I am bringing truth and light to this thread even as the darkness and the agents working within it scatter before the might of truth's light! Heh heh heh! : BEHOLDDDDD!:


ABSTRACT

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in prior editions of Mirror, Mirror. The United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland. Since the data in this study were collected, the U.S. has made significant strides adopting health information technology and undertaking payment and delivery system reforms spurred by the Affordable Care Act. Continued implementation of the law could further encourage more affordable access and more efficient organi- zation and delivery of health care, and allow investment in preventive and population health measures that could improve the performance of the U.S. health care system.

I would never share your values, you are dishonest or very dense. I can't make it any clearer for your slow mind. When performance of a health care system is linked to variables outside of health care, but you insist on denying it in spite of your own quote from the commonwealth report, well then you are either just a liar or an idiot, your call on that one.

I am neither a liar or an idiot but, sorry, I can't defend YOUR lying and idiocy. The Commonwealth Fund and the World Health Organization's reports have spoken for me in this exchange. You OTOH have relied upon scurrilous innuendo and pettiness to deflect form the damning content of those reports. You have been so bold as to attempt to change the narrative in the reports to salvage some modicum of your eroded dignity and that of the pitiful US healthcare system.

no they have not liar, you have attempted to change the conclusions to your whim and I have shown how you did that

 

[JQPublic1]

Dishonest bitch, now you deem SAFE CARE the most all most important variable and throw out another meaningless report. I don't disagree with the report, you do. The report said the US had more effective care, period.

M'am, please get a hold of yourself and refrain from using profanity. I am one of the few righteous conservatives left. Perhaps once upon a time you too shared the same morality and values I do, but; presently, you have slid into the gutter with other fallen souls seduced by the lure of Trump's brand of Populism. Take my hand and allow me to lead you back to the path of righteousness.

Your crawling days are over. get off your knees. and stop paying homage to Trump..You must learn to walk again: I will assist you in taking those first baby steps:

The REPAWT:

Please excuse my English accent but want to be clear. Which "repawt" are you referring to? I'll assume it is the "repawt " generated by the CF. Here is my response to your inane claim that the repawt indicated the US had more effective care, period: Read and run....run for your literary life for I am bringing truth and light to this thread even as the darkness and the agents working within it scatter before the might of truth's light! Heh heh heh! : BEHOLDDDDD!:


ABSTRACT

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in prior editions of Mirror, Mirror. The United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland. Since the data in this study were collected, the U.S. has made significant strides adopting health information technology and undertaking payment and delivery system reforms spurred by the Affordable Care Act. Continued implementation of the law could further encourage more affordable access and more efficient organi- zation and delivery of health care, and allow investment in preventive and population health measures that could improve the performance of the U.S. health care system.

I would never share your values, you are dishonest or very dense. I can't make it any clearer for your slow mind. When performance of a health care system is linked to variables outside of health care, but you insist on denying it in spite of your own quote from the commonwealth report, well then you are either just a liar or an idiot, your call on that one.

I am neither a liar or an idiot but, sorry, I can't defend YOUR lying and idiocy. The Commonwealth Fund and the World Health Organization's reports have spoken for me in this exchange. You OTOH have relied upon scurrilous innuendo and pettiness to deflect form the damning content of those reports. You have been so bold as to attempt to change the narrative in the reports to salvage some modicum of your eroded dignity and that of the pitiful US healthcare system.

no they have not liar, you have attempted to change the conclusions to your whim and I have shown how you did that

Aw, go get laid.... you need it... you are a frustrated lying vixen if I ever saw one! COme on back after you have gotten rid of your frustrations.

 

[NCC1701]

The fact remains any sort of socialism socialist medicine happens to be dozens of people taking out as compared to only one to a few paying in. No socialist entitlement program has worked in the history of the United States… Long-term

Don't know about the US. All I do know is that works in the three places I have lived (UK, NZ and Australia)..

It works in other places like Israel and Canada also.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

'works' means you are happy, and so what?

 

[NCC1701]

Dishonest bitch, now you deem SAFE CARE the most all most important variable and throw out another meaningless report. I don't disagree with the report, you do. The report said the US had more effective care, period.

M'am, please get a hold of yourself and refrain from using profanity. I am one of the few righteous conservatives left. Perhaps once upon a time you too shared the same morality and values I do, but; presently, you have slid into the gutter with other fallen souls seduced by the lure of Trump's brand of Populism. Take my hand and allow me to lead you back to the path of righteousness.

Your crawling days are over. get off your knees. and stop paying homage to Trump..You must learn to walk again: I will assist you in taking those first baby steps:

The REPAWT:

Please excuse my English accent but want to be clear. Which "repawt" are you referring to? I'll assume it is the "repawt " generated by the CF. Here is my response to your inane claim that the repawt indicated the US had more effective care, period: Read and run....run for your literary life for I am bringing truth and light to this thread even as the darkness and the agents working within it scatter before the might of truth's light! Heh heh heh! : BEHOLDDDDD!:


ABSTRACT

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but comparative analyses consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in prior editions of Mirror, Mirror. The United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland. Since the data in this study were collected, the U.S. has made significant strides adopting health information technology and undertaking payment and delivery system reforms spurred by the Affordable Care Act. Continued implementation of the law could further encourage more affordable access and more efficient organi- zation and delivery of health care, and allow investment in preventive and population health measures that could improve the performance of the U.S. health care system.

I would never share your values, you are dishonest or very dense. I can't make it any clearer for your slow mind. When performance of a health care system is linked to variables outside of health care, but you insist on denying it in spite of your own quote from the commonwealth report, well then you are either just a liar or an idiot, your call on that one.

I am neither a liar or an idiot but, sorry, I can't defend YOUR lying and idiocy. The Commonwealth Fund and the World Health Organization's reports have spoken for me in this exchange. You OTOH have relied upon scurrilous innuendo and pettiness to deflect form the damning content of those reports. You have been so bold as to attempt to change the narrative in the reports to salvage some modicum of your eroded dignity and that of the pitiful US healthcare system.

no they have not liar, you have attempted to change the conclusions to your whim and I have shown how you did that

Aw, go get laid.... you need it... you are a frustrated lying vixen if I ever saw one! COme on back after you have gotten rid of your frustrations.

and you have posted more than me in this thread, endless tortured logic and lying, so get a drug habit and leave the rest of society alone

 

[Dr Grump]

'works' means you are happy, and so what?

No, it means it works you bad-tempered git

 

[Cecilie1200]

Someone has to pay for something they do not want and will never use, see thats the problem with any form of socialized medicine.... in reality one size never fits all.

Idiocy.
I havent had cancer yet. If I do in the future then the NHS is there for me.

No one should be forced to pay for what "might" happen... that is no way to live.

The rest of us should not be forced to pay for it when it does happen because you were to irresponsible to plan for it. Don't conservatives constantly bleat about personal responsibility? Do you wait until you have an auto accident to gat auto insurance?

There's a difference between "You should do this" and "We're going to force you to". And since when have conservatives EVER suggested that other people should pick up the tab for someone else's bad choices?

It has nothing to do with what conservatives may or may not have said. It has to do with reality. Know what that is.? Not -alt reality. REALITY . When people don't have insurance, they don't get preventive care. They get sicker than they would have been, go to the ER-where care is very expensive-and get charity care . They go on disability. They stop paying taxes. They are no longer productive. Who the hell do you thing pays for all of that?

Ah, so FIRST you demand to know if conservatives don't "bleat" about something, and then when you're told no, it's suddenly "not about what conservatives say".

I hope you don't ever actually wonder why people view you as an ignorant lying sack.

 

[NCC1701]

'works' means you are happy, and so what?

No, it means it works you bad-tempered git

there is no universal definition of that you dumbshit, so you little jackbooted assholes deem it works if you are happy

 

[NCC1701]

"Notably, countries’ perfor- mance on these three outcomes indicators did not necessarily align with their ranks on the other dimensions of health system performance. France ranks near the bottom overall, whereas the U.K., which ranks first or second on every other dimension, ranks near the bottom of healthy lives. Unfortunately, scarce cross-nation- ally comparable data on health outcomes limit this dimension to only three indicators. However, the indica- tors that are available demonstrate the health care system to be just one of many factors, including social and economic well-being, that influence the health of a nation. "

That is quoted from the commonwealth study, which the liar above wants to change to meet his forgone conclusion, but what is really sad here is that the commonwealth authors basically were also trying to prove their forgone conclusion. They found the US ranked ahead of Sweden and France in quality of care, which is of course the most central issue to the entire debate we are having about healthcare. They then had to explain all that away by inventing 'healthy lives' which by their own admission is not a measure of healthcare alone, but contains a lot of 'social' factors outside of healthcare. How else are you going to bring the US down, and France up, if your own damned study shows the opposite of what you wanted? invent some other non healthcare factors to bring about the conclusion you really want. Bunch of dishonest fucks

 

[JQPublic1]

"Notably, countries’ perfor- mance on these three outcomes indicators did not necessarily align with their ranks on the other dimensions of health system performance. France ranks near the bottom overall, whereas the U.K., which ranks first or second on every other dimension, ranks near the bottom of healthy lives. Unfortunately, scarce cross-nation- ally comparable data on health outcomes limit this dimension to only three indicators. However, the indica- tors that are available demonstrate the health care system to be just one of many factors, including social and economic well-being, that influence the health of a nation. "

That is quoted from the commonwealth study, which the liar above wants to change to meet his forgone conclusion, but what is really sad here is that the commonwealth authors basically were also trying to prove their forgone conclusion. They found the US ranked ahead of Sweden and France in quality of care, which is of course the most central issue to the entire debate we are having about healthcare. They then had to explain all that away by inventing 'healthy lives' which by their own admission is not a measure of healthcare alone, but contains a lot of 'social' factors outside of healthcare. How else are you going to bring the US down, and France up, if your own damned study shows the opposite of what you wanted? invent some other non healthcare factors to bring about the conclusion you really want. Bunch of dishonest fucks

If you insist on making a fool of yourself, I won'tt stop you...please proceed...

 

[NCC1701]

"Notably, countries’ perfor- mance on these three outcomes indicators did not necessarily align with their ranks on the other dimensions of health system performance. France ranks near the bottom overall, whereas the U.K., which ranks first or second on every other dimension, ranks near the bottom of healthy lives. Unfortunately, scarce cross-nation- ally comparable data on health outcomes limit this dimension to only three indicators. However, the indica- tors that are available demonstrate the health care system to be just one of many factors, including social and economic well-being, that influence the health of a nation. "

That is quoted from the commonwealth study, which the liar above wants to change to meet his forgone conclusion, but what is really sad here is that the commonwealth authors basically were also trying to prove their forgone conclusion. They found the US ranked ahead of Sweden and France in quality of care, which is of course the most central issue to the entire debate we are having about healthcare. They then had to explain all that away by inventing 'healthy lives' which by their own admission is not a measure of healthcare alone, but contains a lot of 'social' factors outside of healthcare. How else are you going to bring the US down, and France up, if your own damned study shows the opposite of what you wanted? invent some other non healthcare factors to bring about the conclusion you really want. Bunch of dishonest fucks

If you insist on making a fool of yourself, I won'tt stop you...please proceed...

oh you have the power to stop me from posting? well there you delusional twat, I am quite satisfied with my post above since people able to think can understand it and can reply if they wish. I don't care what you think, you are a lying idiot

 

[Dr Grump]

there is no universal definition of that you dumbshit, so you little jackbooted assholes deem it works if you are happy

We should swap names...

 

[NCC1701]

there is no universal definition of that you dumbshit, so you little jackbooted assholes deem it works if you are happy

We should swap names...

nah, I like mine

when one gets repeatedly raped in the wallet by American socialists, when they want to constantly take away your freedom and treat you like a slave to their state, when they constantly lie about their intentions and policies, well then one gets a little touchy, you know

 

[Dr Grump]

nah, I like mine

when one gets repeatedly raped in the wallet by American socialists, when they want to constantly take away your freedom and treat you like a slave to their state, when they constantly lie about their intentions and policies, well then one gets a little touchy, you know

Trump's a socialist? Who knew...

 

[Andylusion]

You said I lack substance but then you addressed almost none of the points I made, none. Then you say that the women 'seems intelligent' but then attacked her credentials.


First she is co-founder of a company that support physicians, secondly I don't care. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in this case, she made detailed arguments that you tried to hand wave away by saying she is not doctor. Well, so are you a doctor, are you 'qualified' to comment?

I'll take a closer look at your comments but I'm not promising you anything...heh heh heh!

As for the mysterious woman you keep referring to, do you expect me to accept what she says without references or citations?

So try again, I will shorten the list and make it simpler for you. France has lower access than the US and lower quality of care than the US, but the highest outcomes according to the study and as you said. Logically then you are forced to conclude that access to quality healthcare is not needed for good outcomes, which means universal care is irrelevant. I can't parse it any simpler for you, it is logically impossible to conclude from this study that better healthcare means better outcomes as you are doing. Your own quote from that study : "However, the indicators that are available demonstrate the health care system to be just one of many factors, including social and economic well-being, that influence the health of a nation. "

So what does a rational (i.e. non-liberal person) conclude? The only logical conclusion would be that our health care system is actually better than France, but there are other factors besides health care when it comes to outcomes, so why the hell do you keep harping on health care?

Look at your chart: In the area of quality there are 4 rated items: France is ahead of the USA in the most important one which is SAFE CARE. without that one, the rest of the quality factors don't really matter. Access? France is still ahead of the USA in both categories under that title. But why are you ignoring all the rest of the field. Focusing on France gives you no advantage here when all most other countries with socialized medicine are besting that of the USA in several categories. The USA has no ranking in the 1st spot under any healthcare item. AND that is WITH Obamacare which affords more Americans access to primary healthcare. Without Obamacare the USA 's showing in each of the categories , particularly ACCESS, would be far worse.

Look Toots, I don't need you to parse anything for me. If you disagree with the CF study, you'll go absolutely bonkers over this one from the World Health Organization:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA

World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems

The woman's very last point is salient, you of course ignored it. "It may be fine to blast the U.S. system for being expensive, but to say that we are paying too much for a bad system, while assessing badness based on the system being expensive, is circular logic that should have no place in serious scientific conversation"

The whole idea you are putting forth is rather dumb, one's health and lifespan are more determined by life choices and genetics than any hospital nearby. It is not 'the goal' of a health care system to make sure you live a long life, that is my goal and not the governments.

The idea I am putting forth isn't the one you say I am putting forth. If you want to know what I am putting forth, here it comes:

Two major studies have shown that the American capitalist based health care system is not on a par with the top socialist based healthcare systems of the world. The high cost of American healthcare has some bearing in that millions of Americans can not afford access to preventative or primary health care,especially without Obamacare. However, access blocked by high cost is but one of the factors involved in the low ranking of the USA at 37. Since Canada is ranked low as well at 30. The weight of High cost can essentially be ruled out as a prime factor in the ranking but it is one of several.
This isn't my opinion but I am forming one. I am leaning towards universal healthcare for all Americans at any age.

See when you post the World Health Organization's rankings... without thinking about it... you disqualify yourself as a thoughtful debater.

Are you telling me, that you really believe that people in Dominica, get better health care than US citizens? You are crazy.

Moreover, you left off Cuba. Cuba was ranked 39th.

See now to a non-thinking individual.... they would say "See that shows how bad US health care is!".

But to a thinking individual... we would say.... huh? Cuba is just two ranks below the US? Cuba? Where buildings collapse on a routine basis? Where people cobble together junk yard parts to make rafts to get to the US? Cuba, where people go to college to get a degree, so they can be a waiter at a resort restaurant?

That Cuba has almost as good of health care, as the US? By just two ranks?

See, if you *want* to believe that socialized care is better than US care, then you just look at the WHO ranks, and say "well that supports what I already believe".

But to any rational person, we look at that and think.. wait a minute....

The truths and tales of Cuban healthcare

By the time I moved to Cuba in 1997, there were serious shortages of medicine - from simple aspirin to more badly needed drugs.

Ironically, many medicines that cannot be found at a pharmacy are easily bought on the black market. Some doctors, nurses and cleaning staff smuggle the medicine out of the hospitals in a bid to make extra cash.

Although medical attention remains free, many patients did and still do bring their doctors food, money or other gifts to get to the front of the queue or to guarantee an appointment for an X-ray, blood test or operation.

If you do not have a contact or money to pay under the table, the waiting time for all but emergency procedures can be ridiculously long.

Many Cubans complain that top-level government and Communist Party officials have access to VIP health treatment, while ordinary people must queue from dawn for a routine test, with no guarantee that the allotted numbers will not run out before it is their turn.

And while the preventative healthcare system works well for children, women over the age of 40 are being shortchanged because yearly mammograms are not offered to the population at large.

I saw many hospitals where there was often no running water, the toilets did not flush, and the risk of infections - by the hospital's own admission - was extremely high.​

Ok, so let's review.... 1997, just three years before the 2000 WHO rankings... meaning it would be during this time that the WHO was collecting it's data to make the WHO rankings.....

1. There were shortages of all medicine, all the way down to basic aspirin
2. Medications were being smuggled out by the nurses and doctors to sell illegally
3. Patients bribed doctors with food, money and other gifts just to get appointment, let alone x-rays and blood tests done
4. If you did not have bribe money, or a contact, wait times were months, if not years
5. While the elite had VIP treatment, common Cubans had to queue from dawn, and many times would still fail to be seen.
6. Hospitals and doctors had "allotted numbers" of patients they would see in a day, meaning if you were the number after that allotted number, you didn't get seen. Sucks to be you.
7. Preventative care for children existed, but for everyone else, not so much.
8. Hospitals had no running water, no toilets, and according to the hospitals own staff, infection risks were extremely high.

Did you catch all that? This is Cuba.... the Cuba that the World Health Organization ranked 39th... compared to the US at 37.

And that's the information from just this one article. There are many more things about Cuba, that are insanely bad. Most Cubans are brought to the hospital in a wheelbarrow. Most hospitals don't have an ambulance service. Cuban doctors can lose their jobs if they report that a baby died, so if the infant dies soon after birth, the doctors simply don't report it. It never happened.

A Cuban American went back to visit his mother, and snapped some photos with his phone, while in a hospital.

His parents hurt a finger, and needed an X-ray. This is the x-ray room. Ripped bed. 1960s, or 70s x-ray machine. Water damage through the ceiling, and walls.

That's "free" health care. That's 'universal government care'.

This is ranked 39th, and our system is ranked 37th? Really? That's almost on par with our system?

Now if you are rational person, you are asking yourself, how the heck did Cuba get to be almost on par with the US, on a ranking of health care?

And the answer to that, is extremely simple. Because of how they measured the quality of health care.... by not measuring the quality.

I have the WHO report on my computer, and you can verify for yourself everything I am saying. I dare you to.

The following are the percentages of the score, that made the assessment.

Health 50%

Divided into two parts
Over all average 15%
Equality 35%​

Responsiveness 25%

Divided into two parts
Over all average 12.5%
Equality 12.5%​

Fairness of Payment. 25%

Now look at that carefully.... Fairness of payment.... that has nothing to do with the quality. And as long as everyone pays the same, even if they pay nothing, and get nothing... that's fair.

So Cuba automatically get's 25% of the score.

Responsiveness Equality.... As long as it is equally responsive to everyone, even if the response is equally nothing... that's equal.... so Cuba gets 12.5% of the score.

Cuba has 37.5% of the score.

Health Equality.... as long as everyone is equally healthy or equally sick, as long as they are equal... Cuba gets 35% of the score.

Cuba has 72.5% of the score.

Now let's look at the remaining 27.5%.... first the 15% that accounts for "health".

So health is the ability of the health care system to heal cancer? no. To heal diseases? No. To do a heart by-pass? No. To do knee replacement, or hip replacement? To remove a cataract? No.

Health is exclusively 'life expectancy'. That's it. Now, we already know that Cuban doctors simply don't report infant deaths. Of course auto fatalities are rare, because no one owns a car. Suicides are not common, unless you count people dying while attempting to get to the US, which of course the government does not count. And violence in a police state is also very low.

What does any of that have to do with health care? Nothing. Which is why again, I have said over and over, and will continue to say, life expectancy is completely irrelevant to health care.

That leaves responsiveness. This one cracks me up. According to the WHO report, page 32. Again you can check everything I'm saying. Responsiveness is the following....

Respect for dignity 16.7%
Confidentiality 16.7%
Autonomy 16.7%
Prompt attention 20%
Quality of amenities 15%
Access to social support networks 10%
Choice of provider 5%

What does any of this have to do with the quality of the care? "Prompt Attention" was 1/5th of the score, which only counted for 12.5% of the total.

Respect for dignity? What good does that do, if I'm dying of cancer, and all you do is 'respect' me? Confidentiality? If I'm dying, well at least you better keep is a secret until I'm dead? Autonomy? Quality of amenities? We know Cuba didn't get high marks on that one. Most hospitals you had to bring your own blankets, and food. Heck, you had to bring your own water to flush the toilet. Choice of provider? Yeah, the choice was government. That was the only provider. They wish they had a choice. Access to support networks? Yeah, I want to hold hands with someone, more than I want healed.

Now, don't get me wrong, all those things are fine........

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ABILITY OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM TO DIAGNOSE, TREAT, AND HEAL PATIENTS?!?!?!? WHAT ABOUT THAT??!

Not one.... NOT EVEN ONE.... measured the ability of the health care system to....... HEAL...

THAT.... that right there, is why Cuba could be 39th on the list.... while average Cubans can't even get Aspirin. The entire ranking system had nothing to do with the quality of the care. They measure how socialized it was, how 'fair' it was, how equal it was, how long people live in the country. They measured everything, and anything, except how good the care was.

Like all things left-wing and socialized, you have to bend over backwards, and bend yourself into intellectual pretzels, to pretend left-wing socialist policies work.

Let me spell this out. The WHO report is 100% CRAP, from start to finish, and everything in between. It is utter and complete CRAP. And anyone who thinks otherwise..... doesn't think. That's all there is to it.

 

[JQPublic1]

Let me spell this out. The WHO report is 100% CRAP, from start to finish, and everything in between. It is utter and complete CRAP. And anyone who thinks otherwise..... doesn't think. That's all there is to it.

You are a raving FOOL! I must say you are one of the most persistent idiots I have ever had the displeasure to meet. First of all, I don't believe you ever went to Cuba in 1997 or an other year. Your credibility tanked a long time ago but it sank deeper than whale shit when you tried to shake me down over the Commonwealth Surveys (which included references to the WHO data) and then turned right around and made a counter argument based on a link that used surveys.

The dust hasn't cleared from THAT imbroglio and here you are again, braying incessantly against a reputable world renown entity such as the WHO. You ought to know that you have been written off as a clown!

 

[NCC1701]

nah, I like mine

when one gets repeatedly raped in the wallet by American socialists, when they want to constantly take away your freedom and treat you like a slave to their state, when they constantly lie about their intentions and policies, well then one gets a little touchy, you know

Trump's a socialist? Who knew...

No way is he in agreement with the American socialist left on every issue, he may very well match some but no way would they even call him a socialist.

Not here to defend Trump in toto. I examine one idea and policy at a time and think for myself, political parties and hero worship are for idiots like socialists.

 

[NCC1701]

Let me spell this out. The WHO report is 100% CRAP, from start to finish, and everything in between. It is utter and complete CRAP. And anyone who thinks otherwise..... doesn't think. That's all there is to it.

You are a raving FOOL! I must say you are one of the most persistent idiots I have ever had the displeasure to meet. First of all, I don't believe you ever went to Cuba in 1997 or an other year. Your credibility tanked a long time ago but it sank deeper than whale shit when you tried to shake me down over the Commonwealth Surveys (which included references to the WHO data) and then turned right around and made a counter argument based on a link that used surveys.

The dust hasn't cleared from THAT imbroglio and here you are again, braying incessantly against a reputable world renown entity such as the WHO. You ought to know that you have been written off as a clown!

Defending Cuban health care as better than the USA? LOL, not even the commonwealth liars would do that

You believe that using non health care related outcomes to measure health care systems is a fine idea, you area a proven complete moron.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Idiocy.
I havent had cancer yet. If I do in the future then the NHS is there for me.

No one should be forced to pay for what "might" happen... that is no way to live.

The rest of us should not be forced to pay for it when it does happen because you were to irresponsible to plan for it. Don't conservatives constantly bleat about personal responsibility? Do you wait until you have an auto accident to gat auto insurance?

There's a difference between "You should do this" and "We're going to force you to". And since when have conservatives EVER suggested that other people should pick up the tab for someone else's bad choices?

It has nothing to do with what conservatives may or may not have said. It has to do with reality. Know what that is.? Not -alt reality. REALITY . When people don't have insurance, they don't get preventive care. They get sicker than they would have been, go to the ER-where care is very expensive-and get charity care . They go on disability. They stop paying taxes. They are no longer productive. Who the hell do you thing pays for all of that?

Ah, so FIRST you demand to know if conservatives don't "bleat" about something, and then when you're told no, it's suddenly "not about what conservatives say".

I hope you don't ever actually wonder why people view you as an ignorant lying sack.

I see. You can't actually address or deal with the reality that I presented to you have to resort to an ad hominem.