Socialized medicine does not work...

[Rustic]

Tell that to the career politicians it's all about profit with a career politician...

That is true for a lot of them...

You become a career politician federally in this country you become a millionaire overnight, don't let fucking pieces of shit like Bernie Sanders fool you he's a two-faced piece of shit that should be treated as such...

 

[Rustic]

It can't work in the United States because it's been tried for decades, socialist entitlement programs bring out the absolute worst in people.

in what sense though? I mean if somebody needs a heart bypass, they need a heart bypass no?

People should take care of their own shit, and not depend on the federal government because it gives the federal government power and the federal government is all about control.

 

[Dr Grump]

You become a career politician federally in this country you become a millionaire overnight, don't let fucking pieces of shit like Bernie Sanders fool you he's a two-faced piece of shit that should be treated as such...

Yeah, but this thread isn't about that...

 

[Rustic]

You become a career politician federally in this country you become a millionaire overnight, don't let fucking pieces of shit like Bernie Sanders fool you he's a two-faced piece of shit that should be treated as such...

Yeah, but this thread isn't about that...

It is, the federal government of the United States is the most corrupt organization on the planet and has been for many, many decades. They use things like climate control and health care to control the citizens.

 

[Dr Grump]

People should take care of their own shit, and not depend on the federal government because it gives the federal government power and the federal government is all about control.

not really. I want my tax dollars to go on health. It is my insurance policy. My wife had an ankle problem. She could get it done privately for $10,000 or go on a public waiting list for 9 months. She went on the waiting list. Do I feel guilty? Nope, those public hospitals are paid for by my tax dollars. That is my insurance policy right there.

 

[jillian]

There is no way It can work in the US... there are too many parasites in society

What do you call parasites?

Me? The insurance companies are the parasites...

Millions that live in urban areas expecting something for nothing

it is not the people in urban areas (meaning black people in your useless, vestigial organ of a brain) it's the white trash in the red states.

but it's not like rightwingnuts ever met a fact they like

 

[Dr Grump]

It is, the federal government of the United States is the most corrupt organization on the planet and has been for many, many decades. They use things like climate control and health care to control the citizens.

I don't think so. You're getting into conspiracy theory territory here. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.

 

[Rustic]

People should take care of their own shit, and not depend on the federal government because it gives the federal government power and the federal government is all about control.

not really. I want my tax dollars to go on health. It is my insurance policy. My wife had an ankle problem. She could get it done privately for $10,000 or go on a public waiting list for 9 months. She went on the waiting list. Do I feel guilty? Nope, those public hospitals are paid for by my tax dollars. That is my insurance policy right there.

Here in the United States 100% of anything that goes to the federal government goes to the career politicians. I can't trust anything about the federal government because I know they are going to fuck me over.

 

[Rustic]

There is no way It can work in the US... there are too many parasites in society

What do you call parasites?

Me? The insurance companies are the parasites...

Millions that live in urban areas expecting something for nothing

it is not the people in urban areas (meaning black people in your useless, vestigial organ of a brain) it's the white trash in the red states.

but it's not like rightwingnuts ever met a fact they like

First of all I happen to be a libertarian and second I am a minority... I grew up on the Indian reservation and I would say 99.999% of most on Indian reservations are parasites because of the federal government...

 

[Rustic]

It is, the federal government of the United States is the most corrupt organization on the planet and has been for many, many decades. They use things like climate control and health care to control the citizens.

I don't think so. You're getting into conspiracy theory territory here. Doesn't interest me in the slightest.

The federal government is nothing but fraudulent, hundred plus years of proof...

 

[Andylusion]

And yet is does work in countries that have a mixture of both....hhhmmm...

Sure, if you lower the quality of care. That's how they do it. You end up with crappy care.

Or, you end up with all the rich getting private insurance, while the poor end up dying on waiting lists.

Or, you end up with the system going broke, and there are several that are in desperate situations right now.

The best system is a Capitalist system. The more we move away from that, the more we have those same problems here.

 

[Rustic]

The fact remains Socialism has never worked long term in the history of the planet, and that includes socialized medicine...

 

[Care4all]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

We are already paying for the deadbeats...in the most expensive forms of health care there is.... like thru the emergency rooms.

Why not try to find a way to help out the rest of us, on our costs?

 

[Andylusion]

It can't work in the United States because it's been tried for decades, socialist entitlement programs bring out the absolute worst in people.

in what sense though? I mean if somebody needs a heart bypass, they need a heart bypass no?

Your Knee hurts.

You could go to a local GP.
You could go to a local clinic.
You could go to an urgent care.
You could go to a hospital and make an appointment.
You could go to the ER.

Which do you do?

Well let's look at the incentives. Under a free health care system, the cost to you is equally nothing, no matter where you go.

Why would you go to a GP, when you could go to the ER, and get seen immediately, for no extra cost to you?

When Massachusetts enacted universal health care, the first thing that happened was wait times at the ER drastically increased. Nearly double the wait time of the national average.... of course the average include non-public hospitals that charge fees for usage.

This is unavoidable. This is why in many government run systems, you have no choice but to see a GP first, who must prescribe you going to a specialist, who must prescribe you going to a clinic, and so on.

It's a method of rationing the care.

Another example is, the doctor asks you how much it hurts, and you say.... 10 out of 10, so he gives you prescription for oxicodine. Does it really hurt that bad? Maybe you could deal with something less powerful?

But since the cost is the same to you, why not go for the best stuff you can?

I had a co-worker that said they made $500 a month off of selling extra oxicodine. When the doctor asked how much pain he was in... oh yeah massive pain. Of course medicaid was covering most of the cost. Great for the doctor, great for the druggies, and great for him. Bad for the country.

 

[Political Junky]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

It works in every leading country except the US, where it works in the form of Medicare. France ranks number one in the world.

 

[Andylusion]

There is no way It can work in the US... there are too many parasites in society

What do you call parasites?

Me? The insurance companies are the parasites...

Millions that live in urban areas expecting something for nothing

it is not the people in urban areas (meaning black people in your useless, vestigial organ of a brain) it's the white trash in the red states.

but it's not like rightwingnuts ever met a fact they like

IF true... so what? I don't care who is getting money from tax payers. It's bad no matter who it is.

 

[Dr Grump]

Sure, if you lower the quality of care. That's how they do it. You end up with crappy care.

Or, you end up with all the rich getting private insurance, while the poor end up dying on waiting lists.

Or, you end up with the system going broke, and there are several that are in desperate situations right now.

The best system is a Capitalist system. The more we move away from that, the more we have those same problems here.

No. My wife got great care. So did I when I broke my leg in the UK.

We have great health care in Aust and NZ. It is mainly public, but there is private too. The weird thing is, you pay for private and it doesn't even pay for the hospital visit. It's very weird and skewed towards the health industry making a profit. The UK system is okay as are most of the Scandinavian countries.

 

[Dr Grump]

Your Knee hurts.

You could go to a local GP.
You could go to a local clinic.
You could go to an urgent care.
You could go to a hospital and make an appointment.
You could go to the ER.

Which do you do?

Well let's look at the incentives. Under a free health care system, the cost to you is equally nothing, no matter where you go.

Why would you go to a GP, when you could go to the ER, and get seen immediately, for no extra cost to you?

When Massachusetts enacted universal health care, the first thing that happened was wait times at the ER drastically increased. Nearly double the wait time of the national average.... of course the average include non-public hospitals that charge fees for usage.

This is unavoidable. This is why in many government run systems, you have no choice but to see a GP first, who must prescribe you going to a specialist, who must prescribe you going to a clinic, and so on.

It's a method of rationing the care.

Another example is, the doctor asks you how much it hurts, and you say.... 10 out of 10, so he gives you prescription for oxicodine. Does it really hurt that bad? Maybe you could deal with something less powerful?

But since the cost is the same to you, why not go for the best stuff you can?

I had a co-worker that said they made $500 a month off of selling extra oxicodine. When the doctor asked how much pain he was in... oh yeah massive pain. Of course medicaid was covering most of the cost. Great for the doctor, great for the druggies, and great for him. Bad for the country.

I'm not saying it doesn't have its problems. But nowhere near the problems the US system has. I've said this before, my wife got offered two jobs - one in Aust one in the US. It wasn't even close when we looked at the health premiums we'd have to pay. I wont' even go into how litigious your system is. I can think of 14 countries off the top of my head where I'd rather get sick than the US.

 

[Dr Grump]

The fact remains Socialism has never worked long term in the history of the planet, and that includes socialized medicine...

Neither has pure capitalism. Cuba tried that under Batista. Market forces were given free range (as were he and his cronies)...

 

[Rustic]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

We are already paying for the deadbeats...in the most expensive forms of health care there is.... like thru the emergency rooms.

Why not try to find a way to help out the rest of us, on our costs?

With dozens taking out and almost nobody paying in… There's no fixing any form of socialize medicine