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That scrap of paper isn't backed by the largest economy in the world. Pretty big difference. Go ask a financial advisor if a piece of paper that you write "$1,000,000" is worth the same as a treasury obligation.No, it doesn't mean its currently insolvent. You either don't understand what the word "insolvent" means or what the word "currently" means.
No it isn't.
Your state or local government is free to provide you a substitute program. The teachers into Louisiana pay into the states retirement fund - not SS. The entire city of Galveston, TX, also has opted out.
I know what insolvent means. I also qualified my statement by underscoring what has to happen in order to make it solvent. This is not mere rhetoric I am espousing. link
Selling off treasury bonds cannot solve the problem of tax receipt short falls indefinitely. Right now SS has approximately .73 cents for every obligated 1.00. It is making that up on the backs of younger workers.
SS is not an actual fund- it is an accounting device- There is no actual money in SS, merely IOU's. link
It's like writing "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper, stuffing it in a jar and then proclaiming that you have a $1,000,000 retirement fund.
SS is not a ponzi scheme and bripat knows not of what he writes.
It's a Ponzi scheme. Only servile, brain damage drones don't understand that.
By your definition all insurance products are Ponzi schemes. In fact - all investments are.
They set the retirement age at 65 when the average lifespan was 63. It was a pnonzi scheme from the very beginning.
That scrap of paper isn't backed by the largest economy in the world. Pretty big difference. Go ask a financial advisor if a piece of paper that you write "$1,000,000" is worth the same as a treasury obligation.I know what insolvent means. I also qualified my statement by underscoring what has to happen in order to make it solvent. This is not mere rhetoric I am espousing. link
Selling off treasury bonds cannot solve the problem of tax receipt short falls indefinitely. Right now SS has approximately .73 cents for every obligated 1.00. It is making that up on the backs of younger workers.
SS is not an actual fund- it is an accounting device- There is no actual money in SS, merely IOU's. link
It's like writing "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper, stuffing it in a jar and then proclaiming that you have a $1,000,000 retirement fund.
It's a Ponzi scheme. Only servile, brain damage drones don't understand that.
By your definition all insurance products are Ponzi schemes. In fact - all investments are.
Good Lord.. really? Insurance products aren't cutting checks for everything and nothing to people who have never paid them a dime.
That scrap of paper isn't backed by the largest economy in the world. Pretty big difference. Go ask a financial advisor if a piece of paper that you write "$1,000,000" is worth the same as a treasury obligation.It's like writing "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper, stuffing it in a jar and then proclaiming that you have a $1,000,000 retirement fund.
I don't need to... a country that borrows more and more and more every year to finance social engineering schemes and war, and already owes probably close to $100 TRILLION in debt and unfunded obligations is broke.
That scrap of paper isn't backed by the largest economy in the world. Pretty big difference. Go ask a financial advisor if a piece of paper that you write "$1,000,000" is worth the same as a treasury obligation.It's like writing "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper, stuffing it in a jar and then proclaiming that you have a $1,000,000 retirement fund.
You can make 1 homeowner's insurance payment and if your house burns down the next day you get 50-100 times that insurance payment back.
Or you could make 360 homeowner's payments and never see a dime.
So Homeowner's insurance must be a Ponzi scheme by your definition.
Do you know how insurance companies pay claims? Out of the income stream of folks paying premiums. That's right. a PONZI scheme. Wanna know how they stockpile money for when they have to pay more claims than they can afford? Often - they put it in TREASURIES. In fact insurance companies presently have 700 billion in US Treasuries.
By your definition all insurance products are Ponzi schemes. In fact - all investments are.
Good Lord.. really? Insurance products aren't cutting checks for everything and nothing to people who have never paid them a dime.
OASI and DI only go to folks who have paid into it. SSI is for folks who haven't paid in, and that's funded by the general fund, not FICA taxes.
You can make 1 homeowner's insurance payment and if your house burns down the next day you get 50-100 times that insurance payment back.
Or you could make 360 homeowner's payments and never see a dime.
So Homeowner's insurance must be a Ponzi scheme by your definition.
Do you know how insurance companies pay claims? Out of the income stream of folks paying premiums. That's right. a PONZI scheme. Wanna know how they stockpile money for when they have to pay more claims than they can afford? Often - they put it in TREASURIES. In fact insurance companies presently have 700 billion in US Treasuries.
I don't think you know what solvent means.OK then - I guess its the word "currently" you don't understand.
All Social Security benefits are paid by the workers - that's the way its always been and always will be.
U.S. Treasury obligations are the safest dollar denominated asset available other than straight up hard currency. Hard currency doesn't earn interest though.
So while its not "actual money" - neither is most of the money deposited in your savings account, either. All that money is handed out and replaced by IOU's, too. In fact - that's how banking is done.
You are right that it is an accounting device, though, keeps us from having to adjust the FICA tax every fucking year.
To pretend SS is solvent as it is currently projecting funding is irresponsible.
SS was not set up to be, nor is it supposed to be, a bank- that congress began acting as if it were one is all the more reason to rethink its usefulness. The idea that Treasury bonds are safe was not my point. The point is that T-bills are not able to earn enough rate of return to sustain SS as it is currently funded (see I also know how to use the word currently)because,
Social Security is mostly sustained by revenues from FICA taxation - not interest on treasury obligations.
these T-bills are not used for SS alone, meaning, that it's all a shell game. (since you object to ponzi scheme)
Meaning bla bla bla.... you don't know what the fuck you're even talking about.
That scrap of paper isn't backed by the largest economy in the world. Pretty big difference. Go ask a financial advisor if a piece of paper that you write "$1,000,000" is worth the same as a treasury obligation.It's like writing "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper, stuffing it in a jar and then proclaiming that you have a $1,000,000 retirement fund.
If Bill Gates wrote "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper and stuffed it in a jar, it would still be worthless.
A Treasury obligation is worth something to a private individual, because the government has to pay it. It's worth nothing to the government. If I write " I owe Joe Bloe $1,000,000" on a piece of payer and sign it, that may be worth something to Joe Bloe, depending on my ability to pay, but it's worth nothing to me.
You can make 1 homeowner's insurance payment and if your house burns down the next day you get 50-100 times that insurance payment back.
Or you could make 360 homeowner's payments and never see a dime.
So Homeowner's insurance must be a Ponzi scheme by your definition.
Do you know how insurance companies pay claims? Out of the income stream of folks paying premiums. That's right. a PONZI scheme. Wanna know how they stockpile money for when they have to pay more claims than they can afford? Often - they put it in TREASURIES. In fact insurance companies presently have 700 billion in US Treasuries.
If the insurance company does not invest your funds and therefore has no money to pay when you make a claim, then it is a Ponzi scheme.
Do you hear what I am saying at all? THE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE CLAIMS OF OTHER CLIENTS WITH YOUR PREMIUMS! They don't take your premiums and stick them in a lockbox for a rainy day ya fool! Sure, if they have extra left over after paying claims with your premium, they will sock it away - but to pay the claims of anyone as they are needed, not just yours in particular! They frequently also have insurance themselves - reinsurance - so that if they are hit by lots and lots of claims all at once and don't have the funds to pay - the claims are covered.
I don't think you know what solvent means.To pretend SS is solvent as it is currently projecting funding is irresponsible.
Social Security is mostly sustained by revenues from FICA taxation - not interest on treasury obligations.
these T-bills are not used for SS alone, meaning, that it's all a shell game. (since you object to ponzi scheme)
Meaning bla bla bla.... you don't know what the fuck you're even talking about.
LOL...I don't know WTF I am talking about? Get a clue dude!
SS is a tax- TRUE.
SS is funded by FICA taxes- FALSE
SS is collected through FICA taxes- TRUE
FICA taxes are only used to pay SS benefits- FALSE
FICA taxes are used to fund numerous obligations- TRUE
Back to square one. SS is not a fund it is an accounting instrument. Right now SS is insolvent. This claim is valid, IF, nothing is done to increase SS revenues-at this date nothing has been done. Revenues for SS come from current T-bills and younger workers. T-bills purchased with any remaining receipts, are nothing more then notes the Treasury department uses, to fund numerous liabilities, including SS.
SS is currently taking in less receipts then liabilities and wholly dependent on cashing in T-bills to balance the sheets... any economic crisis can harm this very tenuous accounting. What you call a surplus is all smoke and mirrors. The government is obligated to pay back what it has taken...but at what cost?
The idea that we can continue to raise taxes and extend retirement years, is absurd. SS is not a good investment for retirement. It ought to be reformed and be an option for the in-betweener's and a completely different animal for those under 40.
For the SS is not a Ponzi scheme crowd.
One, a Ponzi scheme collects money from new investors and uses it to pay previous investorsminus a fee. But Social Security collects money from new investors, uses some of it to pay previous investors, and spends the surplus on programs for politically favored groupsminus the cost of supporting a massive bureaucracy. Over the years, trillions of dollars have been spent on these groups and bureaucrats. Two, participation in Ponzi schemes is voluntary. Not so with Social Security. The government automatically withholds payroll taxes and invests them for you.
Three: When a Ponzi scheme cant con new investors in sufficient numbers to pay the previous investors, it collapses. But when Social Security runs low on investorsalso called poor working stiffsit raises taxes.
Social Security is Not a Ponzi Scheme, Mr. Perry - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
If Social Security is a Ponzi scheme then so is any insurance product.
If Bill Gates wrote "I Owe Me $1,000,000" on a scrap of paper and stuffed it in a jar, it would still be worthless.
It wouldn't if he sold it to someone.
A Treasury obligation is worth something to a private individual, because the government has to pay it. It's worth nothing to the government. If I write " I owe Joe Bloe $1,000,000" on a piece of payer and sign it, that may be worth something to Joe Bloe, depending on my ability to pay, but it's worth nothing to me.
Its not the same. The SS Trust fund represents an obligation of the United States Government to the beneficiaries of Social Security. The monies in the fund are owed to the beneficiaries - not the government - the Social Security Administration merely administers the funds. If the Treasury refuses to pay any of those obligations its in default just like any other debt.
A closer analogy would be a corporation which funds its pension plan with company bonds.
The securities in that pension fund represent an obligation of the corporation to its employees - not an obligation of the company to itself.
The company administers the plan, but the employees are the beneficiaries. If they fail to pay the bonds in the pension plan as they come due, investors in their other bond issues will penalize them severely and their credit rating will suffer.
Don't think I've heard of companies funding their pension plans with company bonds - but they often do it with stock.
Any and all forms of retirement only work if their are sufficient workers to retirees. Unless you're literally stockpiling food and other goods that you will need in retirement, whatever your retirement is, be it social security, bonds, stocks, a friggin tree farm - requires that the goods you need be produced by the economy pretty close to the time you'll actually need them.Social Security is a Pyramid scheme. They take from everyone to pay everyone but it only works if you have more workers than retirees.
That's why it won't work for the baby boomers. We've reached the point of stagnation. No new jobs but lots of new people retiring. They set the retirement age at 65 originally hoping not to pay out. They started borrowing from the fund the minute it was implemented.
An insurance policy represents a financial obligation of the insurance company to you. If you have a policy - its backed by nothing but that companies promise to pay.I don't know any insurance companies that borrow their own money for their own expenses and then put in an IOU. That's what the treasury bonds are, IOUs from America.
For the SS is not a Ponzi scheme crowd.
