So will we finally get Socialized Medicine?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Neubarth, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. Neubarth
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    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

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    As a Neo Fascist and the founder of the American Growth Party, I firmy believe that one of the major roles of the government Is to provide a well trained, well educated and healthy workforce for American Industry.

    That is right, when you get conservative enough you can see the need for Government to provide the health coverage that we previously have burdened business with.

    Under our old system, underwriting health care for the worker and his family has cost American Industry heavily. These medical expenses add to product price and make most of our products more expensive in the world market place. We have to compete with other companies around the world that do not have to pay for their employee's health care.

    It is time to take that burden off of American Industry so we can have full employment in this country.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  2. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Where would that be in the Constitution?
     
  3. Neubarth
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    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

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    Taint!
     
  4. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    You're right, but for the wrong reason. From the conservative practical side of things it may make more sense to unburden industrty. One of my main issues with that is cheaper health care most definately does not equate to quality health care. That is a trade off that will need to be examined. Really your argumebnt is about flaws in the system which I think should be looked at being corrected. Work toward finding other solutions before are wholly enifficent and wasteful government gets involved.

    Socialized medicine makes very little sense from the ideological perspective of conservativism because part of conservatisism is self accountability and personal responsibility and socialized medicine in a nutshell says someone else is more responsible for your health then you yourself.
     
  5. Amanda
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    Amanda Calm as a Hindu cow

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    I'm conservative and I don't oppose socialized medicine. I think everyone should be taken care of, human life is important.
     
  6. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    That's not very nice, it was a simple question.
     
  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Actually, that's about the best reason, in this economic system we have, that one can think of to fully socialize medicine.

    We ALL understand the problems that come from socializing medicine, of course.

    Not the least of of is which that the HC providers might object to it if they can't make very healthy salaries.

    Now the question comes to us should we FULLY socialize medicine, what number of the current practicioners of HC will elect to vote against that move with their feet.

    And the question which follows from that prsumption is do we really need them, and if so, how much do we need them?

    I am of the opion that if we had the time, we could create a system whereby we paid for people's training, gave them a very good quality of life (in comparison to most other workers I mean, not as good as most of them enjoy now) and still provide adaquate HC for people, too.

    But that plan is a TWENTY YEAR plan, and the transition period is fraught with hardship for all of us.

    Perhaps single payer univsersal HC insurance is the transition, but I honestly think that that system will bankrupt the nation before we can migrate to a fully socialised HC system.
     
  8. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    First of all, the idea that universal healthcare is free is completely off base. The fact is that everyone pays for it, which is something that doesn't happen with our current system. Under our current system, only those who choose to pay for it, either as a company benefit or by purchasing a private policy, pay for it. Those who do not have insurance coverage get free health care and those of us who do have health insurance pay for those who don't. That is just one of the reasons that we pay double what people throughout the rest of the world pay.

    In countries where they have universal healthcare, everyone contributes something. In fact, even foreign tourists help pay for those nation's healthcare. Also, these systems of healthcare are not weighted by age as they are with our private system. One of the reasons companies are anxious to rid themselves of older workers in the US is that their health insurance rates increase based on the average age of their employees. This is the main reason it is so difficult for someone over the age of 50 to find employment.

    Last of all, this idea that our quality of care is so much better than countries with universal healthcare is absolute nonsense. All you need to do is look at life expectancy rates. Ours is below almost every other country with universal healthcare.

    And here is the kicker. With universal healthcare, the idea to make someone healthy again, as soon as possible, is the goal, because a healthy person reduces the cost of healthcare. With our system, doctors and hospitals compete for more and more business. It is the way they make money; the more the merrier. So keeping someone sick is beneficial to doctors and hospitals. I'm not saying every doctor and hospital tries to keep people sick, but they will look for any possible thing they can to charge for. In many cases, they run one unnecessary test after another to pad their bills. Healthcare is one business where saving the patient money is not the way to increase one's business. Therefore, the idea of competition does not reduce costs as it does in other markets of a free society.
     
  9. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    I read an article a short while back that discussed the movement of American doctors to Canada. Many American doctors are choosing to move their practices to Canada because there they can concentrate on being doctors. They know how much they will make, and they don't constantly have to spend their time fighting with the insurance companies to collect for their services. It makes for a better quality of life for those that choose this path. That is not to say that all doctors are leaving the US because of our current system or even that the majority want to see a change in that direction. However, it does make one think about it.
     
  10. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    Then why would you leave it in the hands of the government? That seems down right oxymoronical. Government does nothing "well". It does some things passably and most things it makes a horrific mess of. So if human life is important, why would you doom it to government ineptitude?
     
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