So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

There will no longer be any off topic conversations.

I see how it works! You can claim that Republicans have ruined your State with their policies...but when I ask something as simple as what State that would be...you take "the 5th"? You get more pathetic by the day!

No. You have been told a number of times to stick to the topic. You don't want to talk about the topic because it shuts up your attempt to deny the existence of white racism, blame blacks for all of the problems we face like we did them on our own and yo can't face the damage it has caused and continues to cause. So either address the issues presented or leave.

I'm asking a question about something YOU stated in one of your posts, you blow hard! Do you for some reason think you can make allegations and then choose not to address them because you deem them to be "off topic"? If it was off topic then why did you post it in the first place? Duh?

I made no allegation. I stated a fact. I answered your question. It's time to discuss the thread topic. Because I am not telling you where I live. I haven't asked you for that, I don't want to know that either so either discuss the topic or leave.

 

[IM2]

Now since we have whites talking about what they have paid for, lets set the record straight. African Americans have less wealth than whites by a large margin and there are many reasons for this all related to white racism. However the one I will be showing tonight is the discriminatory manner in which property was assessed in the black community by white assessors.

White tax assessors used different percentages in assessing property in black communities. By doing so they extracted excessive taxes from African Americans. City governments over assessed properties in black communities while underassessing them in white ones. Now understand that this assessed value is not going to be the actual market value of the property. This was found in Albany, Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, Norfolk and Ft. Worth just to name a few places..

In a 1973 study of10 large US cities HUD found a systemic pattern of overassessment in African American communities and an underassessment in white ones. The study showed that a mostly white neighborhood in Baltimore was one ninth that of a black community in Baltimore. In Philadelphia the tax burden in white south Philly was one sixth of that in the black community in North Philly. In Chicago, the white neighborhood of Norwood paid one half of what blacks did in Woodlawn, yet the Department of Justice did nothing.

So what we are seeing is that in OUR LIFETIMES blacks were over taxed and did not get the services back in return while whites paid less taxes for property and have received all proper services, community development, as well as school funding. So much for the tales of whitey paying for us.

Source- "The Color of Law", pgs. 168-171

 

[Redcurtain]

Slavery started in Africa not America.. facts

 

[Redcurtain]

Now since we have whites talking about what they have paid for, lets set the record straight. African Americans have less wealth than whites by a large margin and there are many reasons for this all related to white racism. However the one I will be showing tonight is the discriminatory manner in which property was assessed in the black community by white assessors.

White tax assessors used different percentages in assessing property in black communities. By doing so they extracted excessive taxes from African Americans. City governments over assessed properties in black communities while underassessing them in white ones. Now understand that this assessed value is not going to be the actual market value of the property. This was found in Albany, Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, Norfolk and Ft. Worth just to name a few places..

In a 1973 study of10 large US cities HUD found a systemic pattern of overassessment in African American communities and an underassessment in white ones. The study showed that a mostly white neighborhood in Baltimore was one ninth that of a black community in Baltimore. In Philadelphia the tax burden in white south Philly was one sixth of that in the black community in North Philly. In Chicago, the white neighborhood of Norwood paid one half of what blacks did in Woodlawn, yet the Department of Justice did nothing.

So what we are seeing is that in OUR LIFETIMES blacks were over taxed and did not get the services back in return while whites paid less taxes for property and have received all proper services, community development, as well as school funding. So much for the tales of whitey paying for us.

Source- "The Color of Law", pgs. 168-171

Africa started slavery , America and Americans ended it, why are you attacking us? Why not ask Africa?

 

[IM2]

Slavery started in Africa not America.. facts

The thread is about what happened after slavery was made legal in America and ended.

 

[Redcurtain]

Slavery started in Africa not America.. facts

The thread is about what happened after slavery was made legal in America and ended.

Blacks stayed in America and didn’t want to return to fly infested Africa, they became very successful under republican culture, and have quickly declined under democrat leadership

 

[IM2]

Now since we have whites talking about what they have paid for, lets set the record straight. African Americans have less wealth than whites by a large margin and there are many reasons for this all related to white racism. However the one I will be showing tonight is the discriminatory manner in which property was assessed in the black community by white assessors.

White tax assessors used different percentages in assessing property in black communities. By doing so they extracted excessive taxes from African Americans. City governments over assessed properties in black communities while underassessing them in white ones. Now understand that this assessed value is not going to be the actual market value of the property. This was found in Albany, Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, Norfolk and Ft. Worth just to name a few places..

In a 1973 study of10 large US cities HUD found a systemic pattern of overassessment in African American communities and an underassessment in white ones. The study showed that a mostly white neighborhood in Baltimore was one ninth that of a black community in Baltimore. In Philadelphia the tax burden in white south Philly was one sixth of that in the black community in North Philly. In Chicago, the white neighborhood of Norwood paid one half of what blacks did in Woodlawn, yet the Department of Justice did nothing.

So what we are seeing is that in OUR LIFETIMES blacks were over taxed and did not get the services back in return while whites paid less taxes for property and have received all proper services, community development, as well as school funding. So much for the tales of whitey paying for us.

Source- "The Color of Law", pgs. 168-171

Africa started slavery , America and Americans ended it, why are you attacking us? Why not ask Africa?

This thread is not about slavery. Africans did not make the laws in this country. Furthermore Americans did not really end it.

When it is said we talk about a history of racist laws and policy many do not understand the full extent of what is meant. According to the 13th Amendment, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, nor any place subject to their jurisdiction. “I think people really need to understand the impact of the underlined words. After emancipation, Blacks were arrested, tried, found guilty and sent to prison for crimes such as vagrancy, cussing in front of whites, jaywalking and other minor or non offenses for whites. There has been no amendment to change this part of the 13th Amendment meaning that in reality slavery could still exist in America today. After slavery ended:

• Employment was required of all freedmen; violators faced vagrancy charges
• Freedmen could not assemble without the presence of a white person
• Freedmen were assumed to be agricultural workers and their duties and hours were tightly regulated
• Freedmen were not to be taught to read or write
• Public facilities were segregated
• Violators of these laws were subject to being whipped or branded.

Because of this, blacks could be returned to slavery and thousands were. This was done by a process called convict leasing.

That wording is still written in the constitution and has not been amended. Additionally the EP only freed slaves held by the seceding states. So you're off topic to start with and you're wrong at that.

So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

Is the thread topic.

 

[IM2]

Slavery started in Africa not America.. facts

The thread is about what happened after slavery was made legal in America and ended.

Blacks stayed in America and didn’t want to return to fly infested Africa, they became very successful under republican culture, and have quickly declined under democrat leadership

That did not happen.

 

[IM2]

Slavery started in Africa not America.. facts

The thread is about what happened after slavery was made legal in America and ended.

Blacks stayed in America and didn’t want to return to fly infested Africa, they became very successful under republican culture, and have quickly declined under democrat leadership

After slavery, blacks were being killed by whites with no crimes charged while the Supreme Court basically repealed the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments with a series of rulings. Due the consistent state and federally protected barbaric acts by whites, southern blacks felt they had to go north. When blacks started moving north, southern business and government leaders enacted laws in order to stop free people from going where they could earn a decent living. But even under the threat of jail or death, millions of blacks headed north where they felt they'd be treated right.

As blacks went north they found that the only difference between a southern white and a northern one was geography. When blacks went north, so did lynchings. The violence is recorded as race riots, but that's disingenuous considering what happened. The reality is there were a series of massacres of blacks by whites in these years due to the northern migration of blacks trying to escape the conditions they had to endure in the south. Historians call what happened riots in the general “American” tradition of trying to reduce the seriousness of the atrocities.

The May and July East St. Louis massacres in 1917 caused the estimated deaths of 250 African Americans. Another 6,000 blacks were left homeless. These were labor and race related as whites felt threatened by the blacks migrating from the south. The damage caused by the rioting and vandalism cost the equivalent of 7.9 million in todays dollars. These massacres are said to be some of the worst “race riots” in the history of America.

The Chicago massacre of 1919 was another conflict started by white Americans against blacks. It began on Chicago’s South Side and lasted approximately 1 week beginning on July 27, and ending on August 3, 1919. Thirty-eight people died, both black and white. Over 500 people were injured, the majority of which were black. An estimated 1,000 to 2,000 people lost their homes with the majority again being black. This was one of over 20 riots in what was called the "Red Summer" of 1919 This massacre had it all, one full week of arson, looting and murder in what is considered one of the worst “race riots” in Illinois history.

The Omaha Race Riot occurred on September 28–29, 1919. One cause of this riot were whites feeling economic anxiety because of the increasing number of blacks escaping the south who were trying to find work. Weeks before this riot, federal investigators were warning that a conflict was imminent between black and white workers in Omaha. The animosity appears to have begun in 1917 when management at the stockyards hired blacks as strikebreakers. Nobody likes a strikebreaker, so add that to the reasons whites could give themselves for imposing violence on blacks. Once again, we see that it is the Irish who were the ringleaders in the oppression of blacks. As in Chicago, the Irish had established their power as they were the first immigrants in Omaha and used their political power to maintain an advantage.

Omaha at that time had been controlled by a political boss named Thomas Dennison. To be blunt, Dennison was a crook. He controlled Omaha for 18 years before the city elected a non-Dennison flunky for mayor named Edward Parsons Smith. Dennison and his buddies did not like that. Dennison and his friends then race baited the people of Omaha and incited the Omaha Riots.

Another cause of this riot was the accusation of a black man for the rape of a white woman. These two things, economic anxiety and claims of black male sexual aggression, have been the general standard for white violence against blacks throughout American history. The lynching of Will Brown was started by reports in local media about the alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman named Agnes Loebeck on September 25, 1919. The following day the police arrested Brown as a suspect. Loebeck identified Brown as her rapist but subsequent reports by the Omaha Police and the United States Army show she had not made a positive identification. There was an attempt to lynch Brown on the day of his arrest, but it failed.

The Omaha Bee publicized the incident as one of a series of alleged attacks on white women by black men. The newspaper published a series of articles alleging incidents of black upheavals. The Bee was controlled by a Dennison ally, Thomas Rosewater, who also was opposed to the administration of Mayor Edward Smith. “After citizens finally elected a non-Dennison man, one Edward Parsons Smith, as mayor in 1918, Dennison henchmen were accused of putting on blackface, assaulting women, and then stirring up crowds, leading to the lynching of black man Will Brown and the near-lynching of Mayor Smith.” Rosewaters paper highlighted the Dennison made blackface incidents of criminality to embarrass the new administration. The Omaha Police even caught one of Dennisons men wearing the blackface that night, but in another case of Schultzism, Dennison nor any of his associates were charged or convicted of a crime. Will Brown was lynched, shot up after he was dead, dragged through the streets of Omaha and set on fire. He had committed no crime.

Again, economic anxiety and claims of black male sexual aggression, have been the general standard for white violence against blacks throughout American history. On the evening of Saturday July 19, 1919, In a downtown Washington D.C. bar, a group of white veterans started a rumor about a black man suspected by the D.C, Police Department of sexually assaulting a white woman. The victim happened to be the wife of a Navy man. This rumor made it’s ways through the various downtown Washington D.C. establishments.

So later that night, a mob of white veterans headed to a predominantly black neighborhood carrying clubs, lead pipes, and other weapons. Those veterans brutally beat all the blacks they found. They took blacks out of their cars or off the sidewalks and beat them for no reason. Where were the police? I think they had donut shops back then, but I am not sure.

On Sunday, July 20, the violence continued because the Metropolitan Police Department failed to stop it. Blacks were getting beaten on the streets of Washington and even in front of the White House. The race riot in Washington, D.C. lasted four days and was more accurately described as a “race war.” A race war in our nations capital.

These are but 4 of the "riots" that took place during the “Red Summer” of 1919. The massacres did not end there. One of the worst acts of domestic terrorism in American history happened in two days of American history beginning on May 31st, 1921 in Tulsa Oklahoma. The Tulsa Massacre. One may as well say this was an act of war waged on the black citizens of Tulsa Oklahoma by white citizens. I say this because not only were blacks attacked on the ground they were attacked by air. Whites in private planes flew over the black community shooting down on blacks and firebombing black homes and businesses.

“I could see planes circling in mid-air. They grew in number and hummed, darted and dipped low. I could hear something like hail falling upon the top of my office building. Down East Archer, I saw the old Mid-Way hotel on fire, burning from its top, and then another and another and another building began to burn from their top,”

B.C. Franklin​

The excuse by city law enforcement officials was that the planes were reconnaissance used to protect against a Negro uprising. Still today, an accurate accounting of the number of dead varies. More than 6,000 people were either admitted to hospitals or sent to other large facilities for care. The bombings and ground attacks destroyed 35 city blocks of Tulsa, resulting in damages that equalled over 32 million dollars in today’s money. More than 10,000 blacks were left homeless.

This and other acts of terrorism have gone long ignored in understanding the brutality and long-lasting effects of these acts upon blacks in America to this very moment. For years prosperous blacks were terrorized, and black communities destroyed by mobs of angry whites who felt they were losing out because blacks had acquired the same things whites had. Some of these communities were not rebuilt. Ignored was the fact that blacks worked hard to get what they had, but that didn’t matter because blacks were to always be lesser than whites and that was to be accomplished by any means necessary. This has been a consistent attitude by a portion of the white community throughout American history and that includes right now.

Blacks peacefully moved north in order to get the same thing white immigrants had and this is just some of what happened. White immigrants are the ones who committed the violence against blacks. White immigrants destroyed thriving black communities. The same white immigrants whose descendants will tell you today how they are not responsible because their ancestors did not own slaves.

 

[IM2]

None of our white experts on black folks want to discuss events after slavery that has allowed them the advantages they have today. They want to keep arguing about slavery so then can make excuses to deny the reality of how things have gone. This is always the case when we talk about discussing what happened after slavery.

 

[IM2]

"Both the Nixon and Reagan administratons, with the support of the Burger and Rehnquist supreme courts executed two significant tasks to crush the promise embedded in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The first was to redefine what the movement was really "about" with centuries of oppression and brutality reduced to the harmless symbolism of a bus seat and water fountain."

“The second key maneuver, which flowed naturally from the first, was to redefine racism itself. Confronted with civil rights headlines depicting unflattering portrayals of KKK rallies and jackbooted sheriffs, white authority transformed those damning images of white supremacy into the sole definition of racism. This simple but wickedly brilliant conceptual and linguistic shift served multiple purposes. First and foremost, it was conscience soothing. The whittling down of racism to sheet-wearing goons allowed a cloud of racial innocence to cover many whites who, although 'resentful of black progress' and determined to ensure that racial inequality remained untouched, could see and project themselves as the 'kind of upstanding white citizen(s)' who were 'positively outraged at the tactics of the Ku Klux Klan". The focus on the Klan also helped to designate racism as an individual aberration rather than something systemic, institutional and pervasive.”

― Carol Anderson, White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide

 

[IM2]

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

This thread is specifically about what the government of these united states did to blacks after the years of slavery up until right now.

We're back to this same issue. I do not question the truth of how criminally unfair black folks were treated for 100 years after slavery, and more. You keep stating it, IM2, but you don't seem to accept it as the truth.

I know we have a government by, of, and for, the people, so it was the people who did this to black folks, but they were able to do so via government, why?

Again, we're back to the same question.

What is the purpose of government?

Can we all agree on these points:

• all men (human beings) are created equal
• they are endowed with certain unalienable rights
• governments are instituted among them to secure those rights
• governments derive their power from the consent of the governed

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

View attachment 336283​

I have a few issues with that "White Supremacy" pyramid. Maybe we need to agree on a much clearer definition of white supremacy.

Without a clearer definition, I fail to see how these significantly relate to white supremacy:

• Paternalism
• English-only initiatives
• But, what about me
• Blaming the victim
• "bootstrap" theory

We can discuss these one at a time.

Paternalism is defined as the action that limits a person's or group's liberty or autonomy and is intended to promote their own good. Kind of like what is happening now with COVID-19. So, if paternalism is white supremacy, then the whole COVID-19 shutdown is an act of white supremacy that needs to end immediately.

English-Only Initiatives characterized as white supremacy is highly flawed, loaded with logical leaps, and unwarranted assumptions. These initiatives almost exclusively operate within our immigration system and policies. A nation has a fundamental interest in its people being able to effectively communicate. There are many white people from many different parts of the world who do not speak English. To characterize English-Only Initiatives as "covert white supremacy" is nothing more than an OVERT attempt to favor a certain type of person or persons over others (mainly Mexicans, who want to retake territory lost in wars with Texas and the U.S. Yes, we know their agenda. They are not fooling anyone).

But, what about me characterized as "covert white supremacy" is a bit disingenuous and hypocritical. EVERYBODY is constantly screaming "what about me." The movement for black reparations is a "what about me" cry (Native Americans get paid but what about me). If we're going to characterize redress of grievances (what about me) a white supremacy, we may as well characterize EVERYTHING as such.

Blaming the victim is certainly not limited to white supremacy, although I can see your point on that one.

And finally, "Bootstrap" Theory. I have been suspicious for a long time that the entire fight against "racism" and/or "white supremacy" is nothing more than another tool in the toolbox of communist. They are using the plight of black folks to sell their bullshit and push their agenda. THIS SHIT CONFIRMS IT. Humans are competitors. We live in a civilized fashion because long ago, our ancestors gained the understanding that they were all more likely to survive if they formed systems of co-existence and non-violent dispute resolution. Society is a truce between humans who would otherwise be constantly at war with each other. Anyone who doubts me, just look at how Native Americans lived in relation to each other for at least 10,000 years. Why is this relevant?

The exceptional hunter who lived 10,000 years ago would have been forced to protect his kills from other humans who want to raid and take his meat for themselves. Thus, a constant state of war. In the truce know as "society," such action is deemed "illegal" because it is breaking the truce and enforced it with a ruling institution (government). Raiding humans were forced to fend for themselves and not rely on raiding the exceptional hunter for their survival. Eventually, the raiding humans figured out a way to raid the exceptional hunter WITHOUT ACTUALLY breaking the truce. They now use GOVERNMENT to raid on their behalf.

"Bootstrap" Theory, as it is called, is notion that one can work hard and take personal responsibility to climb the social and economic ladder. Critics of that theory, to a single person, believe that those pulling themselves up by their bootstraps can ONLY do so if government steals all means of production and distribution from others on their behalf. A/K/A SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM.

The other points have at least some merit.

.

 

[basquebromance]

nowadays, a black northern conservative is more comfortable expressing his views with a white southern conservative

that's just the way it is, my friends

 

[IM2]

This thread is specifically about what the government of these united states did to blacks after the years of slavery up until right now.

We're back to this same issue. I do not question the truth of how criminally unfair black folks were treated for 100 years after slavery, and more. You keep stating it, IM2, but you don't seem to accept it as the truth.

I know we have a government by, of, and for, the people, so it was the people who did this to black folks, but they were able to do so via government, why?

Again, we're back to the same question.

What is the purpose of government?

Can we all agree on these points:

• all men (human beings) are created equal
• they are endowed with certain unalienable rights
• governments are instituted among them to secure those rights
• governments derive their power from the consent of the governed

Limited government was what created states rights and states rights allowed states to ignore constitutional amendments. We are not arguing this from your perspective. And if I am stating that government did this, it is apparent that I accepted that as truth.

As for your argument about the pyramid, it is expected that a white person will argue about the issues presented below the covert line. Paternalistic racism is particularly related to Blacks or African Americans and Whites in the United States. It implies that White people have the right to interfere with the lives of Black people for their own good. We see this consistently from whites here relative to discussions of race. Covid19 is a virus that is shown to kill people so the lockdown is not paternalism when it is known that a person can die and the thinking is protection from that death.

The things you argue are obvious examples of white supremacy. Your argument always comes down to, "What about me?" Drop that argument and start looking at this situation from a macro view because the constitution was about "We the people", not "I the person". Reparations are about the oppression of we, not what about me. Now tell me bootney, why do you whites pay native americans reparations every year for things you were not alive to do, but you try this sorry ass argument when blacks ask for reparations?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Limited government was what created states rights and states rights allowed states to ignore constitutional amendments. We are not arguing this from your perspective. And if I am stating that government did this, it is apparent that I accepted that as truth.

Limited government did NOT create that situation. States' rights was a different issue. That was a fight over authority and is not relevant to the overall issue:

What is the purpose of government?

You are arguing the same thing I am arguing. The purpose of government is to PROTECT the rights of the individual. You ARE arguing from my perspective. Why does it have to be a different perspective just because I am white and you are black? When government fails to protect your rights, it is the same failure as when government fails to protect mine.

As for your argument about the pyramid, it is expected that a white person will argue about the issues presented below the covert line. Paternalistic racism is particularly related to Blacks or African Americans and Whites in the United States. It implies that White people have the right to interfere with the lives of Black people for their own good. We see this consistently from whites here relative to discussions of race. Covid19 is a virus that is shown to kill people so the lockdown is not paternalism when it is known that a person can die and the thinking is protection from that death.

And, which political party is up to its fucking eyeballs in paternalistic racism? Don't get me wrong. If the Republicans could somehow make themselves the perpetrators of paternalistic racism, they would. They are no different.

Is it paternalistic racism to give or try to give black folks FREEDOM?

On COVID-19, you can't have it both ways. It is paternalism, without question. Some may argue that it is necessary and not an abusive form of paternalism (it is), but it is the epitome of paternalism.

The things you argue are obvious examples of white supremacy. Your argument always comes down to, "What about me?" Drop that argument and start looking at this situation from a macro view because the constitution was about "We the people", not "I the person". Reparations are about the oppression of we, not what about me. Now tell me bootney, why do you whites pay native americans reparations every year for things you were not alive to do, but you try this sorry ass argument when blacks ask for reparations?

You have mistakenly taken "We the People" out of context. That phrase is a preamble to a society collected as a nation creating a government. It has NOTHING to do with how rights are held.

There is NO SUCH THING as a collective right. I have an individual right to assembly. It's mine. That right is exercised collectively, but each individual assembling holds that right independent of anyone else.

I have already said that paying Native Americans should stop. I have already conceded that past generations have doled out free money to whites only. I have already agreed that some form of reparations are due because of that and other RACIST actions of past generations.

But, that does not detract from the VERY VALID argument that reparations DO amount to one race being unjustly indebted to another race SOLELY because of what some dead people did to other dead people. It amounts to an unborn child being indebted to another unborn child with no say in the circumstances whatsoever!!! It may be necessary and I have acknowledge the need for such, but there can be no mistaking that it is STILL the purest form of injustice imaginable. I don't care who is getting paid right now.

Acknowledge THAT shit, accept it for what it REALLY is, and we might actually get somewhere closer to making it happen.

.