So we end NAFTA, and then what? What is it right wingers think will happen?

[Care4all]

at this point, we don't have the manufacturing capability to support the USA'S shopping needs....all adding tariffs would do is simply raise the prices on consumers, without the manufacturing capabilities here....it will take just as many years to rebuild the manufacturing industries, as it did to take it away from us....

 

[Disir]

Time is a wasting.

 

[Care4all]

Your problem is you think we can just twinkle our nose, and this problem will be solved.... looks good on paper, but in REALITY it ain't as simplistic as you may think.

 

[Disir]

Oh, that is not my problem.

 

[anotherlife]

We supply a huge medical device manufacturer with components for imaging systems. They have just completed the relocation of the manufacture of those products to Mexico. Our first shipment to Monterey went out wednesday.

The assertions that these aren't real jobs or that there is a skills gap or that robots are doing these jobs are utter bullshit, at least in this case.

Hundreds of people in Milwaukee and Madison that used to have decent paying jobs don't any longer all the way on up to engineering, which was sent to india. Labor cost was the primary driver. Yeah, nafta!

Watching good paying jobs sucked out of this country while people stand and watch, or argue that this is actually good for us, or that its just robots, or that the skills just arent here, is one the the most patently insane things I've seen in my lifetime. Total fucking nonsense. It's about the bottom line and nothing else.

You may have the national skill set for an industry, but when you ship it out to another country, it takes about two years for that national skill set to go out of date and irrelevant.

 

[rdean]

Uh, HELLOOOOOOOOO. Knock Knock dumbass. Why do you think education is such a major part of the Democratic Party Platform? Huh Einstein? Can't figure that out?

The lazy ass GOP base is being promised unskilled high paying jobs by the worlds biggest con artist Donald Trump. And they are swallowing his bullshit hook, line and sinker.

The dumb motherfucker here is you. Fuck you. You are the one swallowing this bullshit hook line and sinker or worse. You know better and you are lying through your teeth. The Democrats are just filthy pieces of shit.

You just keep believing that education is bullshit and has nothing to do with good paying jobs.
Pity you can't get overtime working that street corner. Takes a looot of crumpled singles to pay rent, doesn't it?

I didn't say education is bullshit. There is no jobskills gap, asshat. None. You continuously perpetuate this myth which is one of the most harmful lies to have come about.

Remember this?
The 'Skills Gap' Myth | The Progressive

It's an opinion piece. Notice no mention of automation anywhere in the article. And if China and Mexico are losing jobs, then where are they going? I'm a progressive and I know bullshit when I read it. Even if someone ignorantly labels busllshit progressive, it's still bullshit.
When farmers moved into cities at the beginning of the industrial revolution, was there a skills gap then? Of course there was. Now that we have robots and programming, of course we have a skills gap now. You don't just know how to program a CNC machine. And now most have 3d capabilities. It takes practice, study and experience.

All those employers looking for qualified workers and you say there is no jobskills gap. What do you do for a living? Eat candy? Even begging takes skills. Funny, the same skills Donald Trump has. Getting other people's money.

That's right, no mention of automation anywhere in the article. What does that tell you? Automation does not play the part you wish it did. Sure there will be an impact by automation but not at the level you are trying to hide behind. How the fuck do you manage to sleep at night or look in the mirror?

Let me introduce you to this:
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement

A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced

https://thinkprogress.org/clinton-c...high-skill-visas-6260d388751f?gi=4a011763eec1

http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2016/03/displaced-american-stem-workers-spur-senate-hearing

Outsourcing the law to India | Need to Know | PBS

TD Bank to outsource 35 Lewiston jobs - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The Hidden Dangers of Outsourcing Radiology

University of California hires India-based IT outsourcer, lays off tech workers

outsourcing Search Results

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.


Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.
NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers


I am a liberal. I recognize bullshit when I read it especially if it's being spewed from an alleged liberal. There is no job skills gap. None. You are a neoliberal asshole.

You aren't a liberal. You are a fucking idiot. I don't even need to go look anything up to slap the shit out of you. Assembly line automation didn't just spring up. It replaced blue collar jobs. A person loading 6 to a box today will be unemployed tomarrow. Believe it!

 

[Disir]

The dumb motherfucker here is you. Fuck you. You are the one swallowing this bullshit hook line and sinker or worse. You know better and you are lying through your teeth. The Democrats are just filthy pieces of shit.

You just keep believing that education is bullshit and has nothing to do with good paying jobs.
Pity you can't get overtime working that street corner. Takes a looot of crumpled singles to pay rent, doesn't it?

I didn't say education is bullshit. There is no jobskills gap, asshat. None. You continuously perpetuate this myth which is one of the most harmful lies to have come about.

Remember this?
The 'Skills Gap' Myth | The Progressive

It's an opinion piece. Notice no mention of automation anywhere in the article. And if China and Mexico are losing jobs, then where are they going? I'm a progressive and I know bullshit when I read it. Even if someone ignorantly labels busllshit progressive, it's still bullshit.
When farmers moved into cities at the beginning of the industrial revolution, was there a skills gap then? Of course there was. Now that we have robots and programming, of course we have a skills gap now. You don't just know how to program a CNC machine. And now most have 3d capabilities. It takes practice, study and experience.

All those employers looking for qualified workers and you say there is no jobskills gap. What do you do for a living? Eat candy? Even begging takes skills. Funny, the same skills Donald Trump has. Getting other people's money.

That's right, no mention of automation anywhere in the article. What does that tell you? Automation does not play the part you wish it did. Sure there will be an impact by automation but not at the level you are trying to hide behind. How the fuck do you manage to sleep at night or look in the mirror?

Let me introduce you to this:
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement

A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced

https://thinkprogress.org/clinton-c...high-skill-visas-6260d388751f?gi=4a011763eec1

http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2016/03/displaced-american-stem-workers-spur-senate-hearing

Outsourcing the law to India | Need to Know | PBS

TD Bank to outsource 35 Lewiston jobs - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The Hidden Dangers of Outsourcing Radiology

University of California hires India-based IT outsourcer, lays off tech workers

outsourcing Search Results

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.


Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.
NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers


I am a liberal. I recognize bullshit when I read it especially if it's being spewed from an alleged liberal. There is no job skills gap. None. You are a neoliberal asshole.

You aren't a liberal. You are a fucking idiot. I don't even need to go look anything up to slap the shit out of you. Assembly line automation didn't just spring up. It replaced blue collar jobs. A person loading 6 to a box today will be unemployed tomarrow. Believe it!

You're disgusting filth. A neoliberal little bitch. Nothing more. You demonstrate this every time you post.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It's called Technology and automation. And you can't ban those. We have no trade agreement with Technology and Automation.

of course liberals like Hitler Stalin and Mao did anything they wanted and easily could have banned new technology if they had wanted to. The Queen of England banned spinning technology for a while to save jobs.
I don't see why liberals wouldn't ban new technology to save jobs??

 

[Andylusion]

What's sad is NAFTA is probably one of the better trade agreements..... labor price in Canada is equal or more expensive than here and Mexico is less than us but probably getting paid 2 to 3 times more than labor in China, Taiwan, VietNam and most of Asia....

btw, what in the world do we import from Mexico? Food? Tequila? Cars? or is OIL our biggest import from Mexico?

I just don't see many things that say ''made in mexico'' on the label, while near everything says ''made in china''....

We do get molta from Mexico...

i had to look that up in the urban dictionary

But that's the black market, and it's doin' just fine with or without a treaty!

I'll give you a more informative answer.

Products that the United States imports from Mexico (2014)

According to the OEC, which is an MIT project (I wager collecting millions in government grants).....

We import roughly $290 Billion in products from Mexico.

The largest single portion of which, as you guessed.... is Crude oil, at $26 Billion. So while it is the single largest import... it's still only 9% of the products we get from Mexico.

The rest are various goods ranging from fully built cars (namely the VW Jetta, and some Honda models), to food products, medical supplies, and even precious metals.

The largest section of imports is equipment, which ranges from computers, to telephones, to refrigerators, air pumps and street lights.

The primary reason you generally don't see "made in Mexico" on much, is because the products we import from Mexico, tend to either be large expensive things, like Tractor Trailers, Delivery Vans, industrial electrical transformers, and industrial furnaces.... or they tend to be items that are used to make other products. For example, Mexico sold to us, almost $7 Billion dollars in seats. Seats in busses, seats in aircraft, seats put into your car. You could be putting your butt on a Mexican imported seat every time you drive.

Equally we tend to export to Mexico, tons of refined oil products, and many built goods, and additionally we sell tons of production equipment. For example, metal molds, chemical compounds, control systems, and so on.

What you will notice though, is that many of the exact same things are both imported and exported to, and from, the exact same countries.

All the same things listed that we import from Mexico, we also export to Mexico.

For example, VW has their assembly plant in Mexico, but the Engine plant is located in the US.
At the same time, Ford's diesel engine is built in Mexico, but assembled into a car, here in the US.

So when you see Mexico is importing car engines, and exporting car engines at the same time... it seems to defy logic. In reality, we export computers to Mexico, and import computers from Mexico. We export chemicals to Mexico, and import chemicals from Mexico.

Same with cars. We import cars from Mexico. We also export billions of dollars worth of cars to Mexico. Manufacturers who have cars they can't sell, can often export them to Mexico and recoup some of the loss. And of course millions of used cars are shipped south as well.

This is why, no matter what limitation on free-trade we put in place, it will hurt US, the most. Protectionism will always harm the country engaging in it, the most.

Nearly all of the jobs I've had, used imported goods to build their products. The job I'm at right now, does this. Most of those jobs would cease to exist, if protectionism was implemented, and free-trade was repealed.

. Ok then what needs to happen for labor on all sides of the equation then, is that the united states who leads on most policy making or influencing in the world, should work tirelessly to get the world to play fair or right when it comes to the same stance or policy taken on the treatment of our soldiers in a humanitarian way, and this when they are out in the world warring for what should be humanitarian causes being fought for.

Labor around the world should enjoy the same protections as the soldiers of war, and the mistreatment of labor should be seen in the same way as the mistreatment of soldiers or of the prisoners of war. But see that won't play well in the communist world like China in which this idiot nation should have never engaged with, because they have the worst human rights records in the world per-sae, but for the love of globalism we turn a blind eye to these things, and that makes this nation just as guilty as the nations doing the abuses or mistreatment of it's citizens.

Our complicit blind eye has made us to be in subjection to our old enemies for whom were once nations that feared our righteousness, and stance on human rights in the world, but now they see that our greed has caused us to join the very thing in which we once disagreed with totally on. It's shameful, and the demons amongst us are loving every minute of it.

The problem there is..... how are they playing 'unfair'? A free trade agreement, is just that.... free trade.

In other words, if we can buy goods with zero tariff, and sell goods with zero tariff.... that's fair in my book.

In what way are other countries playing unfairly?

Soldiers are a different deal, because we end up with their people, and they end up with our people. So a mutual standard on how to treat soldiers benefits both sides.

I would disagree with you on how to treat labor.

First, it's not even possible. If you demanded today, that the labor of 1900s, should enjoy the same level of treatment in 2000, what you are talking about is not just unlikely... it's impossible.

The companies did not have the physical wealth to provide the same level of comfort to their employees in 1900, that companies have the wealth to provide today. It simply isn't possible. You could demand that they do, all you want. You could even pass laws that require they do, all you want. But it's not going to happen, because its' simply not possible.

It would be like a 10-year-old demanding his parents buy him a $400 Playstation 4, in the 1900s. Not only was the technology not available, but your parents simply didn't have that kind of money.

Similarly, these countries you are talking about, often don't have the means or even the availability of the standards you are trying to require.

And in many cases, some of these countries are not like the US in the 1900s, but some are like the US in the 1800s. A few are like the US in the 1700s.

These employers located over seas, do not have the money to provide a US standard of employment. Even if they did have the money, many countries do not have the ability to provide such a standard.

So while it's nifty to sit around and claim we should force foreign companies to provide X Y and Z, essentially, if we made that an actual rule, those companies would shut down, and all those people unemployed.

How would you feel, if the UN imposed a rule on the US, that forced your company, and your son's and daughter's companies to shut down?

It's pretty easy to sit here on your moral high-horse, while you doom others to endless poverty by driving out the few good jobs in their country. And by the way, they are the few goods jobs. The Nike Factory that the left-wingers forced to close in Malaysia, was one of the highest paying employers in Malaysia. That's why they had 100 applicants for each vacant position.

Lastly, I'm a bit put off by this hypocrisy.

You talk about our complicit blind eye, yet corporations do tons of audits on vendors. Most of the big corporations to routine checks, to see that their vendors are up to par.

Now compare that to.... yourself. Have you checked your suppliers? Do you check how the mechanic shop that fixes your car, how they treat their employees? Are you willing to pay a much higher price to go to a more expensive shop that pays their employees more?

Have you checked how the farms you buy your food from, how they treat their employees?

Have you checked the working conditions at the utility companies?

The preacher should practice what he preaches, don't you think?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In what way are other countries playing unfairly?

to a liberal, China can't trade fairly because they have lower prices. This would be identical to saying Ecuador can trade fairly in bananas because they produce them at such low prices. They want a tariff against them so they will be the same price as our greenhouse grown bananas.

It seems stupid to a thoughtful person, but that is the way a liberal actually thinks believe it or not.

 

[Toro]

There have been many, many posts on this site about NAFTA and employment.

It's true, Ohio has lost 300,000 jobs since NAFTA was signed. The country has lost millions of jobs since NAFTA. But if the US is losing so many jobs to Mexico, and even China, then why are China and Mexico also losing jobs?

It's called Technology and automation. And you can't ban those. We have no trade agreement with Technology and Automation.

The only thing you can do is get an education and join. Or support. But support will generally be low paying jobs. And that's it. That's all you can do. One or the other.

We could scrap NAFTA and the WTO, and all those manufacturing jobs will not be coming back.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There have been many, many posts on this site about NAFTA and employment.

It's true, Ohio has lost 300,000 jobs since NAFTA was signed. The country has lost millions of jobs since NAFTA. But if the US is losing so many jobs to Mexico, and even China, then why are China and Mexico also losing jobs?

It's called Technology and automation. And you can't ban those. We have no trade agreement with Technology and Automation.

The only thing you can do is get an education and join. Or support. But support will generally be low paying jobs. And that's it. That's all you can do. One or the other.

We could scrap NAFTA and the WTO, and all those manufacturing jobs will not be coming back.

How could they when obama and his cronys control the WH?

And won't even prosecute Louis or hillary?

 

[Toro]

There have been many, many posts on this site about NAFTA and employment.

It's true, Ohio has lost 300,000 jobs since NAFTA was signed. The country has lost millions of jobs since NAFTA. But if the US is losing so many jobs to Mexico, and even China, then why are China and Mexico also losing jobs?

It's called Technology and automation. And you can't ban those. We have no trade agreement with Technology and Automation.

The only thing you can do is get an education and join. Or support. But support will generally be low paying jobs. And that's it. That's all you can do. One or the other.

We could scrap NAFTA and the WTO, and all those manufacturing jobs will not be coming back.

How could they when obama and his cronys control the WH?

And won't even prosecute Louis or hillary?

It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.

Put down those pom-poms.

 

[rdean]

It's called Technology and automation. And you can't ban those. We have no trade agreement with Technology and Automation.

of course liberals like Hitler Stalin and Mao did anything they wanted and easily could have banned new technology if they had wanted to. The Queen of England banned spinning technology for a while to save jobs.
I don't see why liberals wouldn't ban new technology to save jobs??

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you delusional?

 

[rdean]

You just keep believing that education is bullshit and has nothing to do with good paying jobs.
Pity you can't get overtime working that street corner. Takes a looot of crumpled singles to pay rent, doesn't it?

I didn't say education is bullshit. There is no jobskills gap, asshat. None. You continuously perpetuate this myth which is one of the most harmful lies to have come about.

Remember this?
The 'Skills Gap' Myth | The Progressive

It's an opinion piece. Notice no mention of automation anywhere in the article. And if China and Mexico are losing jobs, then where are they going? I'm a progressive and I know bullshit when I read it. Even if someone ignorantly labels busllshit progressive, it's still bullshit.
When farmers moved into cities at the beginning of the industrial revolution, was there a skills gap then? Of course there was. Now that we have robots and programming, of course we have a skills gap now. You don't just know how to program a CNC machine. And now most have 3d capabilities. It takes practice, study and experience.

All those employers looking for qualified workers and you say there is no jobskills gap. What do you do for a living? Eat candy? Even begging takes skills. Funny, the same skills Donald Trump has. Getting other people's money.

That's right, no mention of automation anywhere in the article. What does that tell you? Automation does not play the part you wish it did. Sure there will be an impact by automation but not at the level you are trying to hide behind. How the fuck do you manage to sleep at night or look in the mirror?

Let me introduce you to this:
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement

A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced

https://thinkprogress.org/clinton-c...high-skill-visas-6260d388751f?gi=4a011763eec1

http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2016/03/displaced-american-stem-workers-spur-senate-hearing

Outsourcing the law to India | Need to Know | PBS

TD Bank to outsource 35 Lewiston jobs - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The Hidden Dangers of Outsourcing Radiology

University of California hires India-based IT outsourcer, lays off tech workers

outsourcing Search Results

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.


Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.
NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers


I am a liberal. I recognize bullshit when I read it especially if it's being spewed from an alleged liberal. There is no job skills gap. None. You are a neoliberal asshole.

You aren't a liberal. You are a fucking idiot. I don't even need to go look anything up to slap the shit out of you. Assembly line automation didn't just spring up. It replaced blue collar jobs. A person loading 6 to a box today will be unemployed tomarrow. Believe it!

You're disgusting filth. A neoliberal little bitch. Nothing more. You demonstrate this every time you post.

And you have to be one of the most ignorant assholes ever to post here. This is what you said:

There is no job skills gap.

One of the problems with dumbfucks is even when something is obvious, they just don't get it. And probably never will.

Here is an article bursting with "common sense". Let's cherry pick, shall we?

Employers Aren’t Just Whining – the “Skills Gap” Is Real

But the idea of a “skills gap” as identified in this and other surveys has been widely criticized. Peter Cappelli asks whether these studies are just a sign of “employer whining;” Paul Krugman calls the skills gap a “zombie idea” that “that should have been killed by evidence, but refuses to die.” The New York Times asserts that it is “mostly a corporate fiction, based in part on self-interest and a misreading of government data.”

Really? A worldwide scheme by thousands of business managers to manipulate public opinion seems far-fetched. Perhaps the simpler explanation is the better one: many employers might actually have difficulty hiring skilled workers. The critics cite economic evidence to argue that there are no major shortages of skilled workers.

Nevertheless, employers still have real difficulties hiring workers with the skills to deal with new technologies.

Technology doesn’t make all workers’ skills more valuable; some skills become valuable, but others go obsolete. Wages should only go up for those particular groups of workers who have highly demanded skills. Some economists observe wages in major occupational groups or by state or metropolitan area to conclude that there are no major skill shortages. But these broad categories don’t correspond to worker skills either, so this evidence is also not compelling.

The wages of the top 10% of designers have risen strongly; the wages of the average designer have not. There is a shortage of skilled designers but it can only be seen in the wages of those designers who have managed to master new technologies.

Although it is difficult for workers and employers to develop these new skills, this difficulty creates opportunity. Those workers who acquire the latest skills earn good pay; those employers who hire the right workers and train them well can realize the competitive advantages that come with new technologies.

-----------------------------------

There are a couple of different messages here even a dumbshit could get.

There are jobs that are derived from new technology and people aren't doing those jobs because they can't find anyone with the skill set.

Then there are jobs that exist, but while there are a lot of people who may be able to do the job, there are only a few who can do the job in a really competitive manner because only a few have bothered to spend the extra time to become top tier in their field learning upgrades in newly developed technology that supports their industry.

Regardless of the situation, they all have one thing in common. EDUCATION. Not all education happens at a college or a university. No one is saying that. That means you may need to go elsewhere to get the education you need to earn the type of salary you believe you deserve.

But whether education comes from a college, a technical school, a university or an apprenticeship or even self taught, it's still education.

 

[Disir]

I didn't say education is bullshit. There is no jobskills gap, asshat. None. You continuously perpetuate this myth which is one of the most harmful lies to have come about.

Remember this?
The 'Skills Gap' Myth | The Progressive

It's an opinion piece. Notice no mention of automation anywhere in the article. And if China and Mexico are losing jobs, then where are they going? I'm a progressive and I know bullshit when I read it. Even if someone ignorantly labels busllshit progressive, it's still bullshit.
When farmers moved into cities at the beginning of the industrial revolution, was there a skills gap then? Of course there was. Now that we have robots and programming, of course we have a skills gap now. You don't just know how to program a CNC machine. And now most have 3d capabilities. It takes practice, study and experience.

All those employers looking for qualified workers and you say there is no jobskills gap. What do you do for a living? Eat candy? Even begging takes skills. Funny, the same skills Donald Trump has. Getting other people's money.

That's right, no mention of automation anywhere in the article. What does that tell you? Automation does not play the part you wish it did. Sure there will be an impact by automation but not at the level you are trying to hide behind. How the fuck do you manage to sleep at night or look in the mirror?

Let me introduce you to this:
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement

A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced

https://thinkprogress.org/clinton-c...high-skill-visas-6260d388751f?gi=4a011763eec1

http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2016/03/displaced-american-stem-workers-spur-senate-hearing

Outsourcing the law to India | Need to Know | PBS

TD Bank to outsource 35 Lewiston jobs - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The Hidden Dangers of Outsourcing Radiology

University of California hires India-based IT outsourcer, lays off tech workers

outsourcing Search Results

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.


Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.
NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers


I am a liberal. I recognize bullshit when I read it especially if it's being spewed from an alleged liberal. There is no job skills gap. None. You are a neoliberal asshole.

You aren't a liberal. You are a fucking idiot. I don't even need to go look anything up to slap the shit out of you. Assembly line automation didn't just spring up. It replaced blue collar jobs. A person loading 6 to a box today will be unemployed tomarrow. Believe it!

You're disgusting filth. A neoliberal little bitch. Nothing more. You demonstrate this every time you post.

And you have to be one of the most ignorant assholes ever to post here. This is what you said:

There is no job skills gap.

One of the problems with dumbfucks is even when something is obvious, they just don't get it. And probably never will.

Here is an article bursting with "common sense". Let's cherry pick, shall we?

Employers Aren’t Just Whining – the “Skills Gap” Is Real

But the idea of a “skills gap” as identified in this and other surveys has been widely criticized. Peter Cappelli asks whether these studies are just a sign of “employer whining;” Paul Krugman calls the skills gap a “zombie idea” that “that should have been killed by evidence, but refuses to die.” The New York Times asserts that it is “mostly a corporate fiction, based in part on self-interest and a misreading of government data.”

Really? A worldwide scheme by thousands of business managers to manipulate public opinion seems far-fetched. Perhaps the simpler explanation is the better one: many employers might actually have difficulty hiring skilled workers. The critics cite economic evidence to argue that there are no major shortages of skilled workers.

Nevertheless, employers still have real difficulties hiring workers with the skills to deal with new technologies.

Technology doesn’t make all workers’ skills more valuable; some skills become valuable, but others go obsolete. Wages should only go up for those particular groups of workers who have highly demanded skills. Some economists observe wages in major occupational groups or by state or metropolitan area to conclude that there are no major skill shortages. But these broad categories don’t correspond to worker skills either, so this evidence is also not compelling.

The wages of the top 10% of designers have risen strongly; the wages of the average designer have not. There is a shortage of skilled designers but it can only be seen in the wages of those designers who have managed to master new technologies.

Although it is difficult for workers and employers to develop these new skills, this difficulty creates opportunity. Those workers who acquire the latest skills earn good pay; those employers who hire the right workers and train them well can realize the competitive advantages that come with new technologies.

-----------------------------------

There are a couple of different messages here even a dumbshit could get.

There are jobs that are derived from new technology and people aren't doing those jobs because they can't find anyone with the skill set.

Then there are jobs that exist, but while there are a lot of people who may be able to do the job, there are only a few who can do the job in a really competitive manner because only a few have bothered to spend the extra time to become top tier in their field learning upgrades in newly developed technology that supports their industry.

Regardless of the situation, they all have one thing in common. EDUCATION. Not all education happens at a college or a university. No one is saying that. That means you may need to go elsewhere to get the education you need to earn the type of salary you believe you deserve.

But whether education comes from a college, a technical school, a university or an apprenticeship or even self taught, it's still education.

Meet the people you acquired your information from:
Richard Buchman
A seasoned corporate lawyer and executive with deep in-house experience with public company issues, Richard has valuable strategic and leadership experience and is recognized for his work on corporate governance and disclosure. He previously served as Partner and Associate General Counsel for Accenture plc, a $28 billion consulting, technology services and outsourcing company. Earlier in his career, Richard worked for investment firm D. E. Shaw & Company in New York, and as general counsel of its portfolio company, Juno Online Services. He also served as senior corporate counsel for global travel company Orbitz and as an independent legal consultant.

Richard was invited to the Listed Company Advisory Board of the New York Stock Exchange in April 2015, and joined the Board of Trustees of the Milwaukee Art Museum in December 2014. He earned an AB degree from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and a JD from Columbia Law School. Married with two daughters, Richard lives in the Milwaukee area.
Richard Buchband

Jonas Prising was named ManpowerGroup Chairman in December of 2015 and Chief Executive Officer (CEO) in May of 2014. He leads all aspects of ManpowerGroup’s $20 billion business in 80 countries and territories worldwide. Prior to being elected CEO, Prising served as ManpowerGroup President from 2012 to 2014, leading the company’s operations in the Americas and Southern Europe, and overseeing the global Right Management and ManpowerGroup Solutions businesses. Prising joined ManpowerGroup in 1999 and has also served as managing director of Manpower Italy; director of Manpower Global Accounts — Europe, Middle East and Africa; President of North America; and President of the Americas.


A recognized expert on the labor market and world of work trends, Prising regularly speaks at conferences and summits around the world. He actively engages in the World Economic Forum annual and regional meetings and frequently provides commentary on jobs and employment trends for national and global media.

Before joining the company, Prising worked for Electrolux, a Swedish multinational. During his 10-year tenure with Electrolux, he held various international positions within the consumer goods and business-to-business divisions, including regional manager for Asia Pacific, managing director of Sales Companies in France and the United Kingdom, and finally head of Global Sales and Marketing for one of its business-to-business divisions.

Prising is passionate about preparing the workforce of tomorrow. He is Vice Chairman of Junior Achievement (JA) Worldwide and is a former Chairman of the Board and a current board member of Junior Achievement (JA) USA. In addition, he serves as a co-chair of Innovation in Milwaukee, an organization focused on supporting entrepreneurial leadership, and is a member of the board of directors of Kohl's Corporation.


Prising holds an MBA (equivalent) from the Stockholm School of Economics and has participated in executive programs at Harvard, INSEAD, Stanford and Yale. He speaks five languages: English, French, German, Swedish and Italian and has lived in nine countries across Asia, Europe and North America. Prising and his family reside in the Milwaukee area.
Jonas Prising

Darryl Green has been President and Chief Operating Officer of ManpowerGroup since May 1, 2014. As COO, Darryl is responsible for our four regions – Americas, APME, Southern and Northern Europe. Darryl is a strong commercial leader and in his role focuses on driving growth with the disciplined execution needed to achieve our goal of Industry Star.

To support the simplification efforts of the organization, in October 2012 Darryl Green was promoted to ManpowerGroup President. Darryl’s position allowed the company to be a more agile organization that made quicker decisions and drove stronger execution and operational performance.

Prior to being promoted to President, Darryl Green was President of the company's Asia Pacific and Middle East operations. Previously in charge solely of Asia Pacific, Darryl took on additional responsibility for overseeing the Middle East from January 2009. This represents a natural progression for him, as the majority of the workforce in the Middle East is sourced from the Asian region.

Prior to joining ManpowerGroup in May 2007 to lead Asia and Pacific, Green served as CEO of Tata Teleservices, India's fastest growing telecom operator, where revenues tripled and market share doubled during his tenure, which began in 2005. Previously, Green was CEO of Vodafone Japan, a publicly listed mobile services provider, where earnings more than doubled and revenues grew to US$15 billion during his three years at the helm. From 1989 to 1998, Green held various management positions within AT&T, including three years as President and CEO of its Japanese operations.

Green holds an MBA from the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College and a BA in Japanese/Asian studies from Brigham Young University. He is an American national who speaks fluent Japanese. He has served as the Vice Chairman of the Japan Telecommunications Association and as a member of the Mizuho Financial Group's advisory board and is currently one of the directors of the Japan Staffing Service Association (JASSA).

Jack McGinnis was named Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer in February 2016. As CFO, he is responsible for ManpowerGroup’s worldwide finance, accounting and internal audit functions.

As a member of ManpowerGroup’s Executive Leadership Team, Jack is engaged in supporting and developing the company’s business and finance strategies and driving operational performance across all geographies and business lines.

Jack joined ManpowerGroup from Morgan Stanley, where he served as Global Controller responsible for financial accounting and controls, SEC and regulatory reporting, financial planning and analysis, and the finance function for their large U.S. bank. Previously, he served as CFO, HSBC North America Holdings Inc., and before that was Partner at Ernst & Young.

Jack is a graduate of Loyola University Chicago and holds a bachelor of business administration in public accounting. He is a Certified Public Accountant and a member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants.

He is moving to Milwaukee with his wife and enjoys spending time with his four children.

Seen enough? You can hit the link.

Now, what do you think they do? Hmm?
Manpower


You're a right wing piece of shit. Try again.

 

[Disir]

Let's have a look see
Having the best talent is a competitive advantage in today’s demanding and complex world. Because the success of business relies upon talent, acquiring the most qualified people is increasingly competitive. To win, organizations need expertise in implementing innovative and differentiated sourcing and attraction strategies.
That's why companies have turned to ManpowerGroup Solutions Recruitment Process Outsourcing. We deliver RPO solutions around the world through four regional centers, Asia Pacific and Middle East, Europe, Latin America and North America, leveraging our global experience to deliver regional RPO expertise. Through these regional centers we provide flexible and scalable recruitment solutions which can include anything from sourcing and selection to onboarding to find the talent you need. Built upon our deep recruitment expertise and based on rigorous processes, our innovative approach ensures the results you need — greater predictability of cost, a more efficient recruiting process, an improved candidate experience and, more importantly, improved talent quality.

Rated for the fourth consecutive year as the global leader in Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) by Everest Research Group in 2014, ManpowerGroup Solutions’ Recruitment Process Outsourcing has earned the reputation as the choice provider of Recruitment Process Outsourcing Workforce Solutions
ManpowerGroup Solutions Named as Leader in
Recruitment Process Outsourcing

Download the ManpowerGroup Solutions RPO Brochure

Why RPO from ManpowerGroup Solutions?
Expert Recruiters
No two organizations are ever alike. That’s why our expert recruiters dig deep to understand your organization and the job skills necessary for success. We use proven sourcing strategies to identify where the talent is and how best to attract them. Our experience and expertise accelerates the acquisition of the right talent for you.

Innovative Approach
Based on ManpowerGroup's extensive thought leadership and unique perspective on the world of work, we bring cutting-edge insight and innovation to the way we operate, keeping our clients ahead of the competitive curve.

Customized Solutions
Our RPO process starts with our clients’ goals. It’s a fully collaborative approach with us as strong yet flexible partners. We fully align to your corporate culture, business strategy and talent needs.

Global Reach. Local Expertise.
Backed by the world's largest footprint and dedicated recruiting centers, we have a deep understanding of each local market in which we serve and leverage our global network to meet your workforce needs anywhere around the world.
Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) Solutions: ManpowerGroup Solutions

 

[beagle9]

What's sad is NAFTA is probably one of the better trade agreements..... labor price in Canada is equal or more expensive than here and Mexico is less than us but probably getting paid 2 to 3 times more than labor in China, Taiwan, VietNam and most of Asia....

btw, what in the world do we import from Mexico? Food? Tequila? Cars? or is OIL our biggest import from Mexico?

I just don't see many things that say ''made in mexico'' on the label, while near everything says ''made in china''....

We do get molta from Mexico...

i had to look that up in the urban dictionary

But that's the black market, and it's doin' just fine with or without a treaty!

I'll give you a more informative answer.

Products that the United States imports from Mexico (2014)

According to the OEC, which is an MIT project (I wager collecting millions in government grants).....

We import roughly $290 Billion in products from Mexico.

The largest single portion of which, as you guessed.... is Crude oil, at $26 Billion. So while it is the single largest import... it's still only 9% of the products we get from Mexico.

The rest are various goods ranging from fully built cars (namely the VW Jetta, and some Honda models), to food products, medical supplies, and even precious metals.

The largest section of imports is equipment, which ranges from computers, to telephones, to refrigerators, air pumps and street lights.

The primary reason you generally don't see "made in Mexico" on much, is because the products we import from Mexico, tend to either be large expensive things, like Tractor Trailers, Delivery Vans, industrial electrical transformers, and industrial furnaces.... or they tend to be items that are used to make other products. For example, Mexico sold to us, almost $7 Billion dollars in seats. Seats in busses, seats in aircraft, seats put into your car. You could be putting your butt on a Mexican imported seat every time you drive.

Equally we tend to export to Mexico, tons of refined oil products, and many built goods, and additionally we sell tons of production equipment. For example, metal molds, chemical compounds, control systems, and so on.

What you will notice though, is that many of the exact same things are both imported and exported to, and from, the exact same countries.

All the same things listed that we import from Mexico, we also export to Mexico.

For example, VW has their assembly plant in Mexico, but the Engine plant is located in the US.
At the same time, Ford's diesel engine is built in Mexico, but assembled into a car, here in the US.

So when you see Mexico is importing car engines, and exporting car engines at the same time... it seems to defy logic. In reality, we export computers to Mexico, and import computers from Mexico. We export chemicals to Mexico, and import chemicals from Mexico.

Same with cars. We import cars from Mexico. We also export billions of dollars worth of cars to Mexico. Manufacturers who have cars they can't sell, can often export them to Mexico and recoup some of the loss. And of course millions of used cars are shipped south as well.

This is why, no matter what limitation on free-trade we put in place, it will hurt US, the most. Protectionism will always harm the country engaging in it, the most.

Nearly all of the jobs I've had, used imported goods to build their products. The job I'm at right now, does this. Most of those jobs would cease to exist, if protectionism was implemented, and free-trade was repealed.

. Ok then what needs to happen for labor on all sides of the equation then, is that the united states who leads on most policy making or influencing in the world, should work tirelessly to get the world to play fair or right when it comes to the same stance or policy taken on the treatment of our soldiers in a humanitarian way, and this when they are out in the world warring for what should be humanitarian causes being fought for.

Labor around the world should enjoy the same protections as the soldiers of war, and the mistreatment of labor should be seen in the same way as the mistreatment of soldiers or of the prisoners of war. But see that won't play well in the communist world like China in which this idiot nation should have never engaged with, because they have the worst human rights records in the world per-sae, but for the love of globalism we turn a blind eye to these things, and that makes this nation just as guilty as the nations doing the abuses or mistreatment of it's citizens.

Our complicit blind eye has made us to be in subjection to our old enemies for whom were once nations that feared our righteousness, and stance on human rights in the world, but now they see that our greed has caused us to join the very thing in which we once disagreed with totally on. It's shameful, and the demons amongst us are loving every minute of it.

The problem there is..... how are they playing 'unfair'? A free trade agreement, is just that.... free trade.

In other words, if we can buy goods with zero tariff, and sell goods with zero tariff.... that's fair in my book.

In what way are other countries playing unfairly?

Soldiers are a different deal, because we end up with their people, and they end up with our people. So a mutual standard on how to treat soldiers benefits both sides.

I would disagree with you on how to treat labor.

First, it's not even possible. If you demanded today, that the labor of 1900s, should enjoy the same level of treatment in 2000, what you are talking about is not just unlikely... it's impossible.

The companies did not have the physical wealth to provide the same level of comfort to their employees in 1900, that companies have the wealth to provide today. It simply isn't possible. You could demand that they do, all you want. You could even pass laws that require they do, all you want. But it's not going to happen, because its' simply not possible.

It would be like a 10-year-old demanding his parents buy him a $400 Playstation 4, in the 1900s. Not only was the technology not available, but your parents simply didn't have that kind of money.

Similarly, these countries you are talking about, often don't have the means or even the availability of the standards you are trying to require.

And in many cases, some of these countries are not like the US in the 1900s, but some are like the US in the 1800s. A few are like the US in the 1700s.

These employers located over seas, do not have the money to provide a US standard of employment. Even if they did have the money, many countries do not have the ability to provide such a standard.

So while it's nifty to sit around and claim we should force foreign companies to provide X Y and Z, essentially, if we made that an actual rule, those companies would shut down, and all those people unemployed.

How would you feel, if the UN imposed a rule on the US, that forced your company, and your son's and daughter's companies to shut down?

It's pretty easy to sit here on your moral high-horse, while you doom others to endless poverty by driving out the few good jobs in their country. And by the way, they are the few goods jobs. The Nike Factory that the left-wingers forced to close in Malaysia, was one of the highest paying employers in Malaysia. That's why they had 100 applicants for each vacant position.

Lastly, I'm a bit put off by this hypocrisy.

You talk about our complicit blind eye, yet corporations do tons of audits on vendors. Most of the big corporations to routine checks, to see that their vendors are up to par.

Now compare that to.... yourself. Have you checked your suppliers? Do you check how the mechanic shop that fixes your car, how they treat their employees? Are you willing to pay a much higher price to go to a more expensive shop that pays their employees more?

Have you checked how the farms you buy your food from, how they treat their employees?

Have you checked the working conditions at the utility companies?

The preacher should practice what he preaches, don't you think?

. You would disagree with me on how to treat labor eh ?? So as long as the Chinese can abuse laborers who make tons of goods for America without us seeing it from our house, then that's ok with you eh ??

 

[Andylusion]

I didn't say education is bullshit. There is no jobskills gap, asshat. None. You continuously perpetuate this myth which is one of the most harmful lies to have come about.

Remember this?
The 'Skills Gap' Myth | The Progressive

It's an opinion piece. Notice no mention of automation anywhere in the article. And if China and Mexico are losing jobs, then where are they going? I'm a progressive and I know bullshit when I read it. Even if someone ignorantly labels busllshit progressive, it's still bullshit.
When farmers moved into cities at the beginning of the industrial revolution, was there a skills gap then? Of course there was. Now that we have robots and programming, of course we have a skills gap now. You don't just know how to program a CNC machine. And now most have 3d capabilities. It takes practice, study and experience.

All those employers looking for qualified workers and you say there is no jobskills gap. What do you do for a living? Eat candy? Even begging takes skills. Funny, the same skills Donald Trump has. Getting other people's money.

That's right, no mention of automation anywhere in the article. What does that tell you? Automation does not play the part you wish it did. Sure there will be an impact by automation but not at the level you are trying to hide behind. How the fuck do you manage to sleep at night or look in the mirror?

Let me introduce you to this:
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement

A phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas -- how American jobs get outsourced

https://thinkprogress.org/clinton-c...high-skill-visas-6260d388751f?gi=4a011763eec1

http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2016/03/displaced-american-stem-workers-spur-senate-hearing

Outsourcing the law to India | Need to Know | PBS

TD Bank to outsource 35 Lewiston jobs - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

The Hidden Dangers of Outsourcing Radiology

University of California hires India-based IT outsourcer, lays off tech workers

outsourcing Search Results

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.


Second, NAFTA strengthened the ability of U.S. employers to force workers to accept lower wages and benefits. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began telling their workers that their companies intended to move to Mexico unless the workers lowered the cost of their labor. In the midst of collective bargaining negotiations with unions, some companies would even start loading machinery into trucks that they said were bound for Mexico. The same threats were used to fight union organizing efforts. The message was: “If you vote in a union, we will move south of the border.” With NAFTA, corporations also could more easily blackmail local governments into giving them tax reductions and other subsidies.

Third, the destructive effect of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural and small business sectors dislocated several million Mexican workers and their families, and was a major cause in the dramatic increase in undocumented workers flowing into the U.S. labor market. This put further downward pressure on U.S. wages, especially in the already lower paying market for less skilled labor.

Fourth, and ultimately most important, NAFTA was the template for rules of the emerging global economy, in which the benefits would flow to capital and the costs to labor. The U.S. governing class—in alliance with the financial elites of its trading partners—applied NAFTA’s principles to the World Trade Organization, to the policies of the World Bank and IMF, and to the deal under which employers of China’s huge supply of low-wage workers were allowed access to U.S. markets in exchange for allowing American multinational corporations the right to invest there.
NAFTA’s Impact on U.S. Workers


I am a liberal. I recognize bullshit when I read it especially if it's being spewed from an alleged liberal. There is no job skills gap. None. You are a neoliberal asshole.

You aren't a liberal. You are a fucking idiot. I don't even need to go look anything up to slap the shit out of you. Assembly line automation didn't just spring up. It replaced blue collar jobs. A person loading 6 to a box today will be unemployed tomarrow. Believe it!

You're disgusting filth. A neoliberal little bitch. Nothing more. You demonstrate this every time you post.

And you have to be one of the most ignorant assholes ever to post here. This is what you said:

There is no job skills gap.

One of the problems with dumbfucks is even when something is obvious, they just don't get it. And probably never will.

Here is an article bursting with "common sense". Let's cherry pick, shall we?

Employers Aren’t Just Whining – the “Skills Gap” Is Real

But the idea of a “skills gap” as identified in this and other surveys has been widely criticized. Peter Cappelli asks whether these studies are just a sign of “employer whining;” Paul Krugman calls the skills gap a “zombie idea” that “that should have been killed by evidence, but refuses to die.” The New York Times asserts that it is “mostly a corporate fiction, based in part on self-interest and a misreading of government data.”

Really? A worldwide scheme by thousands of business managers to manipulate public opinion seems far-fetched. Perhaps the simpler explanation is the better one: many employers might actually have difficulty hiring skilled workers. The critics cite economic evidence to argue that there are no major shortages of skilled workers.

Nevertheless, employers still have real difficulties hiring workers with the skills to deal with new technologies.

Technology doesn’t make all workers’ skills more valuable; some skills become valuable, but others go obsolete. Wages should only go up for those particular groups of workers who have highly demanded skills. Some economists observe wages in major occupational groups or by state or metropolitan area to conclude that there are no major skill shortages. But these broad categories don’t correspond to worker skills either, so this evidence is also not compelling.

The wages of the top 10% of designers have risen strongly; the wages of the average designer have not. There is a shortage of skilled designers but it can only be seen in the wages of those designers who have managed to master new technologies.

Although it is difficult for workers and employers to develop these new skills, this difficulty creates opportunity. Those workers who acquire the latest skills earn good pay; those employers who hire the right workers and train them well can realize the competitive advantages that come with new technologies.

-----------------------------------

There are a couple of different messages here even a dumbshit could get.

There are jobs that are derived from new technology and people aren't doing those jobs because they can't find anyone with the skill set.

Then there are jobs that exist, but while there are a lot of people who may be able to do the job, there are only a few who can do the job in a really competitive manner because only a few have bothered to spend the extra time to become top tier in their field learning upgrades in newly developed technology that supports their industry.

Regardless of the situation, they all have one thing in common. EDUCATION. Not all education happens at a college or a university. No one is saying that. That means you may need to go elsewhere to get the education you need to earn the type of salary you believe you deserve.

But whether education comes from a college, a technical school, a university or an apprenticeship or even self taught, it's still education.

Yeah but it's not just education.

I'll give you a direct example. This lady I work with. She had a degree in criminal justice. Yet she works with me, for $11/hour.

Why? Because she got mad at her shack up boyfriend who found someone new (shocking that people who don't want to get married, find someone new).... so she went on a violent rampage, and now has a felony.

Well, most law offices don't want to hire someone with a felony, to work in law, unless you start at the bottom... very bottom.

So she was offered a job as Paralegal, for $25,000 a year. Did she take it? No, she was too good for that. So instead she working in a warehouse for $11/hour.

My point in all this, is that you need to have a good background and work history, and you also need to be willing to do what you have to, to succeed.

She's going to spend the next 11 years, wasting away in a warehouse, because she doesn't want to be an entry-level paralegal.

How do you get the work experience, and the trusted background, if you don't even start?

Similarly, I knew a guy who worked at another company across town, as an entry-level engineer. He got his degree, but never worked a day in his life. Companies started calling him for interviews, and then discovered he has no work history. Not even working at McDonald's. Well do you want an employee that has never worked a full days wage in his life? No. Most people don't.

You don't call up some guy to build your home, who has never worked since he was born. You'll end up with a house sitting sideways.

So no one would hire him, which is why this company got him as an intern, doing menial tasks. Which was a wise move on the companies part, because he missed 3 days of work, without calling off, in the first month. This guy is going to get fired from the first job he ever had, when he's got a degree.

When companies say they can't find skilled labor, the solution isn't just "education education education".

You need people who know how to work under authority. You need people that know how to follow the rules. You need people that are willing to do what needs done. You need people that are trust worthy, and have a work history.

It's not just shove education into their heads.

 

[Andylusion]

We do get molta from Mexico...

i had to look that up in the urban dictionary

But that's the black market, and it's doin' just fine with or without a treaty!

I'll give you a more informative answer.

Products that the United States imports from Mexico (2014)

According to the OEC, which is an MIT project (I wager collecting millions in government grants).....

We import roughly $290 Billion in products from Mexico.

The largest single portion of which, as you guessed.... is Crude oil, at $26 Billion. So while it is the single largest import... it's still only 9% of the products we get from Mexico.

The rest are various goods ranging from fully built cars (namely the VW Jetta, and some Honda models), to food products, medical supplies, and even precious metals.

The largest section of imports is equipment, which ranges from computers, to telephones, to refrigerators, air pumps and street lights.

The primary reason you generally don't see "made in Mexico" on much, is because the products we import from Mexico, tend to either be large expensive things, like Tractor Trailers, Delivery Vans, industrial electrical transformers, and industrial furnaces.... or they tend to be items that are used to make other products. For example, Mexico sold to us, almost $7 Billion dollars in seats. Seats in busses, seats in aircraft, seats put into your car. You could be putting your butt on a Mexican imported seat every time you drive.

Equally we tend to export to Mexico, tons of refined oil products, and many built goods, and additionally we sell tons of production equipment. For example, metal molds, chemical compounds, control systems, and so on.

What you will notice though, is that many of the exact same things are both imported and exported to, and from, the exact same countries.

All the same things listed that we import from Mexico, we also export to Mexico.

For example, VW has their assembly plant in Mexico, but the Engine plant is located in the US.
At the same time, Ford's diesel engine is built in Mexico, but assembled into a car, here in the US.

So when you see Mexico is importing car engines, and exporting car engines at the same time... it seems to defy logic. In reality, we export computers to Mexico, and import computers from Mexico. We export chemicals to Mexico, and import chemicals from Mexico.

Same with cars. We import cars from Mexico. We also export billions of dollars worth of cars to Mexico. Manufacturers who have cars they can't sell, can often export them to Mexico and recoup some of the loss. And of course millions of used cars are shipped south as well.

This is why, no matter what limitation on free-trade we put in place, it will hurt US, the most. Protectionism will always harm the country engaging in it, the most.

Nearly all of the jobs I've had, used imported goods to build their products. The job I'm at right now, does this. Most of those jobs would cease to exist, if protectionism was implemented, and free-trade was repealed.

. Ok then what needs to happen for labor on all sides of the equation then, is that the united states who leads on most policy making or influencing in the world, should work tirelessly to get the world to play fair or right when it comes to the same stance or policy taken on the treatment of our soldiers in a humanitarian way, and this when they are out in the world warring for what should be humanitarian causes being fought for.

Labor around the world should enjoy the same protections as the soldiers of war, and the mistreatment of labor should be seen in the same way as the mistreatment of soldiers or of the prisoners of war. But see that won't play well in the communist world like China in which this idiot nation should have never engaged with, because they have the worst human rights records in the world per-sae, but for the love of globalism we turn a blind eye to these things, and that makes this nation just as guilty as the nations doing the abuses or mistreatment of it's citizens.

Our complicit blind eye has made us to be in subjection to our old enemies for whom were once nations that feared our righteousness, and stance on human rights in the world, but now they see that our greed has caused us to join the very thing in which we once disagreed with totally on. It's shameful, and the demons amongst us are loving every minute of it.

The problem there is..... how are they playing 'unfair'? A free trade agreement, is just that.... free trade.

In other words, if we can buy goods with zero tariff, and sell goods with zero tariff.... that's fair in my book.

In what way are other countries playing unfairly?

Soldiers are a different deal, because we end up with their people, and they end up with our people. So a mutual standard on how to treat soldiers benefits both sides.

I would disagree with you on how to treat labor.

First, it's not even possible. If you demanded today, that the labor of 1900s, should enjoy the same level of treatment in 2000, what you are talking about is not just unlikely... it's impossible.

The companies did not have the physical wealth to provide the same level of comfort to their employees in 1900, that companies have the wealth to provide today. It simply isn't possible. You could demand that they do, all you want. You could even pass laws that require they do, all you want. But it's not going to happen, because its' simply not possible.

It would be like a 10-year-old demanding his parents buy him a $400 Playstation 4, in the 1900s. Not only was the technology not available, but your parents simply didn't have that kind of money.

Similarly, these countries you are talking about, often don't have the means or even the availability of the standards you are trying to require.

And in many cases, some of these countries are not like the US in the 1900s, but some are like the US in the 1800s. A few are like the US in the 1700s.

These employers located over seas, do not have the money to provide a US standard of employment. Even if they did have the money, many countries do not have the ability to provide such a standard.

So while it's nifty to sit around and claim we should force foreign companies to provide X Y and Z, essentially, if we made that an actual rule, those companies would shut down, and all those people unemployed.

How would you feel, if the UN imposed a rule on the US, that forced your company, and your son's and daughter's companies to shut down?

It's pretty easy to sit here on your moral high-horse, while you doom others to endless poverty by driving out the few good jobs in their country. And by the way, they are the few goods jobs. The Nike Factory that the left-wingers forced to close in Malaysia, was one of the highest paying employers in Malaysia. That's why they had 100 applicants for each vacant position.

Lastly, I'm a bit put off by this hypocrisy.

You talk about our complicit blind eye, yet corporations do tons of audits on vendors. Most of the big corporations to routine checks, to see that their vendors are up to par.

Now compare that to.... yourself. Have you checked your suppliers? Do you check how the mechanic shop that fixes your car, how they treat their employees? Are you willing to pay a much higher price to go to a more expensive shop that pays their employees more?

Have you checked how the farms you buy your food from, how they treat their employees?

Have you checked the working conditions at the utility companies?

The preacher should practice what he preaches, don't you think?

. You would disagree with me on how to treat labor eh ?? So as long as the Chinese can abuse laborers who make tons of goods for America without us seeing it from our house, then that's ok with you eh ??

If you can't read, you shouldn't be on a forum.

Either learn to read, or get off the forum. You are waste of time to the rest of us who want an adult discussion.