So I heard McCain wants to bomb Syria, opinions?

[uscitizen]

Lives saved is a significant humanitarian interest.

so the feds should help tornado victims in Ohio?
Or just victims in other countries?

You want to answer my question about Libya???

Libya?
I was against our military involvement there from the beginning.
I believe in the sovern rights of nations. Ours and theirs.

 

[Avatar4321]

In that part of the world if we could make headway it would be a major accomplishment.

I don't disagree there at all. I am just not sure we can make that headway with the bomb/war method. It's just not bad people we are dealing with, but powers and principalities, culture and biases, some of which have been rooted there for millenia.

 

[Outback]

Is he still alive?

 

[Rocko]

In that part of the world if we could make headway it would be a major accomplishment.

I don't disagree there at all. I am just not sure we can make that headway with the bomb/war method. It's just not bad people we are dealing with, but powers and principalities, culture and biases, some of which have been rooted there for millenia.

true.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I know Jesus wasn't American. He is Jewish.

There are more ways to help people than to just invade their country.

Fuck you for being a lying hack!

NO WHERE IN MY THREAD DOES IT SAY INVADE.

Neg earned



You are the one who told me the subject won't change from sex until we post new threads about new topics. Well what fucking good does it do when people like you can't even hold an HONEST discussion? You have to twist it to suit your view. I didn't present it that way but you had 0 fucking problems skirting the facts as presented just to suit YOU.

What exactly do you we are doing bombing Syria exactly? In what way have I been dishonest about anything on this topic.

And yes, i did tell you to post new topics so we could move on from Rush. And we are sitting here having a discussion. I have no clue why you are flipping out right now. Especially when Ive clearly said that I oppose War with Syria when we have no clear interest that I can see.

I haven't said to bomb or invade Syria. We can easily target the tanks shelling civilians. That is neither invading nor starting a war. A war is where the opposition fights back and we risk casualities or damage. All we stand to lose is a few bucks. A few bucks for lives.

You keep making out that I'm proposing all out war. That is disenginous at best.

 

[uscitizen]

Fuck you for being a lying hack!

NO WHERE IN MY THREAD DOES IT SAY INVADE.

Neg earned



You are the one who told me the subject won't change from sex until we post new threads about new topics. Well what fucking good does it do when people like you can't even hold an HONEST discussion? You have to twist it to suit your view. I didn't present it that way but you had 0 fucking problems skirting the facts as presented just to suit YOU.

What exactly do you we are doing bombing Syria exactly? In what way have I been dishonest about anything on this topic.

And yes, i did tell you to post new topics so we could move on from Rush. And we are sitting here having a discussion. I have no clue why you are flipping out right now. Especially when Ive clearly said that I oppose War with Syria when we have no clear interest that I can see.

I haven't said to bomb or invade Syria. We can easily target the tanks shelling civilians. That is neither invading nor starting a war. A war is where the opposition fights back and we risk casualities or damage. All we stand to lose is a few bucks. A few bucks for lives.

You keep making out that I'm proposing all out war. That is disenginous at best.

So if another country started bombing military targets in the USA it would not be invading?
I don't think Syria would invite our bombs to visit them.

 

[Rocko]

so the feds should help tornado victims in Ohio?
Or just victims in other countries?

You want to answer my question about Libya???

Libya?
I was against our military involvement there from the beginning.
I believe in the sovern rights of nations. Ours and theirs.

It's just interesting you didn't mention Libya when it's almost an identical situation, as opposed to Iraq or Afganistan, which you did bring up.

Sovereign rights? there's a civil war going on.

 

[Avatar4321]

I haven't said to bomb or invade Syria. We can easily target the tanks shelling civilians. That is neither invading nor starting a war. A war is where the opposition fights back and we risk casualities or damage. All we stand to lose is a few bucks. A few bucks for lives.

You keep making out that I'm proposing all out war. That is disenginous at best.

McCain said we should bomb Syria. Im disagreeing with that. You are having issues with what Im saying in response to that, I apologize, but I presumed that because you were having issues with what I was saying you were agreeing with McCain. If you don't, then clearly I was wrong and I apologize again.

I would say that im not sure we have a few bucks to lose. Nor am i confident that your scenario where there is no combat would work out in the long run.

 

[uscitizen]

You want to answer my question about Libya???

Libya?
I was against our military involvement there from the beginning.
I believe in the sovern rights of nations. Ours and theirs.

It's just interesting you didn't mention Libya when it's almost an identical situation, as opposed to Iraq or Afganistan, which you did bring up.

Sovereign rights? there's a civil war going on.

so? The fact that they have internal turmoil does not give us the right to intrude.
would we have been pissed if Mexico had invaded us while our civil war was going on?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I haven't said to bomb or invade Syria. We can easily target the tanks shelling civilians. That is neither invading nor starting a war. A war is where the opposition fights back and we risk casualities or damage. All we stand to lose is a few bucks. A few bucks for lives.

You keep making out that I'm proposing all out war. That is disenginous at best.

McCain said we should bomb Syria. Im disagreeing with that. You are having issues with what Im saying in response to that, I apologize, but I presumed that because you were having issues with what I was saying you were agreeing with McCain. If you don't, then clearly I was wrong and I apologize again.

I would say that im not sure we have a few bucks to lose. Nor am i confident that your scenario where there is no combat would work out in the long run.

I was quite clear what I thought was the proper position in my op. For you to act as though you're confused about what I think is funny. Please point to where I wasn't clear or to the point.

 

[Rocko]

Libya?
I was against our military involvement there from the beginning.
I believe in the sovern rights of nations. Ours and theirs.

It's just interesting you didn't mention Libya when it's almost an identical situation, as opposed to Iraq or Afganistan, which you did bring up.

Sovereign rights? there's a civil war going on.

so? The fact that they have internal turmoil does not give us the right to intrude.
would we have been pissed if Mexico had invaded us while our civil war was going on?

When do we have "the right" to invade? Genocide maybe?

 

[tinydancer]

I'm not saying we should get invovled, and your points are valid, but the reasons we woul get involved would be to stop Assad and maybe pave the way for a democratic free ally in Syria if all goes. It's a long shot I know. Libya did not cost much in terms of money or lives, so maybe an opperation like that would serve us well, I don't know.

Im not sure if that is a significant American interest though.

Lives saved is a significant humanitarian interest.

Well the Libyan rebels are torturing and maiming to the degree that aide workers couldn't take any more and left this one town because the rebels bringing the tortured prisoners in to be fixed up enough to be tortured again.

Then there was the former Libyan Ambassador to France who had been tortured to death and all his toe nails removed.

This just broke recently that they are ethnically cleansing the population of black migrant workers. This is not "democracy".

Now I'm linking to Alex Jones because it's the first one I grabbed. Human Rights broke the story to the Guardian first though.

Here's what our successful NATO bombing has brought to Libya.

NATO’s New Libya: Rebels cage black Africans in zoo, force feed them flags

March 2, 2012

A shocking video has appeared on the Internet showing Libyan rebels torturing a group of black Africans. People with their hands bound are shown being locked in a zoo-like cage and allegedly forced to eat the old Libyan flag.

Video at link:

“Eat the flag, you dog. Patience you dog, patience. God is Great,” screams a voice off-camera in the video uploaded to YouTube last week, which also made its way onto LiveLeak.com.

The torturers are also shown making the group of captive black Africans stand up with pieces of green cloth still in their mouths and apparently forcing them start jumping.

A number of people are shown standing outside the cage watching the atrocity.

After Muammar Gaddafi was killed, hundreds of migrant workers from neighboring states were imprisoned by fighters allied to the new interim authorities.

They accuse the black Africans of having been mercenaries for the late ruler.

In the course of the fighting to topple Gaddafi last year, sub-Saharan African migrants and refugees “became targets of stigma, discrimination and violence,” the human rights group Amnesty International said last month

Special. What a fabulous humanitarian effort.

Rest of article at link as well:

» NATO’s New Libya: Rebels cage black Africans in zoo, force feed them flags Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[Conservative]

since neither the OP nor anyone else has posted a link to the exact comments by McCain...

John McCain: U.S. should bomb Syria - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com

“Providing military assistance to the Free Syrian Army and other opposition groups is necessary, but at this late hour, that alone will not be sufficient to stop the slaughter and save innocent lives. The only realistic way to do so is with foreign airpower,” McCain, a Vietnam War veteran and the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a speech on the Senate floor.

“Therefore, at the request of [opposition forces], the United States should lead an international effort to protect key population centers in Syria, especially in the north, through airstrikes on Assad’s forces.”

How is this different than what Obama did in regards to Libya?

Answer... it's not.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-19/obama-says-u-s-has-begun-limited-military-action-in-libya-1-.html

“This is not an outcome that the United States or any of our partners sought,” Obama said yesterday in Brasilia, Brazil, where he started a scheduled five-day trip to Latin America. “But we cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people that there will be no mercy.”

“We are answering the calls of a threatened people,” Obama said. “And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world.”

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

While true Tiny, I'm not suggesting regime change as was our goal in Libya. I'm saying we have a duty as human beings to protect those who can't protect themselves.

While we can't help everyone we can help those who a currently involved in some of the worst mass murder since Iraq's kurds.

 

[oreo]

Or are we too stuck on sex, boobs and rubbers to have an opinion yet?

I could agree with a target any tank in a residential area policy as long as its a joint operation. No boots, no invasion, just aerial support for the civilians that are being slaughtered.

Yes I know we have serious money problems but if we stopped trying to teach Afghanistan how to eat with a fork and tie a tie we wouldn't have a problem with it.

Didn't we do just the same thing in Lybia--and that appears to have back-fired on us. They held several American citizens hostage--called them spies--and it looks like Lybia may very well turn into another extremist muslim country.

IOW--we help them out--and they use the weapons we gave them--to turn on us.

It's about time we learned that the middle east is NOT Germany or Japan.

As far as John McCain--he definitely needs to retire. All he knows is WAR. All he wants is WAR.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

since neither the OP nor anyone else has posted a link to the exact comments by McCain...

John McCain: U.S. should bomb Syria - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com

“Providing military assistance to the Free Syrian Army and other opposition groups is necessary, but at this late hour, that alone will not be sufficient to stop the slaughter and save innocent lives. The only realistic way to do so is with foreign airpower,” McCain, a Vietnam War veteran and the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a speech on the Senate floor.

“Therefore, at the request of [opposition forces], the United States should lead an international effort to protect key population centers in Syria, especially in the north, through airstrikes on Assad’s forces.”

How is this different than what Obama did in regards to Libya?

We bombed Libya to depose a dictator. We don't have to do that in Syria. We can protect the people by repelling the tanks. We don't have to keep bombing. A few tanks destroyed and the regime will not want to lose anymore. It's simply not the same kind of madman in control over there.

 

[Avatar4321]

I was quite clear what I thought was the proper position in my op. For you to act as though you're confused about what I think is funny. Please point to where I wasn't clear or to the point.

I have absolutely no reason to act confused. Obviously I misunderstood your point. Im sorry.

 

[Rocko]

haven't heard much about Libya lately. At least a dictator is killing droves of his own people there. Just saying.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's just interesting you didn't mention Libya when it's almost an identical situation, as opposed to Iraq or Afganistan, which you did bring up.

Sovereign rights? there's a civil war going on.

so? The fact that they have internal turmoil does not give us the right to intrude.
would we have been pissed if Mexico had invaded us while our civil war was going on?

When do we have "the right" to invade? Genocide maybe?

That's a good question. What would the invasion entail? Is this a total take over of their government? or is it a military action to protect those who are being killed until we can get them out and relocate them somewhere safe? What degree of force would be appropriate to use?

 

[Conservative]

since neither the OP nor anyone else has posted a link to the exact comments by McCain...

John McCain: U.S. should bomb Syria - Scott Wong - POLITICO.com

“Providing military assistance to the Free Syrian Army and other opposition groups is necessary, but at this late hour, that alone will not be sufficient to stop the slaughter and save innocent lives. The only realistic way to do so is with foreign airpower,” McCain, a Vietnam War veteran and the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a speech on the Senate floor.

“Therefore, at the request of [opposition forces], the United States should lead an international effort to protect key population centers in Syria, especially in the north, through airstrikes on Assad’s forces.”

How is this different than what Obama did in regards to Libya?

We bombed Libya to depose a dictator. We don't have to do that in Syria. We can protect the people by repelling the tanks. We don't have to keep bombing. A few tanks destroyed and the regime will not want to lose anymore. It's simply not the same kind of madman in control over there.

First, to be clear, I am not saying I agree or disagree with McCain.

Second, I am curious as to your military expertise. Which branch did you serve in, and in what capacity? Were you involved in military strategy? Threat assessment?