So...4 gang members attack a guy who is armed with a gun...doesn't end well for them...

[2aguy]

Yes….the crime rate going down was at the same time people were passing concealed carry laws all across the country.

And "pretty much nil" is not comforting to the people who run into violent sociopaths unarmed……then it becomes very Un-"nil."

Like wi who's violent crime rate was going down till they got carry? Or Chicago?

Those of us who aren't paranoid don't worry about nil.

Really? The why do you worry about firearms violence it is almost exclusively an inner city problem. Further you RETARDS claim only close associates kill each other, do you have friends with firearms you are worried about? Since you are not a criminal, and you claim only criminals get targeted for killing why are you worried about firearms at all?

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are aware that crime has been going down for over 30 years right? if you aren't involved in criminal activity your chance of having a run in with a violent sociopath looking to kill you is pretty much nil.

Yes….the crime rate going down was at the same time people were passing concealed carry laws all across the country.

And "pretty much nil" is not comforting to the people who run into violent sociopaths unarmed……then it becomes very Un-"nil."

Like wi who's violent crime rate was going down till they got carry? Or Chicago?

Those of us who aren't paranoid don't worry about nil.

Really? The why do you worry about firearms violence it is almost exclusively an inner city problem. Further you RETARDS claim only close associates kill each other, do you have friends with firearms you are worried about? Since you are not a criminal, and you claim only criminals get targeted for killing why are you worried about firearms at all?

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

I have never suggested anything that would keep guns from the law abiding.

Well except you claim anyone involved in any situation you decides warrants it is a criminal. all with no evidence, no facts and no proof.

 

[koshergrl]

I get the distinct feeling that Brain is a wannabe gang member. That's the only possible explanation for h is insistence that gangs only invade people's houses and shoot male non gang members in the same house because the non gang member DID something to them, or owed them something. Cuz they would NEVER kill someone for not joining

You bring stupid to a new level. That was funny! Bravo

That's nice of you, but you deserve all the credit. It's all you.

 

[Brain357]

Like wi who's violent crime rate was going down till they got carry? Or Chicago?

Those of us who aren't paranoid don't worry about nil.

Really? The why do you worry about firearms violence it is almost exclusively an inner city problem. Further you RETARDS claim only close associates kill each other, do you have friends with firearms you are worried about? Since you are not a criminal, and you claim only criminals get targeted for killing why are you worried about firearms at all?

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

 

[idb]

One of the arguments you hear regularly from the pro-gun crowd is that knives are just as lethal as guns...so if guns are banned so should knives...and hammers...and cars...etc...

The OP seems to be saying the opposite.
Have the talking points changed?

I've watched the gun rights argument pretty closely…who said anything about knives being as lethal as guns….we do point out that people use them to murder more people than with assault rifles, or any long gun….but that isn't saying they are as lethal.

On this very forum but...it looks like those talking points aren't so convenient in this case so they're quietly forgotten...until next time.

 

[2aguy]

Really? The why do you worry about firearms violence it is almost exclusively an inner city problem. Further you RETARDS claim only close associates kill each other, do you have friends with firearms you are worried about? Since you are not a criminal, and you claim only criminals get targeted for killing why are you worried about firearms at all?

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

 

[Brain357]

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

 

[skookerasbil]

Really? The why do you worry about firearms violence it is almost exclusively an inner city problem. Further you RETARDS claim only close associates kill each other, do you have friends with firearms you are worried about? Since you are not a criminal, and you claim only criminals get targeted for killing why are you worried about firearms at all?

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

LOL..........whatever you say s0n!!!


Harvard University.......April 2013........Journal of Law and Public Policy........definitive >>>


More guns = less crimes


Harvard study concludes that gun control does not prevent murders, other violent crime


Heres the entire study >>> http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf



Who's not winning????

 

[skookerasbil]

PS.....gun grabbers have never been as unpopular in America as in 2015!!!

Record number of Americans oppose handgun ban


Politically, they are iReLleVaNt.

 

[Brain357]

Right side of anti-gun loon mouth: Gun-related crime is so bad we need to further restrict the rights of the law abiding!
Left side of anti-gun loon mouth: You want o carry a gun to protect yourself from criminals with guns? You're a paranoid nut!

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

LOL..........whatever you say s0n!!!


Harvard University.......April 2013........Journal of Law and Public Policy........definitive >>>


More guns = less crimes


Harvard study concludes that gun control does not prevent murders, other violent crime


Heres the entire study >>> http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf



Who's not winning????

Your link supports what I am saying dipshit.

While the question of whether or not gun ownership rates have a direct effect on violent crime and suicides will continue to no doubt remain a highly debated topic, the study does bring some interesting points to light. And although the study more strongly indicates that gun control does not reduce crime, it doesn’t necessarily strongly debate that an increase in gun ownership reduces crime either.

 

[2aguy]

Then you have ....crime is so bad we need to disarm regular citizens to control guns.....and

crime is going down so law abiding citizens don't need guns so we may as well just ban them....

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

 

[Brain357]

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

 

[Brain357]

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

 

[2aguy]

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

Sorry…they just passed concealed carry, and they have yet to hit 5% of the population…that, and the fact that in both cities they do not have enough police, the ones who keep a check on most of the crime, is why the crime rate is higher….

And in Chicago, as I have posted in the past, the gangs are electing their own reps. to the City Council and keeping law enforcement from doing it's job.

Armed citizens keep violent thugs in check…especially when they encounter them.

 

[Brain357]

I dont think ownership effects crime rates.

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

Sorry…they just passed concealed carry, and they have yet to hit 5% of the population…that, and the fact that in both cities they do not have enough police, the ones who keep a check on most of the crime, is why the crime rate is higher….

And in Chicago, as I have posted in the past, the gangs are electing their own reps. to the City Council and keeping law enforcement from doing it's job.

Armed citizens keep violent thugs in check…especially when they encounter them.

5% is just a made up number. You have no real support for your claims. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates. If it did as you claim we would have the lowest crime rates I the world.

 

[2aguy]

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

Sorry…they just passed concealed carry, and they have yet to hit 5% of the population…that, and the fact that in both cities they do not have enough police, the ones who keep a check on most of the crime, is why the crime rate is higher….

And in Chicago, as I have posted in the past, the gangs are electing their own reps. to the City Council and keeping law enforcement from doing it's job.

Armed citizens keep violent thugs in check…especially when they encounter them.

5% is just a made up number. You have no real support for your claims. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates. If it did as you claim we would have the lowest crime rates I the world.

Fuck you asshole.

On Firearms, Reporting Obscures the Truth

The article notes that there are now 200,000 carry permit holders in Minnesota, or around five percent of the adult population. It also points out that 19% of permit holders are women.

********************************************

Well, not really. When shall-carry legislation was enacted by the Minnesota legislature in 2003, liberals unanimously predicted that it would lead to a bloodbath. Violent crime, they told us, would skyrocket. But it didn’t happen; on the contrary, the incidence of homicide and other violent crimes dropped steadily.

In the five years ending in 2003, the homicide rate in Minnesota averaged 2.6 per 100,000. In the ten years since the law was liberalized, the rate has averaged 2.0 per 100,000, a 23% decline. Moreover, the rate has dropped further as more carry permits have been issued. In the last five years, the rate has averaged only 1.7 per 100,000, a 35% reduction compared with the 1999-2003 average.

This isn’t opinion, it is arithmetic. The liberals were wrong. Yet it is rare to see this basic fact acknowledged in news reports. The Strib says that “both sides can present statistics and reports to prove their points.” We know what the statistics are on the pro-gun side, and they appear to be conclusive. So what can the anti-gun side offer?

 

[2aguy]

Yes it does...especially for the victim who has a gun to stop the violent sociopath....get about 5% of the population carrying a gun for protection and the criminals get the message.

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

And all the other blue states are in the toilet…..and a link about that would be helpful…as a lefty, there is no reason to trust what you post.

 

[Brain357]

No it doesn't. Many countries with very few guns have much lower crime rates. Many states with lower ownership have lower crime than states with high ownership. The criminal who killed that guy in tx defending himself must not have gotten your message. Why does tx not have much lower crime rates than ca?

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

Sorry…they just passed concealed carry, and they have yet to hit 5% of the population…that, and the fact that in both cities they do not have enough police, the ones who keep a check on most of the crime, is why the crime rate is higher….

And in Chicago, as I have posted in the past, the gangs are electing their own reps. to the City Council and keeping law enforcement from doing it's job.

Armed citizens keep violent thugs in check…especially when they encounter them.

5% is just a made up number. You have no real support for your claims. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates. If it did as you claim we would have the lowest crime rates I the world.

Fuck you asshole.

On Firearms, Reporting Obscures the Truth

The article notes that there are now 200,000 carry permit holders in Minnesota, or around five percent of the adult population. It also points out that 19% of permit holders are women.

********************************************

Well, not really. When shall-carry legislation was enacted by the Minnesota legislature in 2003, liberals unanimously predicted that it would lead to a bloodbath. Violent crime, they told us, would skyrocket. But it didn’t happen; on the contrary, the incidence of homicide and other violent crimes dropped steadily.

In the five years ending in 2003, the homicide rate in Minnesota averaged 2.6 per 100,000. In the ten years since the law was liberalized, the rate has averaged 2.0 per 100,000, a 23% decline. Moreover, the rate has dropped further as more carry permits have been issued. In the last five years, the rate has averaged only 1.7 per 100,000, a 35% reduction compared with the 1999-2003 average.

This isn’t opinion, it is arithmetic. The liberals were wrong. Yet it is rare to see this basic fact acknowledged in news reports. The Strib says that “both sides can present statistics and reports to prove their points.” We know what the statistics are on the pro-gun side, and they appear to be conclusive. So what can the anti-gun side offer?

Crime rates were dropping everywhere.

 

[2aguy]

And many countries with far fewer guns have horrendous gun murder rates. Dittos cities in the United States, the cities with the strictest gun control have the highest gun murder rates.

So gun ownership does not effect crime rates. Please note a gun grabber would say more ownership increases crime. I am stating it does not effect crime rates and the evidence supports that.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

And don't forget the mn economy is doing very well with a liberal governor. A good economy will lower crime.

Studies show that allowing concealed carry lowers the crime rate….Minnesota is proving this, they have just reached 5% of their population carrying guns for self defense, 200,000 people, and their rate is down.

Crime rates were going down in wi and chicago till they got carry. Like the Harvard study says, ownership does not effect crime rates.

Sorry…they just passed concealed carry, and they have yet to hit 5% of the population…that, and the fact that in both cities they do not have enough police, the ones who keep a check on most of the crime, is why the crime rate is higher….

And in Chicago, as I have posted in the past, the gangs are electing their own reps. to the City Council and keeping law enforcement from doing it's job.

Armed citizens keep violent thugs in check…especially when they encounter them.

5% is just a made up number. You have no real support for your claims. Gun ownership does not effect crime rates. If it did as you claim we would have the lowest crime rates I the world.

Fuck you asshole.

On Firearms, Reporting Obscures the Truth

The article notes that there are now 200,000 carry permit holders in Minnesota, or around five percent of the adult population. It also points out that 19% of permit holders are women.

********************************************

Well, not really. When shall-carry legislation was enacted by the Minnesota legislature in 2003, liberals unanimously predicted that it would lead to a bloodbath. Violent crime, they told us, would skyrocket. But it didn’t happen; on the contrary, the incidence of homicide and other violent crimes dropped steadily.

In the five years ending in 2003, the homicide rate in Minnesota averaged 2.6 per 100,000. In the ten years since the law was liberalized, the rate has averaged 2.0 per 100,000, a 23% decline. Moreover, the rate has dropped further as more carry permits have been issued. In the last five years, the rate has averaged only 1.7 per 100,000, a 35% reduction compared with the 1999-2003 average.

This isn’t opinion, it is arithmetic. The liberals were wrong. Yet it is rare to see this basic fact acknowledged in news reports. The Strib says that “both sides can present statistics and reports to prove their points.” We know what the statistics are on the pro-gun side, and they appear to be conclusive. So what can the anti-gun side offer?

Crime rates were dropping everywhere.

As state after state adopted concealed carry laws……...

 

[2aguy]

While police are the main driver of reducing crime rates, keeping victims safe from attackers is the next layer of defense that lowers the crime rate…especially since guns are the most effective way for women to stop rape.

Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise, study claims

The real measure of the deterrent effect of concealed carry permits, according to Lott, is not laws on the books, but the percentage of a given state’s population that holds the permits. In 10 states, more than 8 percent of adults hold concealed carry permits, and all are among the states with the lowest crime rates. Lott claims his group’s analysis shows that each one percentage point increase in the adult population holding permits brings a 1.4 percent drop in the murder rate.

“We found that the size of the drop [in crime] is directly related to the percentage of the population with permits,” Lott said.

Between 2007 and the preliminary estimates for 2013, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.4 per 100,000.