Smoking: Who Cares More about Money than Public Health?

[Soggy in NOLA]

The smoking ban is not to protect the health of the smoker, it's for the non smokers. The difference between alcohol and cigarette smoking is you can't get second hand drunk. Drinking only affects the users health and has no bearing on the people around him/her.

You've obviously never had somebody close to you with an alcohol problem. Alcohol, like drug abuse, affects more than just the abuser.

My father died because he was alcoholic so you're first assumption is way off. Now tell me what affects his or anyones drinking directly has on anyone elses health.

If I have to explain this to you, you'll never get it. Anyhoo... your assertion was that drinking doesn't affect anyone but the drinker.

And you are wrong... and if what you stated were true, you would know better.

 

[Foxfyre]

Tell me what codependency has to do when it comes to complete strangers drinking at a bar. One persons drinking does not affect another. You people will twist arguments any way you can.

Well, 'we people' can read what is written, however, and address the point the other was making rather than reducing them to 'you people' and twisting what they say into something other than what was said.

Soooo......codependency has nothing to do with what we're talking about here?

It was an appropriate response to your post which said:

The smoking ban is not to protect the health of the smoker, it's for the non smokers. The difference between alcohol and cigarette smoking is you can't get second hand drunk. Drinking only affects the users health and has no bearing on the people around him/her.

I addressed what you said directly. And you ignored the argument I made and went into ad hominem non sequitur. That automatically gave me huge points if we were in a formal debate and, unless I screwed up big time, you just scored yourself a loss.

 

[RDD_1210]

You've obviously never had somebody close to you with an alcohol problem. Alcohol, like drug abuse, affects more than just the abuser.

My father died because he was alcoholic so you're first assumption is way off. Now tell me what affects his or anyones drinking directly has on anyone elses health.

If I have to explain this to you, you'll never get it. Anyhoo... your assertion was that drinking doesn't affect anyone but the drinker.

And you are wrong... and if what you stated is true, you would no better.

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

 

[RDD_1210]

Well, 'we people' can read what is written, however, and address the point the other was making rather than reducing them to 'you people' and twisting what they say into something other than what was said.

Soooo......codependency has nothing to do with what we're talking about here?

It was an appropriate response to your post which said:

The smoking ban is not to protect the health of the smoker, it's for the non smokers. The difference between alcohol and cigarette smoking is you can't get second hand drunk. Drinking only affects the users health and has no bearing on the people around him/her.

I addressed what you said directly. And you ignored the argument I made and went into ad hominem non sequitur. That automatically gave me huge points if we were in a formal debate and, unless I screwed up big time, you just scored yourself a loss.

I know what I said. And you brought up codependency, which AGAIN has nothing to do with people who drink in a bar. Unlike smoking in a bar which does affect others. Still waiting for you to explain how codependency comes in to play between total strangers at a bar/restaurant.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

My father died because he was alcoholic so you're first assumption is way off. Now tell me what affects his or anyones drinking directly has on anyone elses health.

If I have to explain this to you, you'll never get it. Anyhoo... your assertion was that drinking doesn't affect anyone but the drinker.

And you are wrong... and if what you stated is true, you would no better.

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Drinking only affects the users health and has no bearing on the people around him/her.

Tell this to the family of someone killed by a drunk driver.

 

[Foxfyre]

If I have to explain this to you, you'll never get it. Anyhoo... your assertion was that drinking doesn't affect anyone but the drinker.

And you are wrong... and if what you stated is true, you would no better.

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

Yeah he didn't read my post either. Just cherry picked a phrase to attack. Makes it pretty futile to continue a discussion doesn't it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

Yeah he didn't read my post either. Just cherry picked a phrase to attack. Makes it pretty futile to continue a discussion doesn't it.

Indeed it does.

 

[RDD_1210]

If I have to explain this to you, you'll never get it. Anyhoo... your assertion was that drinking doesn't affect anyone but the drinker.

And you are wrong... and if what you stated is true, you would no better.

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

 

[The T]

Like some of us couldn't see this one coming from miles away....

Sent to the floor of the Illinois House of Representatives Wednesday was HB1965, a bill that would lift the ban on smoking in all gaming facilities established close to another state that is yet to pass a smoking ban. The provision would sunset if or when that neighboring state decides to ban smoking. Rep. Andre Thapedi, D-Chicago authored and sponsored a similar bill that would have required casinos construct separate, sealed off smoking rooms equipped with ventilation systems. His bill, HB0171, remains in committee, but he says he supports the legislation before the House.

“We are $15 billion dollars in debt, that’s to start,” said Rep. Andre Thapedi, D-Chicago, author and sponsor of the bill, about why it is a good idea to exempt gaming facilities from the ban. “Secondly, people who choose to smoke are going to smoke. It makes no sense from a social analysis and an economic analysis to prohibit people from smoking in a safe way.”

<snip.>

Rep. Jim Durkin, R-Western Springs, supported the 2008 ban, but has changed his stance. Now, he says, consideration comes down to economics.

“The fact of the matter is we are losing revenue,” he said. “People like to smoke when they’re gambling, that is an attraction for individuals. I think we need to be careful when applying things so broadly, we have to consider what kind of impact it is going to have on the industry.”

Fight to Lift Smoking Ban in Casinos, Bars Ignites in Springfield - Bolingbrook, IL Patch

There you have it....After all that paternalistic, finger-wagging crapola about concern for "public health", we find out where the true worship of the almighty buck over "public health" lives; in the ruling class.

That's the way it's always been. At least someone in gubmint has the guts to admit it. If it wasn't cigarettes/tobacco, it would be something else.

I have always wondered what would happen if they taxed tobacco out of existence, what 'cash cow' they'd eyeball next.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

At a bar or restaurant it doesn't. I'm waiting for you to explain that, which is what we're talking about. Not codependency which has nothing to do with this.

Or are you running your mouth again without any actual evidence to back it up?

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

 

[RDD_1210]

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

LOL, you know full well what I mean. You have the entire time, you just wanted to be an asshole about it. Congrats...you did a good job.

 

[The T]

That's not what you said numbnutz. I'd suggest you go back to, I dunno, grammar school and further develop your communication skills.

I'm not going to debate what the meaning of "is" is with you.

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

Woops! (And alot quicker too).

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Anyway, I'd suggest to anyone that is that concerned with their health, stop spending so much time in a bar so that second hand smoke will not be that much of an issue.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

Woops! (And alot quicker too).

None of that waiting 20 years to croak stuff huh?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I didn't realize I had to explain to you that we are talking about smoking/drinking in public places since that's what the topic is about. Are you that dense that I need to hold your hand in every post?

So, I'll explain myself even clearer this time for those of you who are a bit slower.

Drinking IN A BAR/RESTAURANT does not affect others in the BAR/RESTAURANT in the same way that cigarette smoking affects others in a BAR/RESTAURANT. People can not get second hand drunk/sick off of someone elses drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT.

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

LOL, you know full well what I mean. You have the entire time, you just wanted to be an asshole about it. Congrats...you did a good job.

You'll have to forgive me, I live in literal land.

 

[asterism]

Just bars that serve food. It's a decent mix now of bars that allow smoking and bars that don't. BTW, the ban on smoking in restaurants was never put up for a vote nor was it a "public health" issue. It was an issue of "protect the employees." Of course if you head around back of most restaurants you'll see the employees smoking on their breaks.

There used to be 5 Ryan's Steakhouses in our area, now there are none. I think there are only two left in the whole state. Whistle Junction is gone, all of them. 4 International Buffets have closed. 3 IHOPs are gone, the Perkins is gone, all but 1 Waffle House are gone. The two country clubs used to have thriving weekend service and the cigar crowd would retreat to the couch areas after dinner (they had absolutely excellent ventilation systems and zero complaints). They bucked the law claiming it didn't apply to them (because they were private clubs) and had the support of their own employees. But the anti-smoking advocates successfully got the regulators to snuff out the cigars. It turns out that the dynamic changed, and they were no longer trendy and kitschy. Being nothing special anymore, people quit coming as much which made it unprofitable.

Gotta love the regulation that decided it would be better for a waiter to be saved from second hand smoke even if it means they have to find a lower paying job and smoke outside.



Ruby Tuesday used to do as much business at the bar as they did in the restaurant, now it's empty. Outback's bar is only dinner overflow seating now where it used to be one of the places people around here watched Sunday Football. The Applebee's here is 4 months behind on its rent. Places that used to cater to non-smokers are still doing fine, like Olive Garden and Longhorn.

All that being said, I am still opposed to a governmental ban on smoking in bars and restaurants. My feeling is that we should let the business owners make that decision.

Immie

Agreed.

1) Reason for ban: That is right, now that you mention it, I do remember that was the excuse.

2) Aren't you from the Lakeland area? As for local bars/restaurants that have closed, I do not pay a lot of attention to those details... of course, until I go to eat at Ryan's only to find out they too closed down. Of course with today's economy one pretty much figures, it was the economy that got them rather than the smoking ban.

Being unemployed for the time being, it is frustrating to see all the businesses that are gone now days.

3) Applebee's and Beef O'Brady's are the places I think about for Sunday Afternoon Football... um, what will happen to those places should the NFL Season be canceled? Damn! More competition on the unemployment line.

Immie

2. Yup. However it wasn't the economy that killed them, they were on the way during the peak in 2006-2007. Empty tables mostly due to people either choosing to stay home or going somewhere else. Different stroke for different folks, and smokers enjoyed having a cigarette inside with some pie and coffee after a meal. Non-smokers who were bothered by this had plenty of alternatives. Olive Garden in this area went smoke free in the 1990s to provide just that alternative.

3. It's gonna hurt them, that's true. The restaurant business is fickle, and it runs mostly on trends and habits. Once something forces a change in habit, that's the end. Extremely low margin businesses are always susceptible to this dynamic.

As for Casinos, I've been to 4 this year. Hard Rock in Tampa, the Rio, Bellagio, and Imperial Palace in Vegas. I never saw a full row of slots nor a full table game in any of the smoke free areas even when the general areas were completely slammed except for New Year's Eve at the Hard Rock when the whole place was completely packed (come to think of it, I smoked at a non-smoking table and nobody said anything, I just chose to not light another one when I noticed the sign). The poker room at the Hard Rock went smoke free a few years ago before it was closed for renovation. It went from an hour wait to almost half full before it closed. I don't know if smoking is allowed in the new room now but I know there wasn't a waiting list at all on Tuesday night.

I get that many non-smokers prefer these rules, however I wonder where their beliefs in "freedom" and "choice" have gone when they advocate lack of choice and freedom as long as it's a decision they prefer. I mean we have literally legislated some businesses out of existence - not the perfectly legal activity, just the notion of a business catering to those who choose to partake.

 

[The T]

It always helps when you say what you actually mean.

BTW... You could get very dead as a result of someone's drinking habits in a BAR/RESTAURANT. It happens every day.

Woops! (And alot quicker too).

None of that waiting 20 years to croak stuff huh?

My meaning is that some idiot gets tanked and behind the wheel...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Woops! (And alot quicker too).

None of that waiting 20 years to croak stuff huh?

My meaning is that some idiot gets tanked and behind the wheel...

Precisely... arguing that someone who goes out and gets drunk never affects anyone else is silly. I could have been less of a dick about it, but I can't resist when the libs who always tell us how much smarter, how much more enlightened they are than us neanderthals... and then they post this incoherent drivel that requires reading between 30 lines just to glean the meaning.

 

[asterism]

If the government really cared about our health they would ban alcohol, white bread, white rice, processed sugar, any produce from any country known to utilize certain pesticides or unsanitary conditions, any meat with more than 5% fat content, french fries--essentially all deep fried foods--all saturated fat, all trans fat, all sugared drinks, all products containing caffeine, and mandate that restaurants could not serve more than 8 oz of any meat product.

If the government really cared we could have one of the healthiest and most miserable societies on Earth.

If progressives who think casual exposure to second hand smoke is bad were really concerned about public health they would ban "the pill."

Oral Contraceptives and Cancer Risk: Q & A - National Cancer Institute