Smoking, Trans fats, and terrorists

[Shogun]

Just curious...what makes you think that the government couldn't arrest you, and deny you habeus for 4 years and hold you in jail?

Because im not out conspiring to kill Americans. Is it really that hard for you to understand the significance of their GUILT? So, what other examples of Americans losing HC do you have? Traffic stops? Shoplifitng? Rape? what, anything NOT related to the specific threat of terrorist behaviour? Humor me and let me know just what kind of actions, outside of trying to kill Americans, will send the black ops after me? Clearly, talking shit on the internet hasn't yet. Praytell.



When have I been hating Bush? Oh right saying he did something wrong automatically makes me a Bush-hater. Well have fun sucking bush's cock and remember to wash out your mouth afterwards.

ahhhh, THERE it is... the profound motivation that will make you as significant as a blowjob cryer this side of 1998. Good job!




I'm sorry...when did I say we should let him go? Oh wait, I didn't. Thats another LIE. And you want to talk about facts Shogun? How bout we talk about how you keep LYING and can't seem to actually recognize what I am actually saying. Instead you just keep making shit up.

b-b-b-b-but his RIGHTS! he can't practice his FAITH by killing 'mericans! a-a-a-and our ebil government held him prisoner before he was CONVICTED! oh nooooezzz...

Indeed, i've got you tapdancing into a backspin and all you can do is cry that im not playing fair?

I've read what you have said, dude. Maybe the clown union agrees that guilt is less important than HC, despite historic precedence no less, but do keep crying about how IM lying while suggesting that Padilla has any reflection on the rest of America regarding the charge that "Americans lost HC". It's probably not rich to see you cry uncle like this.


Again, when did I say this? Oh wait, another LIE.


is that bottom lip quivering yet?



Considering the level of debate you are engaging in and the constant lies, any judgement about me coming from you doesn't pass the laugh test, much less cause me to think its true. In fact its actually evidence against it.

Indeed, and if it were not also true that you've been peppered with the same type of condemnation from more than a couple other local peeps then my criticism might just be like water off of your ducks back.. As it is....

 

[Shogun]

Oh right...because he was an expert in psychology and mental illness and really knew how to fool those guys.

yup.. it takes a fucking MASTERMIND to act retarded! Hell, look at you..

And, it's probably NOT true that "experts" are a dime a dozen in the courtroom. Nope, it takes a proverbial fucking LEx Luther to pull that one off!



Another non-sequiter. You want to bluster on about how the facts are inconvenient to me, why don't you stop lying?

Why don't you stop trying to avoid uncomfortable realities, dude? The FACTS remain that disillusioned fucks have conspired against the US. Cry me a fucking river if someone who hates the US enough to conspire to kill Americans is disqualified from the full range of liberties and rights the rest of us bomb fodder enjoy.

Now, tell me again how making sure Timmy has access to HC was more important than his guild in blowing up Americans.


With the government denying him his rights? Nothing at all.

oh, you mean like the right to religious freedom to enact a "DEFENSIVE JIHAD"? oh.. no.. not THAT right.. duh..



Wait, didn't I already ask you to tell me why providing him with HB would have caused him to walk the streets?


Gosh, Tex... I bet "experts" and technicalities NEVER put criminals back on the streets... Yup.. that's just a figment of a D.A.'s imagination...


Once you do that, please also provide the evidence that he would kill babies.
Thanks.


Well, to we that are not fanbois of the Tim Mcveigh type I'd say that his conviction to conspire to kill Americans goes a long way as evidence.. You know, as opposed to your evidence that joe average american is in danger of pissing off the modern gestapo and risks a military gulag for speeding..

 

[Shogun]

I think the U.S. Supreme Court got this one right. They didn't make the decision in the Padilla case, though, which was sent down on a technicality.

But in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld the Court said the government cannot arrest a U.S. citizen and then hold them indefinitely just because they designate them an enemy combatant. They have to provide due process.

That's a simplification, but basically that was it.

I wonder if Hamdi v Rumsfeld has ANY application on Joe q Public who are not out trying to conspire to kill anyone...

 

[Steerpike]

I wonder if Hamdi v Rumsfeld has ANY application on Joe q Public who are not out trying to conspire to kill anyone...

Well, theoretically you are innocent until proven guilty. The government can't deprive you of your rights on the basis that you are conspiring to kill people until they've proven that you are conspiring to kill people. Of course, there is some leeway there to keep people locked up while the judicial process is crawling forward, but there are rules to keep it moving because the idea is that up until the jury verdict comes in they're holding a legally innocent person.

But I'm not fond of the idea that the government can lock someone up indefinitely, never charge them, never have to prove anything about their activities, etc. That's too easy to abuse. If they have enough evidence to justify locking you up and not letting you out, then they need to present that evidence in court of law and get a guilty verdict.

 

[Larkinn]

Just curious...what makes you think that the government couldn't arrest you, and deny you habeus for 4 years and hold you in jail?

Because im not out conspiring to kill Americans.

LMFAO...and the government didn't prove that until AFTER that had happened. So, since they don't need to PROVE it, what makes you think it can't happen to you?

Is it really that hard for you to understand the significance of their GUILT?

The significant is NONE.

So, what other examples of Americans losing HC do you have? Traffic stops? Shoplifitng? Rape? what, anything NOT related to the specific threat of terrorist behaviour? Humor me and let me know just what kind of actions, outside of trying to kill Americans, will send the black ops after me? Clearly, talking shit on the internet hasn't yet. Praytell.

So you think trying to kill Americans can remove the HB? So the government can round up anyone who looks like they are in a gang in LA? Throw them in jail?

Fucking ludicrous.

ahhhh, THERE it is... the profound motivation that will make you as significant as a blowjob cryer this side of 1998. Good job!

I was mocking you, genius. I guess the humour was a bit too complex for you to understand.

b-b-b-b-but his RIGHTS! he can't practice his FAITH by killing 'mericans! a-a-a-and our ebil government held him prisoner before he was CONVICTED! oh nooooezzz...

This is relevant, how exactly? Oh wait, its NOT. As I said before this is an incorrect argument YOU are asserting, nobody else. Please don't ascribe to me the idiotic arguments you think up.

Indeed, i've got you tapdancing into a backspin and all you can do is cry that im not playing fair?

LMFAO...tapdancing into a backspin? Right thats what its called when I call you out on LIES. LMAO...man you are one deluded idiot.

I've read what you have said, dude.

Then care to explain why you keep bringing in the religion claim, acting as if I've made it, pretending that I've said that Padilla could go free, or the other LIES you keep perpetrating?

Maybe the clown union agrees that guilt is less important than HC, despite historic precedence no less

Guilt is IRRELEVANT to HC, since until you have a trial you don't know if the person is guilty or not .

, but do keep crying about how IM lying while suggesting that Padilla has any reflection on the rest of America regarding the charge that "Americans lost HC". It's probably not rich to see you cry uncle like this.

He does have a reflection on the rest of America. He IS American. Despite the fact that you wish you could remove his citizenship, HE IS AN AMERICAN AND HAS AND DESERVES ALL THE RIGHTS UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION. PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. THAT is what being an American is about.

is that bottom lip quivering yet?

LMAO...You think I would cry because you have to resort to lies to even make a halfway coherent argument? I'm enjoying you backpedal and dance around and LIE and make shit up. This is hilarious.

Indeed, and if it were not also true that you've been peppered with the same type of condemnation from more than a couple other local peeps then my criticism might just be like water off of your ducks back.. As it is....

Shining pillars of the community like RGS...oh wait he thinks you are an idiot as well, now doesn't he?

Gee, wait...you mean as a liberal the conservatives here might not love me? I'm shocked Shogun....absolutely shocked that arguing against the mainstream on an internet political forum doesn't get me a standing ovation.

 

[Ravi]

I think the U.S. Supreme Court got this one right. They didn't make the decision in the Padilla case, though, which was sent down on a technicality.

But in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld the Court said the government cannot arrest a U.S. citizen and then hold them indefinitely just because they designate them an enemy combatant. They have to provide due process.

That's a simplification, but basically that was it.

You mean I've been arguing with Shogun over nothing?

lol!

It is interesting to know that people would rather give up their rights to due process than their right to have a smoke, though.

 

[Larkinn]

Oh right...because he was an expert in psychology and mental illness and really knew how to fool those guys.

yup.. it takes a fucking MASTERMIND to act retarded! Hell, look at you..

Actually it takes someone who knows a fair amount about mental illness. But keep on lyin there boy.

And, it's probably NOT true that "experts" are a dime a dozen in the courtroom. Nope, it takes a proverbial fucking LEx Luther to pull that one off!

So why doesn't it happen in all murder cases? Oh wait, because its NOT easy to pull off.

Why don't you stop trying to avoid uncomfortable realities, dude? The FACTS remain that disillusioned fucks have conspired against the US.

Oh, well that proves your point. No, wait thats a point that is irrelevant and we both agree on which again has NO bearing on the governments denial of HB.

Cry me a fucking river if someone who hates the US enough to conspire to kill Americans is disqualified from the full range of liberties and rights the rest of us bomb fodder enjoy.

But wait...you don't know that they conspired until they are proven guilty. Which, if they are dnied HB, they won't be. THAT is the problem.

Now, tell me again how making sure Timmy has access to HC was more important than his guild in blowing up Americans.

Another incoherent sentence.

oh, you mean like the right to religious freedom to enact a "DEFENSIVE JIHAD"? oh.. no.. not THAT right.. duh..

Thats not a right. Thats something his defense lawyers tried and failed, rightfully so. Which you are supporting, for reasons beyond understanding. Try focusing on the issues I am arguing, not the ones you wish I was arguing.

Gosh, Tex... I bet "experts" and technicalities NEVER put criminals back on the streets... Yup.. that's just a figment of a D.A.'s imagination...

Padilla isn't an ordinary criminal, as you've pointed out about 50 times. Or is he when it suits you? Tsk...these facts you keep pointing out seem to be destroying your case much more than mine.

Regardless, I asked for evidence that PADILLA would be put back on the streets. Not for evidence that it happens sometimes.

Well, to we that are not fanbois of the Tim Mcveigh type I'd say that his conviction to conspire to kill Americans goes a long way as evidence.. You know, as opposed to your evidence that joe average american is in danger of pissing off the modern gestapo and risks a military gulag for speeding..

So care to tell me how many people babies David Hicks has killed since being released?

 

[Larkinn]

I wonder if Hamdi v Rumsfeld has ANY application on Joe q Public who are not out trying to conspire to kill anyone...

Hamdi hasn't shown to have been guilty of trying to kill anyone. Ouch....how are you going to spin that one, Shogun?

 

[Shogun]

LMFAO...and the government didn't prove that until AFTER that had happened. So, since they don't need to PROVE it, what makes you think it can't happen to you?

um, because i dont have email addresses of known terrorists? WHY would the government single this guy out? How is scapegoating this ONE guy going to solve any problems? In all actuality, the Fed was probably pretty fucking sensitive to the potential of terrorism after 9/11 and it doesn't take, uh, lex luther to figure out their motivation in retaining Padilla. And, given the result of the trial that he eventually enjoyed I'm not willing to lose any sleep because a terrorist had to spend 4 year at gitmo instead of scheming to blow motherfuckers up.

silly me.


The significant is NONE.


The rest of America disagree with your wannabe nihilist opinion. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, dude.. at least it's an ethos.

Indeed, it's pretty fucking damning that he wasn't as innocently picked on like your kind would imply. I guess this is the problem with letting demagoguery get in the way of your common sense.



So you think trying to kill Americans can remove the HB? So the government can round up anyone who looks like they are in a gang in LA? Throw them in jail?

Fucking ludicrous.

Yea, it's so fucking CRAZY that this very same thing has happened quite a few times in our history.. but, you know what kind of a fucking dominant fascist that Abe Lincoln was!







I was mocking you, genius. I guess the humour was a bit too complex for you to understand.

is that what you call humor? You should probably quit your day job and take that schtick on the road! for real, you ARE the next Bill Hicks!


This is relevant, how exactly? Oh wait, its NOT. As I said before this is an incorrect argument YOU are asserting, nobody else. Please don't ascribe to me the idiotic arguments you think up.


So, HC is a right worth preserving.... but the religious freedom of the first amendment is NOT???? WOW. You should really lecture people on picking and choosing applicable Constitutional standards, man. Your consistency is STAGGERING. Hell, criminals who try to use the "DEFENSIVE JIHAD" probably WERE NOT going to go out and kill 'mericans! And his RIGHTS, man.. His guilt means NOTHING if he does not have his RIGHTS!





LMFAO...tapdancing into a backspin? Right thats what its called when I call you out on LIES. LMAO...man you are one deluded idiot.


Hey, IM not the one who thinks that Jose Padilla's treatment means that the black ops are on their way into our American lives.. But yes, save as much face and you need to, ya net-martyr you. Indeed, the guy screaming that our American sky is falling since a guilty Padilla was held at gitmo should probably be calling others deluded...




Then care to explain why you keep bringing in the religion claim, acting as if I've made it, pretending that I've said that Padilla could go free, or the other LIES you keep perpetrating?


Hey, religious freedom is his RIGHT! Guilt is not important, RIGHT? It's the application of his RIGHTS that we must preserve?? Poor guy, you don't even realize that i've had you check mated 7 posts ago, do you?



Guilt is IRRELEVANT to HC, since until you have a trial you don't know if the person is guilty or not .


Yea, i know.. I was TOTALLY expecting an eleventh hour one armed man to grace the courtroom at Timmy's trial.. Yup. Jose was just learning arabic, dude! You know how "kill the infidels" are wonderful phonetic tools.


He does have a reflection on the rest of America. He IS American. Despite the fact that you wish you could remove his citizenship, HE IS AN AMERICAN AND HAS AND DESERVES ALL THE RIGHTS UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION. PERIOD. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. THAT is what being an American is about.

No, what being an American is all about is following the Constitution. A constitution that I notice you don't address when waving a predictable banner. I suggest you put down the xbox controller and learn some history before making stupid statements like that. I'd start with discovering how often, and for what reasons, HC has been suspended in the past.



LMAO...You think I would cry because you have to resort to lies to even make a halfway coherent argument? I'm enjoying you backpedal and dance around and LIE and make shit up. This is hilarious.


Yea, it's probably real funny being bitchslapped at every turn in this thread... Hey, don't let Ravir see those tears streaking down your cheek.. he may not join in on the "guilt is not important" chant if you do.


Shining pillars of the community like RGS...oh wait he thinks you are an idiot as well, now doesn't he?

RGS is the only person to laugh at your posts? Gosh, NOW who is fibbing.


Gee, wait...you mean as a liberal the conservatives here might not love me? I'm shocked Shogun....absolutely shocked that arguing against the mainstream on an internet political forum doesn't get me a standing ovation.


Are you really going to insist that only conservatives have lambasted your input?

thats fucking awesome to an exponential degree!

Yes, you ARE the everyman putting your shoulder to the wheel of a big evil mainstream conspiracy, lemme tellya!

 

[Shogun]

Actually it takes someone who knows a fair amount about mental illness. But keep on lyin there boy.

Yea, it's so fucking crazy that NO ONE on death row EVER tries to recreate a ken kesey novel!

John Hinkley was an EXPERT on mental illness too! Hell, congressional reaction to his successful excuse for presidential assassination was probably because the house and senate just HATES retarded people.

yup!



No, it doesn't take a fair amount of knowledge since, again, "experts" can say what they are paid to say and the soft-science field of Psych has never been much of a solid indication anywhich way. But, don't let that keep you from pretending it takes a criminal mastermind to plead insanity.



So why doesn't it happen in all murder cases? Oh wait, because its NOT easy to pull off.

uh, because that pesky little thing we call EVIDENCE pops it's little angry head into this thing we call reality?

For real, dude.. If I'm picking on you too much just say so.



Oh, well that proves your point. No, wait thats a point that is irrelevant and we both agree on which again has NO bearing on the governments denial of HB.

Yea, it sure is fucking irrelevant to consider the reality of disillusioned fucks plotting against the US. Yup, like GUILT im sure, it's totally irrelevant too.


But wait...you don't know that they conspired until they are proven guilty. Which, if they are dnied HB, they won't be. THAT is the problem.

Padilla was given a trial. He wasn't given a civilian trial and didn't get it in the timeframe that your bush-hating ass is insisting upon. Thats ok because the results have, weather you like it or not, vindicated his tenure at gitmo. Now, HERE YOU ARE pretending that Jose Padilla has ANY refelction on John Q public's right to HC. When, in fact, Padilla's crime is so far from the realm of common criminal behavour that i truly is rich fucking irony that you call anyone delusional. Padilla didn't set precedence to watch for black 'copters. It may sound good to wave that banner at your bush hating wank fest but, I assure you, the claim that we are all losing our rights to HC is beyond retarded and is in no way burdened with reality.



Another incoherent sentence.


how convenient.. Hey, maybe you can call it a non-sequiter instead of addressing the fact of Mcveigh's pre-court date guilt, eh?

clearly, you are not dancing.



Thats not a right. Thats something his defense lawyers tried and failed, rightfully so. Which you are supporting, for reasons beyond understanding. Try focusing on the issues I am arguing, not the ones you wish I was arguing.

It's a fact of his trial. I don't care if considering such pokes holes in your position like a hot stream of piss through a snowman but THAT is what we here in the real world call facts. YOU may not think it is indicative of anything, much like guilt apparently, but you won't be the first demagogue who ends up hating evidence that mutes their cry for attention.


Padilla isn't an ordinary criminal, as you've pointed out about 50 times. Or is he when it suits you? Tsk...these facts you keep pointing out seem to be destroying your case much more than mine.

neither was OJ Simpson an ordinary criminal.. But, we see where THAt went, didnt we? Are you going to suggest that "experts" cant be found to argue whatever is needed? I wouldn't put it past you.

poor lil cuss.


Regardless, I asked for evidence that PADILLA would be put back on the streets. Not for evidence that it happens sometimes.

happens sometimes.. If the glove don't fit then you must aquit, eh dude?



Hey, if you want to ignore precedence then so be it. Maybe you can work in some legal cases into your Abe Lincoln learning hour.


So care to tell me how many people babies David Hicks has killed since being released?

He's only been out for less than 6 months. Give it some time.

 

[Shogun]

You mean I've been arguing with Shogun over nothing?

lol!

It is interesting to know that people would rather give up their rights to due process than their right to have a smoke, though.

If only those who are in danger of losing HC are the ones out trying to kill Americans then, im betting, less people have given up as much as you'd suggest.



After all, we see criminals everywhere disappearing into political camps!




It's hilarious that the litmus test of a falling sky is.... a convicted terrorist.

 

[Shogun]

Hamdi hasn't shown to have been guilty of trying to kill anyone. Ouch....how are you going to spin that one, Shogun?

indeed, the very type of technicality previously mentioned.


I wonder if he was versed enough in psych to pretend to be insane if that didn't work. After all, being detained after fighting with the taliban in Afghanistan probably makes him a trustworthy fella!

 

[Larkinn]

um, because i dont have email addresses of known terrorists? WHY would the government single this guy out? How is scapegoating this ONE guy going to solve any problems?

Fuck if I know. But I don't trust the government to suspect constitutional rights except in times of extreme emergency. Apparently you are gullible enough to just sign over your rights for "protection". Good luck with that.

In all actuality, the Fed was probably pretty fucking sensitive to the potential of terrorism after 9/11 and it doesn't take, uh, lex luther to figure out their motivation in retaining Padilla. And, given the result of the trial that he eventually enjoyed I'm not willing to lose any sleep because a terrorist had to spend 4 year at gitmo instead of scheming to blow motherfuckers up.

silly me.

He got a trial in the end because the USSC was going to force Bush to give him one. And they weren't allowed to hold him in Gitmo.

The rest of America disagree with your wannabe nihilist opinion. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, dude.. at least it's an ethos.

There is nothing nihilistic about my opinion, wannabe or otherwise. And no, the rest of America does NOT disagree with my opinion. The rather conservative USSC agrees with my opinion, actually. So do a wide variety of people from all across the political spectrum.

Indeed, it's pretty fucking damning that he wasn't as innocently picked on like your kind would imply.

Its damning that something I've never implied isn't true? Perhaps in your bizarro world, but I live in reality, bucko.

I guess this is the problem with letting demagoguery get in the way of your common sense.

You seem to have no problem with letting that happen to you, unfortunately.

Yea, it's so fucking CRAZY that this very same thing has happened quite a few times in our history.. but, you know what kind of a fucking dominant fascist that Abe Lincoln was!

Read the Constitution, genius. There are times when it can be revoked, this isn't one of them.

is that what you call humor? You should probably quit your day job and take that schtick on the road! for real, you ARE the next Bill Hicks!

Wait, you don't think me mocking you is amusing? What a surprise.

So, HC is a right worth preserving.... but the religious freedom of the first amendment is NOT????

Both are worth preserving within limits. There is no precedent, nor any reason, to allow people to kill others in the US for religious reasons.

Hey, IM not the one who thinks that Jose Padilla's treatment means that the black ops are on their way into our American lives

Sorry when did I say that? Oh right, another LIE. By the way, this is the 6th or 7th time I've called you out on LIES. Going to either defend yourself or just skip past them on your merry way while you spout more bullshit?

But yes, save as much face and you need to, ya net-martyr you. Indeed, the guy screaming that our American sky is falling since a guilty Padilla was held at gitmo should probably be calling others deluded...

Actually he was an innocent Padilla at that time. We have a little thing in this country called "innocent until proven guilty". Maybe you've heard of it? Its part of America, a country you seem to want to destroy.

Oh, and get your facts straight. Padilla was held in a military brig, not in Gitmo.

Hey, religious freedom is his RIGHT! Guilt is not important, RIGHT? It's the application of his RIGHTS that we must preserve?? Poor guy, you don't even realize that i've had you check mated 7 posts ago, do you?

Sorry, where in the Constitution does it say your religion allows you do whatever you want? Oh wait, it doesn't.

By the way, if you were kicking my ass in this debate so badly, you wouldn't need to proclaim how much you were winning in every single post.

No, what being an American is all about is following the Constitution.

Which HC is a part of.

A constitution that I notice you don't address when waving a predictable banner. I suggest you put down the xbox controller and learn some history before making stupid statements like that. I'd start with discovering how often, and for what reasons, HC has been suspended in the past.

That it was done in the past does NOT make it legal. This is the stupidest argument I've ever heard.

Yea, it's probably real funny being bitchslapped at every turn in this thread... Hey, don't let Ravir see those tears streaking down your cheek.. he may not join in on the "guilt is not important" chant if you do.

See above.

RGS is the only person to laugh at your posts? Gosh, NOW who is fibbing.

You are. Did I say RGS was the only person to laugh at my posts? No, I didn't. But nice lie. Again.

 

[Larkinn]

So why doesn't it happen in all murder cases? Oh wait, because its NOT easy to pull off. [/B]

uh, because that pesky little thing we call EVIDENCE pops it's little angry head into this thing we call reality?

For real, dude.. If I'm picking on you too much just say so.

EVIDENCE, which they cited in the case. No, do keep trying Shogun. Its really quite pathetic to see you dance.

Yea, it sure is fucking irrelevant to consider the reality of disillusioned fucks plotting against the US. Yup, like GUILT im sure, it's totally irrelevant too.

Irrelevant to this case? Yes, it really is.

Padilla was given a trial. He wasn't given a civilian trial and didn't get it in the timeframe that your bush-hating ass is insisting upon.

Learn the facts, son. He was given a civilian trial, and got it after the timeframe. And as much as you want to insist, this has nothing to do with Bush. But do keep trying to pin it on that. Its amusing to see what your arguments boil down too.

Thats ok because the results have, weather you like it or not, vindicated his tenure at gitmo.

No, they haven't. Jesus, its pathetic that you don't get this.

Now, HERE YOU ARE pretending that Jose Padilla has ANY refelction on John Q public's right to HC. When, in fact, Padilla's crime is so far from the realm of common criminal behavour that i truly is rich fucking irony that you call anyone delusional.

Oh, well, if Shogun decides that its "special" then we can remove HC. Thats a really great standard.

Padilla didn't set precedence to watch for black 'copters. It may sound good to wave that banner at your bush hating wank fest but, I assure you, the claim that we are all losing our rights to HC is beyond retarded and is in no way burdened with reality.

Are you an American? Can the government with terrorism and not provide any evidence that the charge is true? You've lost your right to HC. Its as simple as that. Cowards like you are what allowed the holocaust to happen, you expect that the government can do no wrong and that its all good if shit ain't happening to you.

how convenient.. Hey, maybe you can call it a non-sequiter instead of addressing the fact of Mcveigh's pre-court date guilt, eh?

clearly, you are not dancing.

Not really convenient, more annoying actually. Try speaking clearly.

It's a fact of his trial.

Its also a fact of his trial that it was appealed several times. DOesn't make it relevant.

I don't care if considering such pokes holes in your position like a hot stream of piss through a snowman but THAT is what we here in the real world call facts.

Actually it pokes no holes in my position. To think so is beyond absurd.

YOU may not think it is indicative of anything, much like guilt apparently, but you won't be the first demagogue who ends up hating evidence that mutes their cry for attention.

Oh, well its relevant and "pokes holes" cause Shogun says its so. Shogun who has LIED over and over during this debate. Right

neither was OJ Simpson an ordinary criminal.. But, we see where THAt went, didnt we? Are you going to suggest that "experts" cant be found to argue whatever is needed? I wouldn't put it past you.

poor lil cuss.

Actually OJ was an ordinary criminal.

happens sometimes.. If the glove don't fit then you must aquit, eh dude?

Oh, well thats great evidence. "we must suspend HC" "why?" "cause sometimes people go free...and...stuff....".

Hey, if you want to ignore precedence then so be it. Maybe you can work in some legal cases into your Abe Lincoln learning hour.

Historical precedence doesn't count for much. Legal precedence does. I'm sure someone with your learning capabilities can understand the difference if you spend enough time on it.

He's only been out for less than 6 months. Give it some time.

LMFAO...right.

 

[Larkinn]

If only those who are in danger of losing HC are the ones out trying to kill Americans then, im betting, less people have given up as much as you'd suggest.

And you know this how? Oh right because people are guilty cause the government says so. Awesome standard.

 

[Larkinn]

indeed, the very type of technicality previously mentioned.

Ah yes, which must be why he is wandering the streets. No, wait, he is still in jail isn't he. Guess your little technicality argument is a bit shit then, ain't it

I wonder if he was versed enough in psych to pretend to be insane if that didn't work. After all, being detained after fighting with the taliban in Afghanistan probably makes him a trustworthy fella!

Why bother with a trial at all, eh? Why not just execute him. And since OJ isn't an "ordinary criminal" execute him too...and really anyone who is a murderer, eh?

As I said, you are a fucking fascist.

 

[Shogun]

Fuck if I know. But I don't trust the government to suspect constitutional rights except in times of extreme emergency. Apparently you are gullible enough to just sign over your rights for "protection". Good luck with that.


exactly.. the FUCK if you know. Your lack of trust means two things: jack and shit. given the reality of 9/11 versus the fabrication of your 1984 fantasy I'll go ahead and give credit to the actual threat rather than your silly, childish foot stomping tantrum.


He got a trial in the end because the USSC was going to force Bush to give him one. And they weren't allowed to hold him in Gitmo.

and, yet, at the end of the day.. he was found... say it with me.. GUILTY.

Indeed, quite the fucking robin hood figure you've got there.


There is nothing nihilistic about my opinion, wannabe or otherwise. And no, the rest of America does NOT disagree with my opinion. The rather conservative USSC agrees with my opinion, actually. So do a wide variety of people from all across the political spectrum.

yea, there sure is nothing nihilistic about automatically distrusting the gov when they are out trying to keep your stupid ass from becoming the next bomb fodder for disillusioned fucks who, similarly, hate this nation. Indeed, you ARE the true patriot. Yea, you sure ARE the majority opinion in America when it comes to cases like Padilla!


Its damning that something I've never implied isn't true? Perhaps in your bizarro world, but I live in reality, bucko.

HA! Yea, I can see that by the evidence peppered throughout your posts! Now, don't forget to take your meds today.. We don't want to have to confiscate your trenchcoat again.


You seem to have no problem with letting that happen to you, unfortunately.

profound response! Gosh, I've been bested with the wit of the GODS.


Read the Constitution, genius. There are times when it can be revoked, this isn't one of them.


uhh, according to.. YOU? Gee, skippy... Having YOU state as much carries so much water in an ocean of opinions! Shit, why weren't we asking for YOUR opinion the day after 9/11?? Folly, I tellya... Next time we'll have to ask WWLD before taking history into context!


Wait, you don't think me mocking you is amusing? What a surprise.

I'd laugh if what you offered was actually comedic instead of pathetic. You are like Mike Richards wondering how calling a black member of his audience a ****** IS NOT HILARIOUS to the BONE... Indeed, if this is the apex of your ability to mock someone then I'd better tone it down a notch or two and play fair.



Both are worth preserving within limits. There is no precedent, nor any reason, to allow people to kill others in the US for religious reasons.

OH NOW we've got to apoint where you admit that there are LIMITS... ahhh... gotcha. I guess the nation should accept YOUR opinion on where to draw the line in the sand then? You mean there is no precedent on the first like, uh, THERE IS IN SUSPENDING HC?

Like I said, dude.. you don't even know that i've had you check mated 10 posts ago.



Sorry when did I say that? Oh right, another LIE. By the way, this is the 6th or 7th time I've called you out on LIES. Going to either defend yourself or just skip past them on your merry way while you spout more bullshit?

Hey, which of is is the one insisting that Padilla's case is the first chuck of sky falling to the ground regarding the rights of AMERICANS? Oh yea, that would be you. Poor guy... I mean, if you are going to defend a position maybe you should have the balls to do so even while having your ass handed to you... Just a thought.


Actually he was an innocent Padilla at that time. We have a little thing in this country called "innocent until proven guilty". Maybe you've heard of it? Its part of America, a country you seem to want to destroy.

Given which of us is defending the TERRORIST you might wanna limit the "you want to destroy america" joke to your circle jerk chomsky wannabe friends. I know, I know... Abe Lincoln sure was a fucking eeeevil fascist!



Oh, and get your facts straight. Padilla was held in a military brig, not in Gitmo.


Oh well hey, NOW you proved your point! Gosh, that changes EVERYTHING! Hell yea it's perfectly clear that the Bush admit is JUST LIKE NAZIS now that you cleared that up..





Sorry, where in the Constitution does it say your religion allows you do whatever you want? Oh wait, it doesn't.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Poor guy.... It's probably STILL a total mystery why Padilla tried to use a DEFENSIVE JIHAD defense.... Clearly, watching you split hairs over the first amendment while crying like a bitch about HC, despite historic precedence no less, is not a giant bowl of hilarity!


By the way, if you were kicking my ass in this debate so badly, you wouldn't need to proclaim how much you were winning in every single post.

It's the salt in your wound, dude. Nice dime-store psych you've got there though... It must impress all the hairy little deadhead chicks who are too stoned to see how shallow your "deepness" really is.

Which HC is a part of.

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

so is this.





That it was done in the past does NOT make it legal. This is the stupidest argument I've ever heard.


uh, yea.. precedence sure is RETARDED!

Lincoln was a fucking WAR CRIMINAL!


You are. Did I say RGS was the only person to laugh at my posts? No, I didn't. But nice lie. Again.

You just asserted that RGS is the only person that I was talking about regarding laughing at your silly little posts... Indeed, you should proabbly call MORE people liars with honestly like that, buddy!

 

[manifold]

Were you randis in a previous life?

 

[Shogun]

EVIDENCE, which they cited in the case. No, do keep trying Shogun. Its really quite pathetic to see you dance.

Whose dancing here, genius? Have you figured out how funny it was to see you suggest that it takes some kind of expertise in Psych to us an insanity plea yet?




Irrelevant to this case? Yes, it really is.

HA!

Oh I KNOW... just like the red scare was IRRELEVANT in putting the Rosenbergs to death!...



hilarious.



Learn the facts, son. He was given a civilian trial, and got it after the timeframe. And as much as you want to insist, this has nothing to do with Bush. But do keep trying to pin it on that. Its amusing to see what your arguments boil down too.

Oh yea... blaming bush for suspending HC in a post 9/11 effort to keep killers from attacking the US PROBABLY has nothing to do with hating on the Bush admin... Suuuuuuuuuuure.. I believe you! Indeed, tell me more about what whose arguments boil down to dude... It's almost as fun as watching you cry that someone ELSE is a liar.


No, they haven't. Jesus, its pathetic that you don't get this.

Yea, I know.. being convicted for conspiring to harm Americans is like a full presidential pardon..





Oh, well, if Shogun decides that its "special" then we can remove HC. Thats a really great standard.

It wasn't Shogun who decided such.. It was the PRESIDENT of your fucking nation, stupid. You know, the Commander in Chief? The guy that has had your panties all bunched up for the last 7 years? That guy? You know, the same guy who is playing the same role as, uh, Honest Abe did during HIS national crisis?

DOH!

I'm glad you responded to three long posts, dude. This really is a great way to end a work day.


Are you an American? Can the government with terrorism and not provide any evidence that the charge is true? You've lost your right to HC. Its as simple as that. Cowards like you are what allowed the holocaust to happen, you expect that the government can do no wrong and that its all good if shit ain't happening to you.

Yes I am an American. No, the gov would ahve no reason to black ops me to gitmo since, *GASP*, im not out learning how to say "death to the infidels" in arabic while exchanging email addys with terrorists.

What is simple here is your ability to comprehend the nature of our Constitution. Indeed, NOW padilla is just like jews baking in a holocaust oven!

Yea! 6 million jews are JUST LIKE Jose Padilla!



Thats fucking RICH, dude. THAT was the cherry on top of your death by chocolate sunday of stupidity!

Sure, MILLIONS of other 'mericans have yet to be dragged to a cuban gulag but.. yes, JOSE PADILLA is the telltale sign of an American Holocaust!

WOW.






Not really convenient, more annoying actually. Try speaking clearly.

Try to stop being a limp wristed pussy when faced with logic that overloads your feeble brain. Crying non sequiter and strawman at every point where i've got you choking for breath probably isn't obvious or anything.



Its also a fact of his trial that it was appealed several times. DOesn't make it relevant.

Oh yea... Of COURSE it's not relevant.. because YOu say so! Shit, what on EARTH was I thinking in not assuming that your opinion is the clearest beacon of justice that this earth has seen in two thousand years?!?!


Actually it pokes no holes in my position. To think so is beyond absurd.

Oh I know.. insisting that i'm not standing over your king and pissing on your queen probably means that I don't have you in check too!





Oh, well its relevant and "pokes holes" cause Shogun says its so. Shogun who has LIED over and over during this debate. Right

Well, to me and the Americans who found him guilty eventually.. Yes, i'd say that trumps your dim-witted opinion all day long...



Actually OJ was an ordinary criminal.



Yea... CLEARLY OJ was an ordinary criminal!


I think I just discovered the sprinkles of your Death by chocolate sunday of stupidity...



Oh, well thats great evidence. "we must suspend HC" "why?" "cause sometimes people go free...and...stuff....".

yea.. terrorists that want to kill Americans. That might not mean much to your wannabe nihilist world view but the rest of us will go ahead and learn our lessons from 9/11, thanks.




Historical precedence doesn't count for much. Legal precedence does. I'm sure someone with your learning capabilities can understand the difference if you spend enough time on it.

Oh yea... CLEARLY precedence means little in our system of government... shit.. I couldn't even laugh at you without laughing at you.

You know.. common law being created last year sometime... And SCOTUS? every decision is a product of today!

 

[Shogun]

Were you randis in a previous life?

I realize that I must have caught your eye lately but, just so you know, no means no.

for real.


the answer is no. You can stop trying to court me now.