Smoking, Trans fats, and terrorists

[manifold]

maybe your first step can be learning a thing or two about Conspiracy laws...

If I have any questions, I'll just ask you.

 

[Ravi]

I think that criminal behavoiur is still a crime regardless of the motives behind it. I also think that conspiracy to commit criminal behaviour is valid for prosecution.


perhaps the "Defensive Jihad" will work next time.

I dunno. The guy was denied HC, supposedly tortured, and the only evidence they had was a fingerprint and his birthday on an application for AQ. I don't know if he was guilty or not, but for any other charge but terrorism the case would have been laughed out of court.

Pretty cool how Bush has been able to round up a bunch of mental defectives and lock them away.

 

[manifold]

Say.. what does


Title 18, US Code, Section 241

"If two or more persons conspire to injure...

mean to you?

I dunno. Your google and c&p skills are unparalleled?

 

[Shogun]

I dunno. The guy was denied HC, supposedly tortured, and the only evidence they had was a fingerprint and his birthday on an application for AQ. I don't know if he was guilty or not, but for any other charge but terrorism the case would have been laughed out of court.

Pretty cool how Bush has been able to round up a bunch of mental defectives and lock them away.

uh, you don't know if Padilla has been convicted but you KNOW that Bush has been rounding up "mental defectives"? yea, he's probably got a thing against retards like that.

 

[Shogun]

I dunno. Your google and c&p skills are unparalleled?

a google hit probably means that it's a figment of my imagination!


poor guy.. Is this how you react to having your weak argument batted out of the sky like a gnat on a donkeys ass? I hope so. I'll be looking forward to engaging you on other issues.

 

[Ravi]

uh, you don't know if Padilla has been convicted but you KNOW that Bush has been rounding up "mental defectives"? yea, he's probably got a thing against retards like that.

So far as I can tell all the people charged with terrorism have been half-wits. I was especially thinking of the buffoons in Miami.

I know Padilla has been convicted. I stated that I didn't know if he was guilty. That is just one problem with these denial of HB cases...you never really can know if they are guilty or not.

 

[Shogun]

Well, Ravir, that same thing can be said about every trial where the convicted hasn't given a DNA sample right before committing a crime or bothered being caught on film. Half-wits? gimme a break, dude. Do you have their medical records that prove as much or is it really necessary to insist some evil nefarious vendetta against random innocent mid easterners who are retarded?

 

[Larkinn]

riiiight.. well you and terry nichols can share that little piece of wisdom while the rest of us go ahead and keep treasonous bastards from blowing up any more innocent american citizens.

Congratulations on shitting on the US Constitution.

Indeed, go tell it to the ghost of Abe Lincoln who did the same thing in order to, again, protect innocent civilians from becoming a footnote in a larger conflict.

Lincoln was involved in a war in which six hundred thousand Americans died and in which the very future of this country was at stake. Neither is the case now.

As it is, the ONLY example of an American you can provide was, in fact, convicted after all.

Irrelevant.

I guess some of us comprehend how damning the attempt at "Defensive Jihad" is to those being charged with acts of conspiracy to commit terrorism.

This sentence is incoherent.

Hey, maybe we can ignore a few more actual examples of ACTUAL muted liberty just because Al Capone was convicted on Tax Evasion rather than, you know, the gov prove that he was a fucking killer mobster!

Because tax evasion isn't a crime, right? Oh wait, yes it is.

No, they don't HAVE to be guilty. But, in your single example it turned out that he was, in FACT, guilty. Then again, you know how those jurors are probably Karl Rove plants!

Whether he was guilty or not is irrelevant . The circumstances of the case are irrelevant . What IS relevant is that you are justifying the removal of habeus corpus of American citizens at the word of the federal government ALONE .

I know, Jose Padilla probably should have pulled a ruby ridge and killed some law enforcement agents, eh? Would he raise to an entirely new plateau in your shrine of dickheads if Rage Against the Machine wrote a song about him? Indeed, boofuckinghoo, a man who was caught acting treasonous AND LATER CONVICTED didn't get a chance to kill Americans. For real, I'm creating a new branch of the mississippi river right now with the tears that im collecting in his honor.

WTF are you talking about? The issue isn't that he was arrested, but that he was denied habeus corpus.

the flaw in your silly fucking gun strawman is that the NRA doesn't defend the gun rights of felons with a criminal background in violent gun use. I wouldn't suppose you'd think that little piece of stupidity a few moves in advance.

Flaw? You mean irrelevant comment? This has nothing to do with my point about guns.

Indeed, this OBVIOUSLY means that he should be free to continue with, uh, conspiring to kill Americans! This is TOTALLY how our legal system works! Hell, didn't you know that Jeff Dahmer had conjugal visits before his trial?? Oh wait.. no, he didn't. What a fucking TRAVESTY that a murderer didn't get a chance to enjoy every second of pre-conviction, lemme tellya!

Oh, well I was OBVIOUSLY saying he should be freed before trial. No wait, I never said nor implied that. Try fucking reading what I am saying before you spew your bullshit. He should have been tried in 2002 or 2003 by a civilian court, NOT denied habeus corpus for 4 years.

In this case, yes. You know, since Padilla WAS a fucking terrorist conspiring to kill Americans. DOH! silly me, I should have known his jury conviction was rigged! obviously. Like I said, go tell it to the ghost of Abe Lincoln and tell him what kind of a Fascist asshole he was for winning the civil war.

You are a fucking idiot. Time matters. That is, you aren't justified in doing something because you something is proven after the fact .

Do YOU know what he did or didn't know or are you making assumptions based on the position of your arguement? Post your source that proves that Padilla didn't know that his actions were the reason for his detention. OR, call me a fascist. That always seems to work for mouth foamers and goofball nutters..

LMFAO...there would be no way for him to actually know until charges were filed against him . That is the way we inform people what they have been accused of in this country. Don't like it? Move to somewhere that embraces your form of authoritarianism, perhaps Russia would be more your style.

I'll let your own words speak for itself. You'd rather American's die than admit the necessity of preventing terrorist actions against this nation. That is the kind of blinded demagoguery that sells Ann's books and is exactly what causes you to make brilliant statements like:

Please explain how charging Padilla in 2002 or 2003 would have killed Americans. That is an idiotic and absurd belief.

Guilt is less important that the government denying fundamental constitutional rights to American citizens.

So idiotic...I mean its not like our system was based on the idea that its better to let 10 guilty than go free than one innocent to go in jail or anything.

yea, conspiracy to commit murder is an innocent frolic through innocent-land too.

I'm sorry, when did I say that? Oh right, its another occasion of you making shit up. Sort of like when you claimed that no Americans had been denied habeus corpus.

Hey, maybe you can take a few minutes from your trite little tantrum to read a few case studies about just what type of sentence criminal CONSPIRACY will result in..

LMFAO...I know what type of sentence criminal conspiracy CAN result in. That changes nothing about what I've said.

Yea, I know.. Facts tend to suck when they don't support your predictable fucking rant, eh?

Not really, since they have nothing at all to do with my rant.

No, acting like a lemming enough to let a man who conspired to kill Americans go because of some silly fucking technicality,

Who exactly has said we should let him go? Oh wait, NOBODY. Try READING instead of making shit up.

And habeus corpus is a silly fucking technicality? Jesus Christ are you stupid.

DESPITE THE GUILTY CONVICTION, is unamerican. Padilla got his day in court and, unfortunately for you, didn't turn out to be the saint that you wished he was in order to throw dirt on the Bush admin.

The guilty conviction is IRRELEVANT. Are you really unable to understand this? And please explain when I wished or said he was a saint. Oh wait, thats you LYING AGAIN.

Indeed, lecture me on what in unamerican when there are enough examples to set precedence in AMERICAN history some more.

LMFAO...well tradition makes it all hunky dory, eh, Shogun?

 

[Larkinn]

yea.. tell it to the ghosts of the Rosenbergs... Calling me a fascist probably makes them not spies after all. Indeed, GUILT is less important than their rights, eh? After all, it's probably true that we handle petty theft and a serial murderer the same way too!

Care to explain what rights of theres were violated?

After all, Charles fucking Manson didn't kill anyone, right? It's a THOUGHT crime to conpsire to murder!

 

[Larkinn]

b-b-b-b-but his FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS are being VIOLATED! I-i-i'ts UN AMERICAN to keep a zealot from killing in the name of GOD! He's got RIGHTS you know!

And thats an argument nobody except you is making. Why you are making it is unclear. But keep on going there.

non-sequiter my ass. The "Defensive Jihad" was a FACT of Padillas trial... Facts sure are a pain in your ass, arent they?

Congratulations we aren't talking about his trial, we are talking about the fact that he was held for four years before his trial .

Try giving facts that are actually relevant.

 

[Ravi]

Well, Ravir, that same thing can be said about every trial where the convicted hasn't given a DNA sample right before committing a crime or bothered being caught on film. Half-wits? gimme a break, dude. Do you have their medical records that prove as much or is it really necessary to insist some evil nefarious vendetta against random innocent mid easterners who are retarded?

Neither Padilla nor the dopes in Miami are middle-easterners. They are all Americans. Not even a drop of middle-eastern blood. And if you read anything about any of them, yes they sound like half-wits.

The point is Americans, in the case of Padilla, can be locked up for years without due process and abused. Not sure why anyone feels comfortable with this concept.

Do you only care about due process as it applies to yourself?

 

[Larkinn]

No, WE haven't lost shit. A wannabe terrorist did.

Just curious...what makes you think that the government couldn't arrest you, and deny you habeus for 4 years and hold you in jail?

You can go suck John Walker Lind's cock as long as it makes you feel good about hating the Bush presidency all you need to.

When have I been hating Bush? Oh right saying he did something wrong automatically makes me a Bush-hater. Well have fun sucking bush's cock and remember to wash out your mouth afterwards.

You'd let a killer go on a self-righteous technicality despite the laughable charge that American's are losing out on HC

I'm sorry...when did I say we should let him go? Oh wait, I didn't. Thats another LIE. And you want to talk about facts Shogun? How bout we talk about how you keep LYING and can't seem to actually recognize what I am actually saying. Instead you just keep making shit up.

are are bing tossed into a fucking gulag for traffic tickets and passing bad checks.

Again, when did I say this? Oh wait, another LIE.

Enjoy knowing that.

Considering the level of debate you are engaging in and the constant lies, any judgement about me coming from you doesn't pass the laugh test, much less cause me to think its true. In fact its actually evidence against it.

 

[Larkinn]

uh, you don't know if Padilla has been convicted but you KNOW that Bush has been rounding up "mental defectives"? yea, he's probably got a thing against retards like that.

Learn the difference between guilty and convicted. And yes, in the trial there were several experts who said he was incompetent to stand trial. Such a brilliant criminal mastermind he was!

 

[Shogun]

And thats an argument nobody except you is making. Why you are making it is unclear. But keep on going there.


Oh come on, FASCIST.. These liberties are ABSOLUTE, right? Hell, "DEFENSIVE JIHAD" probably wasn't a weak assed attempt to insist that Padilla's religous rights were trampled too, eh? I mean, who the fuck cares if he is guilty when there are technicalities to put him BACK on the streets, eh?


Congratulations we aren't talking about his trial, we are talking about the fact that he was held for four years before his trial .

HA!

so, you dont wanna actually talk about the trial that he was given... and CONVICTED at... rather you just want a narrow view of this poor, poor terrorists claim to HC?



This is why you are the cancer of my side of the political spectrum.



Try giving facts that are actually relevant.

yea, being convicted for conspiracy to kill Americans is pretty fucking relevant, dude.

 

[Larkinn]

Well, Ravir, that same thing can be said about every trial where the convicted hasn't given a DNA sample right before committing a crime or bothered being caught on film. Half-wits? gimme a break, dude. Do you have their medical records that prove as much or is it really necessary to insist some evil nefarious vendetta against random innocent mid easterners who are retarded?

Mid easterners? Is that why this is all ok with you? You can say "oh, well hes a fuckin mid easterner and we can do whatever we want to those fucks". He was an AMERICAN. THE GOVERNMENT COULD DO THIS TO YOU. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY IT TO ANYONE. Oh, but it'll all be ok because terrorism is so bad that even if you LOOK guilty of it, the government can lock you up and throw away the key.

 

[Shogun]

Learn the difference between guilty and convicted. And yes, in the trial there were several experts who said he was incompetent to stand trial. Such a brilliant criminal mastermind he was!

oh hey, when in guilt let's pretend to be retarded!


I hear Tim Mcveigh's conviction was just a big evil illuminati conspiracy too!

After all, what the hell does his GUILT have to do with anything?

So, how many dead fucking babies does it take to make up for Padilla's thwarted Habeas, dude?

 

[Larkinn]

And thats an argument nobody except you is making. Why you are making it is unclear. But keep on going there.


Oh come on, FASCIST.. These liberties are ABSOLUTE, right? Hell, "DEFENSIVE JIHAD" probably wasn't a weak assed attempt to insist that Padilla's religous rights were trampled too, eh? I mean, who the fuck cares if he is guilty when there are technicalities to put him BACK on the streets, eh?

When did I say they are absolute? However, Habeus Corpus is one of our most fundamental liberties and barring the possibility of the US being destroyed should NOT be taken away from us. That you are justifying this is absolutely patehtic.

And by the way, nice LIE with the idea that with HB he would be back on the streets. He probably just would have been tried earlier.

Congratulations we aren't talking about his trial, we are talking about the fact that he was held for four years before his trial .

HA!

so, you dont wanna actually talk about the trial that he was given... and CONVICTED at... rather you just want a narrow view of this poor, poor terrorists claim to HC?

Because I'm not interested in defending him, which you can't seem to understand. I am interested in the government not removing ANYONES fundamental rights, no matter WHAT crime they are accused of, whether they end of being guilty or not.

This is why you are the cancer of my side of the political spectrum.

You are a fucking moron. Have fun selling our your liberties so you can live a day longer.

Try giving facts that are actually relevant.

yea, being convicted for conspiracy to kill Americans is pretty fucking relevant, dude.

No, its really not. The government denied him his rights BEFORE THAT HAPPENED. I know, I know...time is such a complicated concept for you to understand but if you really put your mind to it, I'm sure you can.

 

[Larkinn]

oh hey, when in guilt let's pretend to be retarded!

Oh right...because he was an expert in psychology and mental illness and really knew how to fool those guys.

I hear Tim Mcveigh's conviction was just a big evil illuminati conspiracy too!

Another non-sequiter. You want to bluster on about how the facts are inconvenient to me, why don't you stop lying?

After all, what the hell does his GUILT have to do with anything?

With the government denying him his rights? Nothing at all.

So, how many dead fucking babies does it take to make up for Padilla's thwarted Habeas, dude?

Wait, didn't I already ask you to tell me why providing him with HB would have caused him to walk the streets?

Once you do that, please also provide the evidence that he would kill babies.

Thanks.

 

[Shogun]

Neither Padilla nor the dopes in Miami are middle-easterners. They are all Americans. Not even a drop of middle-eastern blood. And if you read anything about any of them, yes they sound like half-wits.

The point is Americans, in the case of Padilla, can be locked up for years without due process and abused. Not sure why anyone feels comfortable with this concept.

Do you only care about due process as it applies to yourself?

I guess that depends on if Im out acting treasonous and conspiring to kill Americans. His tenure in jail didn't keep the evidence from convicting him, eh?

Gosh, if only his GUILT OF A CRIME were as important as his claim to HC...

duh.. silly me.. he's probably Innocent! Disillusioned fucks like the Unibomber usually are!

So, how much of a public hero was John Walker Lind? he was also detained and convicted.. even though he was born in the US. Gosh, I sure hope he gets access to habeas corpus!

 

[Steerpike]

I think the U.S. Supreme Court got this one right. They didn't make the decision in the Padilla case, though, which was sent down on a technicality.

But in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld the Court said the government cannot arrest a U.S. citizen and then hold them indefinitely just because they designate them an enemy combatant. They have to provide due process.

That's a simplification, but basically that was it.