Slavery Reparations is immoral

[IM2]

Those excuses don't cut it. In 2019 whites are still racist. And every white person who graduates from Ivy League and many other U.S. colleges right now benefit from slavery because slaves built those colleges.

Give it a rest. There are no excuses for slavery, but there also are no excuses to be still wanting reparations from slavery in 2019. You want reparations for people being racist? You want someone to cut you a check from tax payer money because you are Black? Fuck that. There are lots of people that aren't racist that pay taxes. I'm not paying you money just because you are Black.

I think the real issue here is, you want top punish EVERYONE, including people that have never done anything wrong to you or any other Black person. All you are doing at this point is making lots of people have resentment towards you and the Black people like you who want paid for something you never suffered from, nor has your parents, grandparents and possibly many more generations.

You are now causing more harm than good.

Dear Lewdog if you compare settlements such as Freedmen's Town to the Native American tribal settlements, yes, I'd say the native settlers who created these towns deserve return of their lands and heritage to their descendants that was taken away by eminent domain and other encroachments they did not have "equal protections and representation" to defend. Thus they were taken advantage of while they were not citizens and not considered as having equal legal and human rights.

People of minority socioeconomic classes who end up in jails with prison records unable to work
in part because they didn't have equal access to LEGAL defense as well as equal experience with property and financial business management also have a disadvantage that gets exploited politically.

If you look at the history, of a lineage of people going from being considered "property" of others
to getting emancipated in either 1863 or 1865 for Texas, and finally getting equal civil rights as late as 1964 or later, there are whole communities that are disadvantaged and behind on the learning curve regarding property ownership, financial credit and business experience, and participation in government.

As Obama concluded when he looked into the reparations issue, by the time you address the poverty issues and education to address socioeconomic disadvantages, this would not only uplift and help the Black populations but ALL people suffering from disparity and unequal defense and protection of rights as other people who have more experience with financial management and government participation over generations. So if you focus on socioeconomic development, this will naturally address the damage done to Black populations without having to target that specific demographic.

So there are ways to address this issue effectively that bypass the legality problems.

Both Ben Carson and Obama advocate for microlending and financial education/business training programs to break the cycle of poverty and dependence on welfare handouts.

When I read that Obama was taking on criminal justice reform, I just wish he had done that as the means of freeing up resources to finance health care reform. Then he could have sold both ideas as part of the same solutions. And reforming criminal justice by investing in preventative care, teaching hospitals and medical education to diagnose and treat criminal disorders, abuse and addiction early to cut the costs of crime would have solved both the health care funding issues, education, and this reparations issue of ending the genocidal oppression of poor minorities, not just Black but Latino, Native Americans, and others lacking equal legal defense, education and experience as populations that are not still suffering aftermath from slavery, genocide, trafficking, and other disruptions of their family lineage and heritage.

Those are all issues that are important and need to fixed, but when people like IM2 focus on fighting for reparations instead criminal justice reform, getting rid of jail sentences for non-violent offenses, and pushing ban the box initiatives... he is making people resentful and thus get a negative view of the rest of the issues, and it makes it harder to get them accomplished.

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Slavery Reparations is immoral and unreasonable

Cory Booker introduces Senate bill on slavery reparations

Cory Booker was introduced a Senate bill on slavery reparations. There are also other 2020 Democrat candidates who are talking about reparations. Booker, Harris, Warren and Sanders are all talking about Slavery Reparation.

Candidates edge toward discussing slavery reparations

Not all people of color in the United States are descended from slaves, and not all are impoverished. It’s also expensive and would cost the U.S. government $6 trillion to as much as $14 trillion. University of Connecticut professor Thomas Craemer arrived at that range by calculating the value of slave labor at prevailing wages from 1776 to 1865, compounded at 3 percent annually.

Slavery Reparations is immoral because it would punish innocent people and it would reward non-victims. There are no living slaves and there are no living slave owners. It would be like punishing a person for something that their friend did or a sibling did. It’s immoral to punish people for something that they had no control of. The Dem candidates are not just pandering for votes, they are trying to buy votes with your money. The constitution treats people as individuals, not as groups.

This Lib/Prog strongly OPPOSES reparations.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

 

[WEATHER53]

What my great granddaddy did to someone else’s great granddaddy has ZERO to do with the here and now Except for in the mind of perpetual victims who want the dole.

 

[Lewdog]

Give it a rest. There are no excuses for slavery, but there also are no excuses to be still wanting reparations from slavery in 2019. You want reparations for people being racist? You want someone to cut you a check from tax payer money because you are Black? Fuck that. There are lots of people that aren't racist that pay taxes. I'm not paying you money just because you are Black.

I think the real issue here is, you want top punish EVERYONE, including people that have never done anything wrong to you or any other Black person. All you are doing at this point is making lots of people have resentment towards you and the Black people like you who want paid for something you never suffered from, nor has your parents, grandparents and possibly many more generations.

You are now causing more harm than good.

Dear Lewdog if you compare settlements such as Freedmen's Town to the Native American tribal settlements, yes, I'd say the native settlers who created these towns deserve return of their lands and heritage to their descendants that was taken away by eminent domain and other encroachments they did not have "equal protections and representation" to defend. Thus they were taken advantage of while they were not citizens and not considered as having equal legal and human rights.

People of minority socioeconomic classes who end up in jails with prison records unable to work
in part because they didn't have equal access to LEGAL defense as well as equal experience with property and financial business management also have a disadvantage that gets exploited politically.

If you look at the history, of a lineage of people going from being considered "property" of others
to getting emancipated in either 1863 or 1865 for Texas, and finally getting equal civil rights as late as 1964 or later, there are whole communities that are disadvantaged and behind on the learning curve regarding property ownership, financial credit and business experience, and participation in government.

As Obama concluded when he looked into the reparations issue, by the time you address the poverty issues and education to address socioeconomic disadvantages, this would not only uplift and help the Black populations but ALL people suffering from disparity and unequal defense and protection of rights as other people who have more experience with financial management and government participation over generations. So if you focus on socioeconomic development, this will naturally address the damage done to Black populations without having to target that specific demographic.

So there are ways to address this issue effectively that bypass the legality problems.

Both Ben Carson and Obama advocate for microlending and financial education/business training programs to break the cycle of poverty and dependence on welfare handouts.

When I read that Obama was taking on criminal justice reform, I just wish he had done that as the means of freeing up resources to finance health care reform. Then he could have sold both ideas as part of the same solutions. And reforming criminal justice by investing in preventative care, teaching hospitals and medical education to diagnose and treat criminal disorders, abuse and addiction early to cut the costs of crime would have solved both the health care funding issues, education, and this reparations issue of ending the genocidal oppression of poor minorities, not just Black but Latino, Native Americans, and others lacking equal legal defense, education and experience as populations that are not still suffering aftermath from slavery, genocide, trafficking, and other disruptions of their family lineage and heritage.

Those are all issues that are important and need to fixed, but when people like IM2 focus on fighting for reparations instead criminal justice reform, getting rid of jail sentences for non-violent offenses, and pushing ban the box initiatives... he is making people resentful and thus get a negative view of the rest of the issues, and it makes it harder to get them accomplished.

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

You keep on saying "whites" over and over again... but if you were truly educated you would know that it isn't that simple. In areas where it is predominately white, classy isn't much better than racism. You also ignore the fact that women are not treated equally as well. Do you understand Blacks are not the only victims in this society. How do you think homosexuals are treated in rural Arkansas? This is another reason you are a magnet for resentment.

 

[Lewdog]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

 

[emilynghiem]

Give it a rest. There are no excuses for slavery, but there also are no excuses to be still wanting reparations from slavery in 2019. You want reparations for people being racist? You want someone to cut you a check from tax payer money because you are Black? Fuck that. There are lots of people that aren't racist that pay taxes. I'm not paying you money just because you are Black.

I think the real issue here is, you want top punish EVERYONE, including people that have never done anything wrong to you or any other Black person. All you are doing at this point is making lots of people have resentment towards you and the Black people like you who want paid for something you never suffered from, nor has your parents, grandparents and possibly many more generations.

You are now causing more harm than good.

Dear Lewdog if you compare settlements such as Freedmen's Town to the Native American tribal settlements, yes, I'd say the native settlers who created these towns deserve return of their lands and heritage to their descendants that was taken away by eminent domain and other encroachments they did not have "equal protections and representation" to defend. Thus they were taken advantage of while they were not citizens and not considered as having equal legal and human rights.

People of minority socioeconomic classes who end up in jails with prison records unable to work
in part because they didn't have equal access to LEGAL defense as well as equal experience with property and financial business management also have a disadvantage that gets exploited politically.

If you look at the history, of a lineage of people going from being considered "property" of others
to getting emancipated in either 1863 or 1865 for Texas, and finally getting equal civil rights as late as 1964 or later, there are whole communities that are disadvantaged and behind on the learning curve regarding property ownership, financial credit and business experience, and participation in government.

As Obama concluded when he looked into the reparations issue, by the time you address the poverty issues and education to address socioeconomic disadvantages, this would not only uplift and help the Black populations but ALL people suffering from disparity and unequal defense and protection of rights as other people who have more experience with financial management and government participation over generations. So if you focus on socioeconomic development, this will naturally address the damage done to Black populations without having to target that specific demographic.

So there are ways to address this issue effectively that bypass the legality problems.

Both Ben Carson and Obama advocate for microlending and financial education/business training programs to break the cycle of poverty and dependence on welfare handouts.

When I read that Obama was taking on criminal justice reform, I just wish he had done that as the means of freeing up resources to finance health care reform. Then he could have sold both ideas as part of the same solutions. And reforming criminal justice by investing in preventative care, teaching hospitals and medical education to diagnose and treat criminal disorders, abuse and addiction early to cut the costs of crime would have solved both the health care funding issues, education, and this reparations issue of ending the genocidal oppression of poor minorities, not just Black but Latino, Native Americans, and others lacking equal legal defense, education and experience as populations that are not still suffering aftermath from slavery, genocide, trafficking, and other disruptions of their family lineage and heritage.

Those are all issues that are important and need to fixed, but when people like IM2 focus on fighting for reparations instead criminal justice reform, getting rid of jail sentences for non-violent offenses, and pushing ban the box initiatives... he is making people resentful and thus get a negative view of the rest of the issues, and it makes it harder to get them accomplished.

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

 

[IM2]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Irish were never slaves and Jews got reparations from our government for something our government was not responsible for.

 

[IM2]

Dear Lewdog if you compare settlements such as Freedmen's Town to the Native American tribal settlements, yes, I'd say the native settlers who created these towns deserve return of their lands and heritage to their descendants that was taken away by eminent domain and other encroachments they did not have "equal protections and representation" to defend. Thus they were taken advantage of while they were not citizens and not considered as having equal legal and human rights.

People of minority socioeconomic classes who end up in jails with prison records unable to work
in part because they didn't have equal access to LEGAL defense as well as equal experience with property and financial business management also have a disadvantage that gets exploited politically.

If you look at the history, of a lineage of people going from being considered "property" of others
to getting emancipated in either 1863 or 1865 for Texas, and finally getting equal civil rights as late as 1964 or later, there are whole communities that are disadvantaged and behind on the learning curve regarding property ownership, financial credit and business experience, and participation in government.

As Obama concluded when he looked into the reparations issue, by the time you address the poverty issues and education to address socioeconomic disadvantages, this would not only uplift and help the Black populations but ALL people suffering from disparity and unequal defense and protection of rights as other people who have more experience with financial management and government participation over generations. So if you focus on socioeconomic development, this will naturally address the damage done to Black populations without having to target that specific demographic.

So there are ways to address this issue effectively that bypass the legality problems.

Both Ben Carson and Obama advocate for microlending and financial education/business training programs to break the cycle of poverty and dependence on welfare handouts.

When I read that Obama was taking on criminal justice reform, I just wish he had done that as the means of freeing up resources to finance health care reform. Then he could have sold both ideas as part of the same solutions. And reforming criminal justice by investing in preventative care, teaching hospitals and medical education to diagnose and treat criminal disorders, abuse and addiction early to cut the costs of crime would have solved both the health care funding issues, education, and this reparations issue of ending the genocidal oppression of poor minorities, not just Black but Latino, Native Americans, and others lacking equal legal defense, education and experience as populations that are not still suffering aftermath from slavery, genocide, trafficking, and other disruptions of their family lineage and heritage.

Those are all issues that are important and need to fixed, but when people like IM2 focus on fighting for reparations instead criminal justice reform, getting rid of jail sentences for non-violent offenses, and pushing ban the box initiatives... he is making people resentful and thus get a negative view of the rest of the issues, and it makes it harder to get them accomplished.

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

Emily do not adopt the white racist lies. Blacks have risen from slavery to the 8-9th largest economy on earth. And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts. Again you need to expand your study of American history to learn the complete story.

 

[IM2]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

Chinese have suffered and continue suffering from white racism. But they were not slaves.

"The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. Industrial employers were eager for this new and cheap labor, whites were stirred to anger by the "yellow peril.” Despite provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against immigrants of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor.”

Newspapers condemned employers, and even church leaders denounced the arrival of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act prohibiting immigration from China for the following ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act is seen by some as the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States who had left China without their wives and children. Anti-miscegenation laws in many Western states also prohibited the Chinese men from marrying white women.[2] "

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

"The Chinese were never slaves in America-- yes, they were treated very poorly and payed minimally, but they were never brought down to the level of African slaves (unless they were kidnapped Coolies or prostitutes, but the former went mostly to South America). Interesting question though; after the Civil War when the African slaves were for the most part "free," Southern plantation owners thught that they would be able to use Chinese laborers as a replacement source of cheap labor;

however, the Chinese got wise and made the plantation owners draft contracts, and if the plantation owner was to breach his contract with the Chinese, they would sue and usually win their case.."

Were Chinese slaves in the Civil War

150 Years Ago, Chinese Railroad Workers Staged the Era's Largest Labor Strike

The Chinese railroad workers were grading and digging tunnels across a stretch of the Sierras when they decided to lay down their tools. It was the end of June 1867 and snow still covered the mountain tops.

The men, many of them from Canton in southern China, had demands: They wanted pay equal to whites, shorter workdays, and better conditions for building the country’s first transcontinental railroad.

So they put them to their employer, the Central Pacific Railroad, and a strike was on.

150 years ago, Chinese railroad workers staged the era's largest labor strike

 

[Lewdog]

Those are all issues that are important and need to fixed, but when people like IM2 focus on fighting for reparations instead criminal justice reform, getting rid of jail sentences for non-violent offenses, and pushing ban the box initiatives... he is making people resentful and thus get a negative view of the rest of the issues, and it makes it harder to get them accomplished.

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

Emily do not adopt the white racist lies. Blacks have risen from slavery to the 8-9th largest economy on earth. And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts. Again you need to expand your study of American history to learn the complete story.

No hand outs? That's a flat out lie. I'm not saying Blacks get EXTRA hand outs compared to other people, though you have groups like the United Negro College Fund, but to say "no hand outs" is a complete lie. Lots of people get hand outs, like small business grants especially in poor neighborhoods that need new business development. Or hand outs in the forms of assistance with getting special mortgage loans with little to no money down and no closing costs. Do you think telling lies to make it sound more difficult than ever it will give you more legitimacy?

 

[Lewdog]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

Chinese have suffered and continue suffering from white racism. But they were not slaves.

"The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. Industrial employers were eager for this new and cheap labor, whites were stirred to anger by the "yellow peril.” Despite provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against immigrants of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor.”

Newspapers condemned employers, and even church leaders denounced the arrival of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act prohibiting immigration from China for the following ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act is seen by some as the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States who had left China without their wives and children. Anti-miscegenation laws in many Western states also prohibited the Chinese men from marrying white women.[2] "

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

"The Chinese were never slaves in America-- yes, they were treated very poorly and payed minimally, but they were never brought down to the level of African slaves (unless they were kidnapped Coolies or prostitutes, but the former went mostly to South America). Interesting question though; after the Civil War when the African slaves were for the most part "free," Southern plantation owners thught that they would be able to use Chinese laborers as a replacement source of cheap labor;

however, the Chinese got wise and made the plantation owners draft contracts, and if the plantation owner was to breach his contract with the Chinese, they would sue and usually win their case.."

Were Chinese slaves in the Civil War

150 Years Ago, Chinese Railroad Workers Staged the Era's Largest Labor Strike

The Chinese railroad workers were grading and digging tunnels across a stretch of the Sierras when they decided to lay down their tools. It was the end of June 1867 and snow still covered the mountain tops.

The men, many of them from Canton in southern China, had demands: They wanted pay equal to whites, shorter workdays, and better conditions for building the country’s first transcontinental railroad.

So they put them to their employer, the Central Pacific Railroad, and a strike was on.

150 years ago, Chinese railroad workers staged the era's largest labor strike

They were slaves. They did not get paid the same wage as others and they worked dangerous jobs in which they were basically disposable. Many Chinese women are still trafficked sex slaves even today.

In fact it was so bad that the very first immigration law voted in by Congress involved Asians.

 

[IM2]

Debunking a Myth: The Irish Were Not Slaves, Too

It has shown up on Irish trivia Facebook pages, in Scientific American magazine, and on white nationalist message boards: the little-known story of the Irish slaves who built America, who are sometimes said to have outnumbered and been treated worse than slaves from Africa.

But it’s not true.

Historians say the idea of Irish slaves is based on a misreading of history and that the distortion is often politically motivated. Far-right memes have taken off online and are used as racist barbs against African-Americans. “The Irish were slaves, too,” the memes often say. “We got over it, so why can’t you?”

A small group of Irish and American scholars has spent years pushing back on the false history. In 2016, 82 Irish scholars and writers signed an open letter denouncing the Irish slave myth and asking publications to stop mentioning it. Some complied, removing or revising articles that referenced the false claims, but the letter’s impact was limited.

The Irish slave narrative is based on the misinterpretation of the history of indentured servitude, which is how many poor Europeans migrated to North America and the Caribbean in the early colonial period, historians said.

Without a doubt, life was bad for indentured servants. They were often treated brutally. Not all of them entered servitude willingly. Some were political prisoners. Some were children.

“I’m not saying it was pleasant or anything — it was the opposite — but it was a completely different category from slavery,” said Liam Hogan, a research librarian in Ireland who has spearheaded the debunking effort. “It was a transitory state.”

Debunking a Myth: The Irish Were Not Slaves, Too

Open letter to Irish Central, Irish Examiner and Scientific American about their “Irish slaves” disinformation
Liam Hogan Mar 8, 2016

Open letter to Irish Central, Irish Examiner and Scientific American about their “Irish slaves”…

 

[IM2]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

Chinese have suffered and continue suffering from white racism. But they were not slaves.

"The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. Industrial employers were eager for this new and cheap labor, whites were stirred to anger by the "yellow peril.” Despite provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against immigrants of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor.”

Newspapers condemned employers, and even church leaders denounced the arrival of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act prohibiting immigration from China for the following ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act is seen by some as the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States who had left China without their wives and children. Anti-miscegenation laws in many Western states also prohibited the Chinese men from marrying white women.[2] "

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

"The Chinese were never slaves in America-- yes, they were treated very poorly and payed minimally, but they were never brought down to the level of African slaves (unless they were kidnapped Coolies or prostitutes, but the former went mostly to South America). Interesting question though; after the Civil War when the African slaves were for the most part "free," Southern plantation owners thught that they would be able to use Chinese laborers as a replacement source of cheap labor;

however, the Chinese got wise and made the plantation owners draft contracts, and if the plantation owner was to breach his contract with the Chinese, they would sue and usually win their case.."

Were Chinese slaves in the Civil War

150 Years Ago, Chinese Railroad Workers Staged the Era's Largest Labor Strike

The Chinese railroad workers were grading and digging tunnels across a stretch of the Sierras when they decided to lay down their tools. It was the end of June 1867 and snow still covered the mountain tops.

The men, many of them from Canton in southern China, had demands: They wanted pay equal to whites, shorter workdays, and better conditions for building the country’s first transcontinental railroad.

So they put them to their employer, the Central Pacific Railroad, and a strike was on.

150 years ago, Chinese railroad workers staged the era's largest labor strike

They were slaves. They did not get paid the same wage as others and they worked dangerous jobs in which they were basically disposable. Many Chinese women are still trafficked sex slaves even today.

In fact it was so bad that the very first immigration law voted in by Congress involved Asians.

They were not slaves and that's a fact. The were laborers who were paid and as you have been shown were able to strike for higher wages. Black slaves could not do that. Now don't get it twisted because Chinese have faced the same continuing white racism we have aside from slavery.

 

[Lewdog]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

Chinese have suffered and continue suffering from white racism. But they were not slaves.

"The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. Industrial employers were eager for this new and cheap labor, whites were stirred to anger by the "yellow peril.” Despite provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against immigrants of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor.”

Newspapers condemned employers, and even church leaders denounced the arrival of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act prohibiting immigration from China for the following ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act is seen by some as the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States who had left China without their wives and children. Anti-miscegenation laws in many Western states also prohibited the Chinese men from marrying white women.[2] "

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

"The Chinese were never slaves in America-- yes, they were treated very poorly and payed minimally, but they were never brought down to the level of African slaves (unless they were kidnapped Coolies or prostitutes, but the former went mostly to South America). Interesting question though; after the Civil War when the African slaves were for the most part "free," Southern plantation owners thught that they would be able to use Chinese laborers as a replacement source of cheap labor;

however, the Chinese got wise and made the plantation owners draft contracts, and if the plantation owner was to breach his contract with the Chinese, they would sue and usually win their case.."

Were Chinese slaves in the Civil War

150 Years Ago, Chinese Railroad Workers Staged the Era's Largest Labor Strike

The Chinese railroad workers were grading and digging tunnels across a stretch of the Sierras when they decided to lay down their tools. It was the end of June 1867 and snow still covered the mountain tops.

The men, many of them from Canton in southern China, had demands: They wanted pay equal to whites, shorter workdays, and better conditions for building the country’s first transcontinental railroad.

So they put them to their employer, the Central Pacific Railroad, and a strike was on.

150 years ago, Chinese railroad workers staged the era's largest labor strike

They were slaves. They did not get paid the same wage as others and they worked dangerous jobs in which they were basically disposable. Many Chinese women are still trafficked sex slaves even today.

In fact it was so bad that the very first immigration law voted in by Congress involved Asians.

They were not slaves and that's a fact. The were laborers who were paid and as you have been shown were able to strike for higher wages. Black slaves could not do that. Now don't get it twisted because Chinese have faced the same continuing white racism we have aside from slavery.

Getting paid pennies on the dollar and being forced to live in buildings owned by their bosses, and buy food and other things from their bosses who charged high unfair prices, is slavery. They were brought to the U.S. under false pretenses and thrown into an environment that cost them more to work than what they made. They could never earn enough money to pay back the employers for the cost of bringing them to the U.S.

 

[IM2]

Reparations is not all I focus on. But this thread is about reparations so why should I discuss something else. You think that we should concern ourselves with the fact that as we are demanding economic equality whites will get resentful. Apparently those like you don't care about the resentment we as blacks have knowing that the shape a lot of our communities are in is due to whites cutting themselves checks with our money. Nothing I am saying is making anything more difficult. Most of these people oppose any of the initiatives you are talking about and never will support them.

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

Emily do not adopt the white racist lies. Blacks have risen from slavery to the 8-9th largest economy on earth. And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts. Again you need to expand your study of American history to learn the complete story.

No hand outs? That's a flat out lie. I'm not saying Blacks get EXTRA hand outs compared to other people, though you have groups like the United Negro College Fund, but to say "no hand outs" is a complete lie. Lots of people get hand outs, like small business grants especially in poor neighborhoods that need new business development. Or hand outs in the forms of assistance with getting special mortgage loans with little to no money down and no closing costs. Do you think telling lies to make it sound more difficult than ever it will give you more legitimacy?

I said no handouts and that's what I mean. None of the things you mention are only for blacks. And the UNCF is not a government handout.

 

[Lewdog]

???
Dear IM2 it depends HOW you go about demanding equality economically and politically.

Conservatives I know would LOVE if everyone learned equal self-government
by knowledge of the laws, and all became financially self-sufficient by
knowledge and experience with business, property management, etc.

Then they wouldn't have to worry about dependence on govt and political exploitation of the poor.

So if you seek liberation and equality by equal EMPOWERMENT in business,
community development and management, and self-government
that's how Conservatives like Booker T Washington pushed for independence.

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

Emily do not adopt the white racist lies. Blacks have risen from slavery to the 8-9th largest economy on earth. And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts. Again you need to expand your study of American history to learn the complete story.

No hand outs? That's a flat out lie. I'm not saying Blacks get EXTRA hand outs compared to other people, though you have groups like the United Negro College Fund, but to say "no hand outs" is a complete lie. Lots of people get hand outs, like small business grants especially in poor neighborhoods that need new business development. Or hand outs in the forms of assistance with getting special mortgage loans with little to no money down and no closing costs. Do you think telling lies to make it sound more difficult than ever it will give you more legitimacy?

I said no handouts and that's what I mean. None of the things you mention are only for blacks. And the UNCF is not a government handout.

You didn't say government hand outs... and you certainly didn't say that Blacks didn't get hand outs (That were just for Blacks).

You said, "And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts."

 

[IM2]

I'm Irish. The Irish were the first U.S. slaves next to Indians in-slaving Indians. Where's my free stuff?

I'm also Jewish. Jews have been slaves throughout history, including Hitler's regime. Where's my free stuff?

The Chinese were used as slaves to build the railroads, mine gold, as sex workers, and many other areas as well. Blacks were not the only slaves in the U.S.

Chinese have suffered and continue suffering from white racism. But they were not slaves.

"The history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States includes three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States, beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. Industrial employers were eager for this new and cheap labor, whites were stirred to anger by the "yellow peril.” Despite provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against immigrants of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor.”

Newspapers condemned employers, and even church leaders denounced the arrival of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act prohibiting immigration from China for the following ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act is seen by some as the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.[1] These laws not only prevented new immigration but also the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States who had left China without their wives and children. Anti-miscegenation laws in many Western states also prohibited the Chinese men from marrying white women.[2] "

History of Chinese Americans - Wikipedia

"The Chinese were never slaves in America-- yes, they were treated very poorly and payed minimally, but they were never brought down to the level of African slaves (unless they were kidnapped Coolies or prostitutes, but the former went mostly to South America). Interesting question though; after the Civil War when the African slaves were for the most part "free," Southern plantation owners thught that they would be able to use Chinese laborers as a replacement source of cheap labor;

however, the Chinese got wise and made the plantation owners draft contracts, and if the plantation owner was to breach his contract with the Chinese, they would sue and usually win their case.."

Were Chinese slaves in the Civil War

150 Years Ago, Chinese Railroad Workers Staged the Era's Largest Labor Strike

The Chinese railroad workers were grading and digging tunnels across a stretch of the Sierras when they decided to lay down their tools. It was the end of June 1867 and snow still covered the mountain tops.

The men, many of them from Canton in southern China, had demands: They wanted pay equal to whites, shorter workdays, and better conditions for building the country’s first transcontinental railroad.

So they put them to their employer, the Central Pacific Railroad, and a strike was on.

150 years ago, Chinese railroad workers staged the era's largest labor strike

They were slaves. They did not get paid the same wage as others and they worked dangerous jobs in which they were basically disposable. Many Chinese women are still trafficked sex slaves even today.

In fact it was so bad that the very first immigration law voted in by Congress involved Asians.

They were not slaves and that's a fact. The were laborers who were paid and as you have been shown were able to strike for higher wages. Black slaves could not do that. Now don't get it twisted because Chinese have faced the same continuing white racism we have aside from slavery.

Getting paid pennies on the dollar and being forced to live in buildings owned by their bosses, and buy food and other things from their bosses who charged high unfair prices, is slavery. They were brought to the U.S. under false pretenses and thrown into an environment that cost them more to work than what they made. They could never earn enough money to pay back the employers for the cost of bringing them to the U.S.

Blacks got zero pennies on the dollar. For 224 years. Chinese faced severe racism and oppression but they were never slaves and you don't get to redefine slavery because you want to argue with me.

 

[IM2]

I don't adhere to the failed philosophy of Booker T. Washington.

Conservatives believe none of that. OK? Whites have not got what they have by those methods. That's a damn lie and as you study parts of history, maybe expand your studies to learn just how much whites have depended on government. After you do that, you'll understand that government size did not become a problem until all races were made to be included.

Now you talk all that Christian stuff, but there is a spiritual law that has been broken by this government. And God doesn't hear excuses.

Thanks for your honest response IM2
I can see where we talk past each other if we are coming
from diverging perspectives.

All the people I know who have succeeded sustainably
did so by ABUNDANCE mentality not scarcity mentality.
The corrupt powermongers who don't last but collapse
are based on UNFAIR competition and cutthroat tactics to win. I am guessing you mean that is what you oppose, the OPPRESSIVE abuse of influence and resources to win by making other people lose.

But that's NOT what I am saying.

The people coming up from nothing did so by investing work and labor and then attracting others to invest in them so they built based on ownership. Not on handouts.

Could you and I agree that we need a way to help people gain equal ownership and empowerment, but in a good, stabilizing way. NOT in the ways you see as failed, where there is exploitation going on or oppression that cannot sustain.

Do you agree that when people are supported to gain and grow their own businesses, schools, communities, etc. that is more powerful and sustainable than if this depends on someone else funding it where it will fall apart without that outside help.

Are we talking about the same things, but from two different angles? Thanks IM2 and sorry for talking past each other on this.

the best models I've found for implementing the best of free market and the best of social support guaranteed by govt are the Cooperative programs where workers own their own management of their production as a team, and the Microlending financial training and business planning programs.

What are you talking about as the FAILED part
and what do you see as the SOLUTIONS IM2

Emily do not adopt the white racist lies. Blacks have risen from slavery to the 8-9th largest economy on earth. And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts. Again you need to expand your study of American history to learn the complete story.

No hand outs? That's a flat out lie. I'm not saying Blacks get EXTRA hand outs compared to other people, though you have groups like the United Negro College Fund, but to say "no hand outs" is a complete lie. Lots of people get hand outs, like small business grants especially in poor neighborhoods that need new business development. Or hand outs in the forms of assistance with getting special mortgage loans with little to no money down and no closing costs. Do you think telling lies to make it sound more difficult than ever it will give you more legitimacy?

I said no handouts and that's what I mean. None of the things you mention are only for blacks. And the UNCF is not a government handout.

You didn't say government hand outs... and you certainly didn't say that Blacks didn't get hand outs (That were just for Blacks).

You said, "And we are the ones who did it facing continuing racism from whites and no handouts."

I know what I said. Whites were given things and the rules excluded anybody not white. So can the crap.

 

[Kondor3]

Reparations? Not a snowball's chance in Hell... goddamned lunatic LibTards...