Simple question: If you have a single payer system

[Mojo2]

Obamacare: It’s Still a Gateway to Single-Payer Health Care

By Sen. Tom Coburn
September 6, 2012 5:30 PM


More than two years after the passage of Obamacare, the data overwhelmingly show the law will fail to achieve its core objectives of lowering costs and improving access. That, ironically, may have been the design. By making private insurance unaffordable for everyone, it will become available to no one.

All that will be left is government-centered, government-run, single-payer health care.

Obamacare: It?s Still a Gateway to Single-Payer Health Care | National Review Online

And when Government controls your health care they control you!

 

[Mojo2]

Every major repressive regime of the modern era has begun with an attempt to control and intimidate the press."

Not really. That's second, a very close second. But you want to know the truth?

Every major repressive Regime of the modern era has begun with universal health care. That's the first thing Hitler did. That's partly how you get the media on your side. Is it championing issues all of them support. Then you go get total control over them. But health care is the first thing, because that is direct control, total control over everybody in your country.

So it's health care they go after first, repressive regimes.

It's not the media. And just as it is elsewhere around the world, it's health care here, and now they're going for the media.

Journalists Won't Put Up with Regime Monitors in Newsrooms? Don't Be So Sure... - The Rush Limbaugh Show

 

[Jarlaxle]

The rest of the world has single payer and it's far more effective and efficient than your current system. Cheaper too.

A third of your health care $$$ go to administration. Under single payer, it's less than 10%.

That must be why when he needed surgery, a big-shot politician from YOUR country came to the US!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Finally, someone admits it.

The tipping point has been coming for decades. The only question is was it helped? Helped or not, the car going over the cliff was never in question.

Obamacare is pushing it over the cliff, moron.

As intended, of course.

 

[Old Rocks]

doesn't that mean JUST ONE payer?
In the case of Obama who like other idiots totally forget the simple fact when they state:
"“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” ...Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 | Physicians for a National Health Program -


WHAT happens to the 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???
What happens to the $100 billion a year they pay in Federal/state/local taxes if there is a "single payer"?
What happens to the office spaces they pay property taxes on if there is a single payer?
What happens to the 400,000 employees of these 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???

See this is such a perfect example of Obama's socialist tendency and ignorance of insurance,etc. that he like the other idiots preferring "single payer" don't comprehend the "COSTS"!

These companies also have to comply with state insurance regulators to have the reserves to pay future claims.
What are these reserves and where will they go if there is a "single payer" system?

Anyone who understands health insurance, reserves, profits, etc... they know and you think the crash of 1929 was bad???

Most pension plans, 401ks etc. have money in these "PAYERS"... what happens when these "payers" go out out of business because Obama..
“happens to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

What then folks???

Well now, most of the other industrialized nations have just such a system. And they manage quite well, with far better medical stastitics than we have. Perhaps we should not try to re-invent the wheel, just take a page out of their book.

 

[FJO]

If Medicare/Medicaid included EVERYONE, would that be a single-payer system?

And if Medicare/Medicaid considered to be 'good', would not single-payer system be considered good?

 

[editec]

doesn't that mean JUST ONE payer?
In the case of Obama who like other idiots totally forget the simple fact when they state:
"“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” ...Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 | Physicians for a National Health Program -


WHAT happens to the 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???
What happens to the $100 billion a year they pay in Federal/state/local taxes if there is a "single payer"?
What happens to the office spaces they pay property taxes on if there is a single payer?
What happens to the 400,000 employees of these 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???

See this is such a perfect example of Obama's socialist tendency and ignorance of insurance,etc. that he like the other idiots preferring "single payer" don't comprehend the "COSTS"!

These companies also have to comply with state insurance regulators to have the reserves to pay future claims.
What are these reserves and where will they go if there is a "single payer" system?

Anyone who understands health insurance, reserves, profits, etc... they know and you think the crash of 1929 was bad???

Most pension plans, 401ks etc. have money in these "PAYERS"... what happens when these "payers" go out out of business because Obama..
“happens to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

What then folks???

You have just hit on the best argument for NOT implementing single payer.

The disruption of the market will be considerable.

Nevertheless in the medium run Single Payer would benefit society more than it would disturb the markets.

Why?

Because Single payer would (if properly done) reduce the COST OF HEALTH CARE by about 25%.

That means that instead of 18% OF THE GDP GOING TO HEALTH CARE, the cost would go down to about 14%


That's a staggering amount of savings..about 4% of $14 TRILLION dollars.

 

[deltex1]

WHAT happens to the 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???
What happens to the $100 billion a year they pay in Federal/state/local taxes if there is a "single payer"?
What happens to the office spaces they pay property taxes on if there is a single payer?
What happens to the 400,000 employees of these 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???

1. They go into other lines of insurance, if they can.
2. They paid taxes on profits. Now we keep the profits in the system
3. Less property taxes unless we use the space or someone else does.
4. They get other jobs, maybe with the new system? The concept is called Creative Destruction. It means something like a car comes along and suddenly buggy whip makers are few are far between. That's Capitalism and this is government but it means the same thing. The rules changed and now you need a different job. It's normal and no reason to keep a broken system in place.

Single-payer Universal is how you get a bang for your buck. It's Public Healthcare, and it's hardly perfect but the majority will be better off and so will the society that has to pick up the tab. If you are nine and need a liver, you're in luck. If you are 9-months, it might be a toss up. if you are 90, see ya Grandpa. Thanks for the memories. It's realistic, cost-effective, and can be brutal. That's life on this rock.

Just think how it is when you renew your drivers license...except the guy behind you is puking on your shoes and your doctor has puss coming out of his middle finger.

 

[healthmyths]

The rest of the world has single payer and it's far more effective and efficient than your current system. Cheaper too.

A third of your health care $$$ go to administration. Under single payer, it's less than 10%.

LIE!!! 1/3 DOES NOT go to administration!!! 16% dumb f...k!

The facts are:80% of every dollar in premium goes to pay CLAIMS!

http://www.naic.org/documents/frs_financial_summit_presentations_28_mlr_solvency_issues.pdf

"The rest of the world single payer" as if Cuba's health system is an example?


And why are you defending millionaire lawyers that according to the people that SEND the claims that make up
$850 billion a year in duplicate tests, i.e. Doctors say they do this out of fear of lawsuits!
What is wrong with TAXING lawyers 10% of their $270 billion and paying the premium for the truly less then 4 million
that want and need insurance? Then the hospitals don't have over charge Medicare/insurance their handling of uninsured.
In one simple stroke that USES exactly what ACA does i.e. taxes tanning salons as tanning causes cancer.. then
TAX LAWYERS as they've cause $850 billion a year ! $850 Billion duplicate tests,etc. all caused by FEAR of lawsuits!

Why do you stupidly defend lawyers that cause that tremendous WASTE which if reduced by 20% means a direct
reduction in health insurance premiums! DIRECT reduction..
But stupid grossly uninformed idiots like you have NO concept of what you are writing about!

 

[Darkwind]

After the total fiasco of obamacare no one would tolerate giving the government more health care power.

It has a 1/3rd of the population now and when it crashes another 1/3rd might have nothing. They will take what they are given, in this case, SPU. Stop looking through your ideology glasses. Ayn Rand is not coming back like Jesus.

You should study history. Specifically, the toadies that just carried out orders and what happened to them when they were overthrown. Becaus that will come faster than the people just accepting brutal government in the wake of a collapse.

 

[healthmyths]

doesn't that mean JUST ONE payer?
In the case of Obama who like other idiots totally forget the simple fact when they state:
"“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” ...Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 | Physicians for a National Health Program -


WHAT happens to the 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???
What happens to the $100 billion a year they pay in Federal/state/local taxes if there is a "single payer"?
What happens to the office spaces they pay property taxes on if there is a single payer?
What happens to the 400,000 employees of these 1,300 existing "PAYERS"???

See this is such a perfect example of Obama's socialist tendency and ignorance of insurance,etc. that he like the other idiots preferring "single payer" don't comprehend the "COSTS"!

These companies also have to comply with state insurance regulators to have the reserves to pay future claims.
What are these reserves and where will they go if there is a "single payer" system?

Anyone who understands health insurance, reserves, profits, etc... they know and you think the crash of 1929 was bad???

Most pension plans, 401ks etc. have money in these "PAYERS"... what happens when these "payers" go out out of business because Obama..
“happens to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

What then folks???

You have just hit on the best argument for NOT implementing single payer.

The disruption of the market will be considerable.

Nevertheless in the medium run Single Payer would benefit society more than it would disturb the markets.

Why?

Because Single payer would (if properly done) reduce the COST OF HEALTH CARE by about 25%.

That means that instead of 18% OF THE GDP GOING TO HEALTH CARE, the cost would go down to about 14%


That's a staggering amount of savings..about 4% of $14 TRILLION dollars.

Where is you f..k source for that stupid statistic SINGLE payer reduce the cost by 25%!

NOW why are you defending millionaires??? I thought people like YOU hated them! Want to TAX them??
SO why not tax 10% of the $270 billion lawyers make and use that to pay premiums for the truly 4 million uninsured???
The actual people REAL people that created the $850 billion a year i.e. do you realize these doctors run duplicate tests that are PAID by insurance/medicare/out of pocket??
90% of these real doctors say they do it out of FEAR of LAWSUITS!!!

HERE ARE MY FACTS ... dispute!
90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

 

[Redfish]

The rest of the world has single payer and it's far more effective and efficient than your current system. Cheaper too.

A third of your health care $$$ go to administration. Under single payer, it's less than 10%.

totally wrong on all counts. Ask the brits or the canadians. Its not cheaper, its not better. Do you think a huge govt beaurocracy is FREE? are you completely ignorant?

 

[Darkwind]

Anyone familiar with the "Kids for cash" scandal?

Now take that to the federal level and apply it to those who don't pay the party line.....


That is what single payer will be.

 

[healthmyths]

If Medicare/Medicaid included EVERYONE, would that be a single-payer system?

And if Medicare/Medicaid considered to be 'good', would not single-payer system be considered good?

How good is Medicare/Medicaid if:
1) Medicare pays sometimes 6,000% more then the costs?
Source: Medicare OPPS claims data are for calendar year ending 12/31/2012 (Final rule OPPS).
Medicare Provider Charge Data: Outpatient - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Florida Hospital Tampa 3100 East Fletcher Avenue Tampa, FL 33613
Florida hospital filed 1,120 claims for Computed Tomography without Contrast
Each claim they filed with Medicare was for $3,639.
Each CAT scan cost the hospital - $59

A total markup of $3,580.00 over the cost to do the service of:
6,067.8% MARK UP over costs!

2) How good is Medicaid if according to the Census 14 million people are NOT registered with Medicaid even though they qualify on poverty level..
And this was BEFORE ACA!!! As a result the bogus number of 46 million uninsured INCLUDED 14 million that Medicaid agrees THEY are covered!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
"Of the 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured individuals identified in the 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) data, nearly one-third —
almost 14 million — were reachable through existing government health programs such as Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) under current rules!

So YOU people want Medicare/Medicaid to continue this???

 

[Redfish]

Anyone familiar with the "Kids for cash" scandal?

Now take that to the federal level and apply it to those who don't pay the party line.....


That is what single payer will be.

The libs bitch about fraud in medicare and medicaid today------just wait until we have single payer, then they will see what fraud really looks like.

 

[Darkwind]

Anyone familiar with the "Kids for cash" scandal?

Now take that to the federal level and apply it to those who don't pay the party line.....


That is what single payer will be.

The libs bitch about fraud in medicare and medicaid today------just wait until we have single payer, then they will see what fraud really looks like.

They will then get to see what real corruption looks like. They will long for the days when there were only a few corrupt corporations that were held accountable for wrong-doings. After all, when your government can make a profit to the tune of 4 or 5 trillion dollars.....who among them will allow the citizen to stop it?

 

[Redfish]

Anyone familiar with the "Kids for cash" scandal?

Now take that to the federal level and apply it to those who don't pay the party line.....


That is what single payer will be.

The libs bitch about fraud in medicare and medicaid today------just wait until we have single payer, then they will see what fraud really looks like.

They will then get to see what real corruption looks like. They will long for the days when there were only a few corrupt corporations that were held accountable for wrong-doings. After all, when your government can make a profit to the tune of 4 or 5 trillion dollars.....who among them will allow the citizen to stop it?

the left wing idiots call insurance companies evil, they have no idea how evil a socialist totalitarian government can be.

it is really scary that roughly half of the population is hopelessly ignorant.

 

[Darkwind]

The libs bitch about fraud in medicare and medicaid today------just wait until we have single payer, then they will see what fraud really looks like.

They will then get to see what real corruption looks like. They will long for the days when there were only a few corrupt corporations that were held accountable for wrong-doings. After all, when your government can make a profit to the tune of 4 or 5 trillion dollars.....who among them will allow the citizen to stop it?

the left wing idiots call insurance companies evil, they have no idea how evil a socialist totalitarian government can be.

it is really scary that roughly half of the population is hopelessly ignorant.

A program that has been effective; keeping the public in ignorance and feeding them the party line. Over half this country thinks that government is on their side while evil corporations are out to enslave them. Exactly 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

 

[Redfish]

They will then get to see what real corruption looks like. They will long for the days when there were only a few corrupt corporations that were held accountable for wrong-doings. After all, when your government can make a profit to the tune of 4 or 5 trillion dollars.....who among them will allow the citizen to stop it?

the left wing idiots call insurance companies evil, they have no idea how evil a socialist totalitarian government can be.

it is really scary that roughly half of the population is hopelessly ignorant.

A program that has been effective; keeping the public in ignorance and feeding them the party line. Over half this country thinks that government is on their side while evil corporations are out to enslave them. Exactly 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

yep, thanks to the teachers union and the biased lying media.

 

[bripat9643]

The rest of the world has single payer and it's far more effective and efficient than your current system. Cheaper too.

A third of your health care $$$ go to administration. Under single payer, it's less than 10%.

totally wrong on all counts. Ask the brits or the canadians. Its not cheaper, its not better. Do you think a huge govt beaurocracy is FREE? are you completely ignorant?

It's cheaper only because they ration healthcare. People have to wait a long time to get treated. No new drugs are developed in these countries, so the cost of developing is born by American consumers. Of course, that will change once Obamacare is in full swing. Then all new drug development will come to a halt. Also, doctors are paid a lot less in these countries. That's why a lot of them come to the United States. It also contributes to a severe shortage of doctors over there.

I'm sure looking forward to that!