Shutdown Fallout Effects....

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump wanted 30 billion for the wall. He scaled that down to 5 billion. Trump believes according to his experts, that it's enough to erect a wall in critical areas. It has nothing to do with the money. It has to do with erecting a structure that will work. Democrats don't want it to work. They want to keep letting in these murderers, rapists and drug dealers entering our country.

You do realize his plans now have changed to building a barrier on only 10% of the border. I wonder what his supporters think of leaving 90% of the border without the barrier.

We're not happy about it, but we can't even get the 10% from the Democrats, so we are more pissed off at them.

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That makes no sense. Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere in 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

 

[Lesh]

View attachment 240201

TSA workers

ICE

Coast Guard

Border Patrol

IRS (yes you want your tax return)

Courts

National Park folks

Yea...who needs any of that

 

[eagle1462010]

Nope..........the shutdown hasn't affected me at all .........After 3 weeks.........Ho hum

 

[Ambivalent1]

Nope..........the shutdown hasn't affected me at all .........After 3 weeks.........Ho hum

Me either, but hey we don't DEPEND on them for anything.

 

[Flopper]

You do realize his plans now have changed to building a barrier on only 10% of the border. I wonder what his supporters think of leaving 90% of the border without the barrier.

We're not happy about it, but we can't even get the 10% from the Democrats, so we are more pissed off at them.

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or Baha as the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere on 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

 

[basquebromance]

my friends, Cocaine Mitch has been MIA, maybe he's in the witness protection program?

 

[easyt65]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We're not happy about it, but we can't even get the 10% from the Democrats, so we are more pissed off at them.

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or Baha as the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere on 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

 

[Flopper]

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or Baha as the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere on 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

 

[Flopper]

You do realize his plans now have changed to building a barrier on only 10% of the border. I wonder what his supporters think of leaving 90% of the border without the barrier.

We're not happy about it, but we can't even get the 10% from the Democrats, so we are more pissed off at them.

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That makes no sense. Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere in 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Although it is possible Trump and the republicans could capture government for 4 years but looking at history that seems unlikely. Less than 1/3 of the time does a single party control government. Most of the time, government control is split between the parties.

However, 4 years of control by Trump and the republicans would not be enough. We are talking about a project that will last 10 years and that's a very conservative estimate. It could go 12 to 15 years. Any project of that magnitude requires support from both sides or it can't be completed. Considering what happened with healthcare when republicans got control of government, I wouldn't be surprised if democrats took down whatever Trump built.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or Baha as the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere on 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

This isn't about Mexicans only, it's about all who cross into Mexico and make it to our borders as well. The last estimate I seen was over 300,000. And those where just the ones they caught. Lord knows how many got in that were not caught.

Why don't you write a letter to the family of that officer in California and tell them how much better things are because we have less apprehensions than seventeen years ago? Why don't you tell the family of Kate Steinle how we no longer need border walls because everything is under control? In fact, set up a meeting with all the Angle families and tell them how much better things are because we have less illegals coming into the country as before, or perhaps our policies will change. I'm sure they'd love your input.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We're not happy about it, but we can't even get the 10% from the Democrats, so we are more pissed off at them.

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That makes no sense. Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere in 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Although it is possible Trump and the republicans could capture government for 4 years but looking at history that seems unlikely. Less than 1/3 of the time does a single party control government. Most of the time, government control is split between the parties.

However, 4 years of control by Trump and the republicans would not be enough. We are talking about a project that will last 10 years and that's a very conservative estimate. It could go 12 to 15 years. Any project of that magnitude requires support from both sides or it can't be completed. Considering what happened with healthcare when republicans got control of government, I wouldn't be surprised if democrats took down whatever Trump built.

I hope they do take down what Trump builds because it would finally prove to everybody in this country that Democrats are for illegals getting in and against the American citizen. Right now, they keep lying to the public telling us (from Puerto Rico or Hawaii) how concerned they are with border security.

Yes, a lot of things can happen between now and the next election. But riddle me this: what happens if we had a terrorist attack similar or greater than 911, and it was revealed that they got in through the Mexican border? Think the entire country would not be supportive of that wall then regardless how long it takes or what it costs?

Unfortunately, that might be what it takes for people to come to their senses. Either that or such a severe outbreak of disease that more Americans are brought to their death because of foreigners.

 

[eagle1462010]

Hasn't effected me yet.........

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Trump has increased Latino support by 19% in one month

 

[JBond]

while Trump cries to cameras about protecting America , his actions actually do the opposite.

If getting rid of illegals is such an important focus , then you should want to end the shutdown .

Maybe use wall money to find more courts and judges so we can get through the huge immigration court backlogs .


Immigration courts at a standstill during government shutdown, undermining President Trump's agenda


Far from the president’s rallying cry of “securing our border,” delaying court hearings puts additional strain on the immigration system, while allowing those who would have been deported to stay in the country for possibly years longer as they await new court dates.

It is a shame the dems have decided not to pay employees. Not atypical. Bunch of cheap ass bitches. Trump didn't shut down a damn thing. Congress did.

 

[Flopper]

Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or Baha as the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere on 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

This isn't about Mexicans only, it's about all who cross into Mexico and make it to our borders as well. The last estimate I seen was over 300,000. And those where just the ones they caught. Lord knows how many got in that were not caught.

Why don't you write a letter to the family of that officer in California and tell them how much better things are because we have less apprehensions than seventeen years ago? Why don't you tell the family of Kate Steinle how we no longer need border walls because everything is under control? In fact, set up a meeting with all the Angle families and tell them how much better things are because we have less illegals coming into the country as before, or perhaps our policies will change. I'm sure they'd love your input.

You ignore the fact that crime rates of the native population are much greater than either undocumented immigrants or legal immigrants. As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans. The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate.

Another study, published in March in the journal Criminology, looked at population-level crime rates throughout the country. States with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014.

Using isolated incidents of horrific crimes to attack minorities is nothing new. From homosexuals in the US, to Jews in Nazi Germany, to the Rohingya communities in Burma to religious violence in Central African Republic, to Christians in ancient Rome, it always the same. The isolated violent acts of the few are used to turn public opinion against the minority.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
Analysis | Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime

 

[Flopper]

The reason you can't get the 10% is it makes even less sense than 100%. If you had a thousand foot property border around your house, would you build a hundred foot long wall then claim it will keep out intruders? It's this kind of craziness that surrounds Trump, that keeps congress from trusting him. You can't depend on anything he says.

Terrible comparison. It only takes seconds to walk a hundred feet. It’s different if you have to go 50 miles to get around a wall. Plus the fact there will be more agents in the open spaces and there are natural barriers where there is no wall.

It has nothing to do with making sense or not, it has to do with Democrats wanting the continuation of illegals entering the country.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

That makes no sense. Crossing the border illegally is rarely an unplanned event. As we know quite well, migrants travel hundreds and thousands of miles to cross the border. They can just as easily go to Sonora as Juarez, or the Rio Grande Valley. Within days of completion of the Wall, migrants will be selecting another crossing somewhere in 1800 miles of un-walled border. All Trump is doing is making a 10% section of the border more difficult to cross, assuming the wall every get's built.

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Although it is possible Trump and the republicans could capture government for 4 years but looking at history that seems unlikely. Less than 1/3 of the time does a single party control government. Most of the time, government control is split between the parties.

However, 4 years of control by Trump and the republicans would not be enough. We are talking about a project that will last 10 years and that's a very conservative estimate. It could go 12 to 15 years. Any project of that magnitude requires support from both sides or it can't be completed. Considering what happened with healthcare when republicans got control of government, I wouldn't be surprised if democrats took down whatever Trump built.

I hope they do take down what Trump builds because it would finally prove to everybody in this country that Democrats are for illegals getting in and against the American citizen. Right now, they keep lying to the public telling us (from Puerto Rico or Hawaii) how concerned they are with border security.

Yes, a lot of things can happen between now and the next election. But riddle me this: what happens if we had a terrorist attack similar or greater than 911, and it was revealed that they got in through the Mexican border? Think the entire country would not be supportive of that wall then regardless how long it takes or what it costs?

Unfortunately, that might be what it takes for people to come to their senses. Either that or such a severe outbreak of disease that more Americans are brought to their death because of foreigners.

Since we had 10 times as many terrorists or at least those on the watch list coming into the US on commercial airlines than crossing the southern border, I would say that it is highly unlikely. However, what is a lot more likely is Trump's insane shutdown of government in order to build walls will certainly created an opportunity for terrorism or other disasters in the sky as the TSA and FAA struggle to us safe.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Rome wasn't built in a day. For all we know, 2020 elections could swing hard our way. If Trump gets reelected, we get the House back and a few more Senators, we could be looking at even more wall.

Ted Cruze is talking about re-introducing the El-Chapo bill. If successful (which I doubt) that would give us access up to 14 billion dollars and none of it a taxpayer dime. If Democrats vote that down, it will clearly demonstrate it's not about money, it's about stopping a wall from being built no matter what.

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

This isn't about Mexicans only, it's about all who cross into Mexico and make it to our borders as well. The last estimate I seen was over 300,000. And those where just the ones they caught. Lord knows how many got in that were not caught.

Why don't you write a letter to the family of that officer in California and tell them how much better things are because we have less apprehensions than seventeen years ago? Why don't you tell the family of Kate Steinle how we no longer need border walls because everything is under control? In fact, set up a meeting with all the Angle families and tell them how much better things are because we have less illegals coming into the country as before, or perhaps our policies will change. I'm sure they'd love your input.

You ignore the fact that crime rates of the native population are much greater than either undocumented immigrants or legal immigrants. As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans. The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate.

Another study, published in March in the journal Criminology, looked at population-level crime rates throughout the country. States with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014.

Using isolated incidents of horrific crimes to attack minorities is nothing new. From homosexuals in the US, to Jews in Nazi Germany, to the Rohingya communities in Burma to religious violence in Central African Republic, to Christians in ancient Rome, it always the same. The isolated violent acts of the few are used to turn public opinion against the minority.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
Analysis | Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime

Well guess what? It worked.

Every society has problems with THEIR OWN people just as we do. Those crimes can seldom be prevented. However with the murders, rapes and intoxication that causes car accidents that kill Americans by illegals, that is preventable............totally preventable. Just keep them out and keep deporting the ones already here.

If it were possible for us to invent technology that would prevent violent crimes, that technology would be worth billions of dollars today. Yet when we have the ability to stop illegals from using violence against our own people, Democrats get in the way to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Flopper]

Of course, building the wall is a stupid idea and democrats should fight it.

• The size of the undocumented population is at a 12 year low and the size continues to drop.
• The numbers of apprehensions at the border are at a 40 year low There were 81,000 apprehensions per month under Bush, 38,000 a month under Obama, and since Trump took office 32,000 a month.
• The Heritage Group, a conservative think tank says undocumented immigrants cost the goverment, federal, state, and local) 54 billion dollars a year, 50% higher than Pew Research, and 25% of what Trump claims. Putting this in prospective, the cost of all social welfare programs in the country is approximately 1 trillion dollars. Undocumented immigrant's share is between 3% and 5%, a far cry from the claims of Trump and the alt right.

The bottom line is that building walls along the border is a solution for yesterday's problem. The biggest undocumented immigrant problem is overstaying visas. All the walls in the world with not solve that problem. What we need is a change in immigration laws and a tracking system. The biggest problem at the border is not people climbing fences but people walking through ports of entry and cargo entering the US containing migrants and drugs. Again, a problem that walls will not help.
Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia
Stats and Summaries | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

This isn't about Mexicans only, it's about all who cross into Mexico and make it to our borders as well. The last estimate I seen was over 300,000. And those where just the ones they caught. Lord knows how many got in that were not caught.

Why don't you write a letter to the family of that officer in California and tell them how much better things are because we have less apprehensions than seventeen years ago? Why don't you tell the family of Kate Steinle how we no longer need border walls because everything is under control? In fact, set up a meeting with all the Angle families and tell them how much better things are because we have less illegals coming into the country as before, or perhaps our policies will change. I'm sure they'd love your input.

You ignore the fact that crime rates of the native population are much greater than either undocumented immigrants or legal immigrants. As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans. The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate.

Another study, published in March in the journal Criminology, looked at population-level crime rates throughout the country. States with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014.

Using isolated incidents of horrific crimes to attack minorities is nothing new. From homosexuals in the US, to Jews in Nazi Germany, to the Rohingya communities in Burma to religious violence in Central African Republic, to Christians in ancient Rome, it always the same. The isolated violent acts of the few are used to turn public opinion against the minority.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
Analysis | Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime

Well guess what? It worked.

Every society has problems with THEIR OWN people just as we do. Those crimes can seldom be prevented. However with the murders, rapes and intoxication that causes car accidents that kill Americans by illegals, that is preventable............totally preventable. Just keep them out and keep deporting the ones already here.

If it were possible for us to invent technology that would prevent violent crimes, that technology would be worth billions of dollars today. Yet when we have the ability to stop illegals from using violence against our own people, Democrats get in the way to make sure that doesn't happen.

They get in the way because your vision of America is far from reality. The Alt-Right can't win, but they sure can hurt a lot of people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Even using your estimates, that's nearly 400,000 people a year apprehended at the border. I would say that justifies a wall.

Just because it's lower now doesn't mean squat. That's like saying your town had 20 women raped every year, and now that it's down to 10 a year, there is no need to try to reduce those numbers any further.

Yes, overstays are a problem, but not nearly the problem border crossers are. At least we have an idea who came in with Visa's, but we have no idea who is crossing that border. They could be (and probably are) gang members, people with diseases, people unable to speak our language or understand our culture, people with violent criminal histories.

The point is that over the last 15 years, arrests have been going down, not up. You would think they would be rising because of better security, increases in the border patrol, better barriers, and more technology. The fact that they are falling means fewer people are trying to come into the US illegally. In 2000, there were 1.6 million Mexicans apprehended at the border. In 2017, there were 130,000.

The decreases in illegal immigration, resistance to building walls, and the time it will take to build a enough walls to seriously decrease illegal immigration is a strong argument against building walls.

Long before we complete the 1000 miles of walls Homeland Security claims are needed, illegal immigration will have changed drastically and probably our immigration laws.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico

This isn't about Mexicans only, it's about all who cross into Mexico and make it to our borders as well. The last estimate I seen was over 300,000. And those where just the ones they caught. Lord knows how many got in that were not caught.

Why don't you write a letter to the family of that officer in California and tell them how much better things are because we have less apprehensions than seventeen years ago? Why don't you tell the family of Kate Steinle how we no longer need border walls because everything is under control? In fact, set up a meeting with all the Angle families and tell them how much better things are because we have less illegals coming into the country as before, or perhaps our policies will change. I'm sure they'd love your input.

You ignore the fact that crime rates of the native population are much greater than either undocumented immigrants or legal immigrants. As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans. The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 85 percent below the native-born rate.

Another study, published in March in the journal Criminology, looked at population-level crime rates throughout the country. States with larger shares of undocumented immigrants tended to have lower crime rates than states with smaller shares in the years 1990 through 2014.

Using isolated incidents of horrific crimes to attack minorities is nothing new. From homosexuals in the US, to Jews in Nazi Germany, to the Rohingya communities in Burma to religious violence in Central African Republic, to Christians in ancient Rome, it always the same. The isolated violent acts of the few are used to turn public opinion against the minority.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
Analysis | Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime

Well guess what? It worked.

Every society has problems with THEIR OWN people just as we do. Those crimes can seldom be prevented. However with the murders, rapes and intoxication that causes car accidents that kill Americans by illegals, that is preventable............totally preventable. Just keep them out and keep deporting the ones already here.

If it were possible for us to invent technology that would prevent violent crimes, that technology would be worth billions of dollars today. Yet when we have the ability to stop illegals from using violence against our own people, Democrats get in the way to make sure that doesn't happen.

They get in the way because your vision of America is far from reality. The Alt-Right can't win, but they sure can hurt a lot of people.

Outside of illegals and the snowflakes on the left that want to see us turn into a third world country, who are we hurting? That's like saying I hurt the burglar because I got a house alarm.