Shouldn't the Rosenberg's, executed for passing atomic secrets be pardoned!

[Tom Paine 1949]

I am curious if Hawk1981 or any other informed person here can estimate how much difference the information provided by the Rosenberg’s spying actually mattered. My understanding is that the Soviets would have succeeded building a bomb almost as quickly in any case. After all even the Chinese, under far more primitive conditions and with far fewer resources, built their own bomb.

Was it really true that important “secrets” of building a bomb were sent by these — apparently sincere and dedicated — communist agents to the USSR?

Also, given they were not motivated by cash or self interest but rather some kind of idealism, does anybody know — or can anybody guess — what they knew or thought about Stalin’s bloody dictatorship, the Moscow Trials, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

 

[Hawk1981]

I am curious if Hawk1981 or any other informed person here can estimate how much difference the information provided by the Rosenberg’s spying actually mattered. My understanding is that the Soviets would have succeeded building a bomb almost as quickly in any case. After all even the Chinese, under far more primitive conditions and with far fewer resources, built their own bomb.

Was it really true that important “secrets” of building a bomb were sent by these — apparently sincere and dedicated — communist agents to the USSR?

Also, given they were not motivated by cash or self interest but rather some kind of idealism, does anybody know — or can anybody guess — what they knew or thought about Stalin’s bloody dictatorship, the Moscow Trials, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

At most, the atomic spy ring saved Soviet scientists from a few months to a year in development time to build their own device. The information provided gave some engineering insights and confirmed educated conjectures that directed Soviet engineers in the right direction.

Designing an atomic weapon is not an especially difficult exercise. Obtaining and refining enough fissionable material to build a working bomb has always been the more difficult part of the process.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

I am curious if Hawk1981 or any other informed person here can estimate how much difference the information provided by the Rosenberg’s spying actually mattered. My understanding is that the Soviets would have succeeded building a bomb almost as quickly in any case. After all even the Chinese, under far more primitive conditions and with far fewer resources, built their own bomb.

Was it really true that important “secrets” of building a bomb were sent by these — apparently sincere and dedicated — communist agents to the USSR?

Also, given they were not motivated by cash or self interest but rather some kind of idealism, does anybody know — or can anybody guess — what they knew or thought about Stalin’s bloody dictatorship, the Moscow Trials, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?

The most prominent spy during the Manhatan project and after was Klaus Fuchs. He was in the inner circle of leading scientists and could understand the information he was passing. He had Harry Gold as a courier an American citizen who was sentenced to 30 years but paroled after half that. David Greenglass himself a spy implicated the Rosenbergs but only got 15 years. He was a machinist wouldn't have understood or had access to the highly technical information the soviets needed. He later recanted his testimony saying he only implicated Ethel because the FBI had threatened to arrest his wife. As he provided the only evidence against her, Ethel's prosecution can be viewed as nothing other than 'unsafe''. The US was not at war. indeed the soviets were allies.
The very short trial. The relationship between prosecution and judge. Instead of the usual decade of appeals the executions were carried out after just three years. I think there is far more than 'reasonable doubt' here and it is high time the US authorities pardoned the Rosenbergs.

As for their motivations it should be remembered Fascism was on the rise in the 30's. Britain had an Empire and was a very class ridden society. Perhaps they thought democracy too weak and that countries would go one way or the other. British Universities were riddled with Marxist sympathizers - Burgess, McClean, Blunt.
Perhaps they viewed things through 'rose tinted glasses!'.

 

[Polishprince]

The most prominent spy during the Manhatan project and after was Klaus Fuchs. He was in the inner circle of leading scientists and could understand the information he was passing. He had Harry Gold as a courier an American citizen who was sentenced to 30 years but paroled after half that. David Greenglass himself a spy implicated the Rosenbergs but only got 15 years. He was a machinist wouldn't have understood or had access to the highly technical information the soviets needed. He later recanted his testimony saying he only implicated Ethel because the FBI had threatened to arrest his wife. As he provided the only evidence against her, Ethel's prosecution can be viewed as nothing other than 'unsafe''. The US was not at war. indeed the soviets were allies.
The very short trial. The relationship between prosecution and judge. Instead of the usual decade of appeals the executions were carried out after just three years. I think there is far more than 'reasonable doubt' here and it is high time the US authorities pardoned the Rosenbergs.

As for their motivations it should be remembered Fascism was on the rise in the 30's. Britain had an Empire and was a very class ridden society. Perhaps they thought democracy too weak and that countries would go one way or the other. British Universities were riddled with Marxist sympathizers - Burgess, McClean, Blunt.
Perhaps they viewed things through 'rose tinted glasses!'.

The idea of "decades" of appeals being usual, that wasn't the case in the 1950's. They moved a lot quicker. Even the guys who clipped the Clutter Family "In Cold Blood" were fried within 5 years or so and they had a powerful homosexual from New York funding their defense.

The extended periods between the trial and the electric chair didn't start until at least the 70's here in America.

 

[Quasar44]

For nearly 70 years their children have had to endure the injustice!

They had Soviet ties and leaked at some levels

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

They had Soviet ties and leaked at some levels

That's not what they were sentenced for but specifically passing atomic secrets to the soviets.
Indeed Eisenhower refused to commute their sentence because he said that they were directly responsible for the USSR having the bomb. Which was ridiculous!

 

[gulfman]

The Rosenbergs should be pardoned under the Bill and Hillary Clinton Act.The Clintons sold Uranium to Russia.Or else give the Clintons the same penalty.

 

[Quasar44]

That's not what they were sentenced for but specifically passing atomic secrets to the soviets.
Indeed Eisenhower refused to commute their sentence because he said that they were directly responsible for the USSR having the bomb. Which was ridiculous!

They did pass on classified info and paid the price
In the USA ..that is execution

 

[Quasar44]

That's not what they were sentenced for but specifically passing atomic secrets to the soviets.
Indeed Eisenhower refused to commute their sentence because he said that they were directly responsible for the USSR having the bomb. Which was ridiculous!

Both were allowed Jewish burials

 

[Desperado]

For nearly 70 years their children have had to endure the injustice!

Hell no. they were traitors and deserved what they got

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

They did pass on classified info and paid the price
In the USA ..that is execution

Donald Trump told Putin that Hilary Clinton was a rancid bitch - He didn't get executed!

 

[Polishprince]

That's not what they were sentenced for but specifically passing atomic secrets to the soviets.
Indeed Eisenhower refused to commute their sentence because he said that they were directly responsible for the USSR having the bomb. Which was ridiculous!

Actually, the Rosenbergs had plenty of opportunity to give their side of the story and explain who else was involved and how- fill in the FBI on exactly how they were involved. In fact, up to the hour of their execution, FBI agents were at Sing Sing Prison ready to interview them, and President Eisenhower was prepared to give them a stay and commutation, if they were willing to name names and inform the G Men, bringing the government up to speed on this conspiracy.

You have a point that the Julius and Ethel were probably not the masterminds.

But the Rosenbergs chose to take the fall for this and had an out, so eff em.

 

[Quasar44]

Donald Trump told Putin that Hilary Clinton was a rancid bitch - He didn't get executed!

Well she is the most corrupt and unscrupulous women in World history
She has made hundreds of millions using “ pay for play scams “when she was Secretary of State “

 

[Polishprince]

Donald Trump told Putin that Hilary Clinton was a rancid bitch - He didn't get executed!

That wasn't exactly classified information, Oz

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

Actually, the Rosenbergs had plenty of opportunity to give their side of the story and explain who else was involved and how- fill in the FBI on exactly how they were involved. In fact, up to the hour of their execution, FBI agents were at Sing Sing Prison ready to interview them, and President Eisenhower was prepared to give them a stay and commutation, if they were willing to name names and inform the G Men, bringing the government up to speed on this conspiracy.

You have a point that the Julius and Ethel were probably not the masterminds.
.
But the Rosenbergs chose to take the fall for this and had an out, so eff em.

They definately weren't the masterminds, try Fuchs & Gold but neither served more than 15 years.

How could they tell what they didn't know.

Using the threat of murder to grass up their mates a typical McCarthy tactic!

 

[westwall]

For nearly 70 years their children have had to endure the injustice!

Ummmm, no. Go troll someplace else.

 

[Polishprince]

They definately weren't the masterminds, try Fuchs & Gold but neither served more than 15 years.

How could they tell what they didn't know.

Using the threat of murder to grass up their mates a typical McCarthy tactic!

The FBI was convinced that the Rosenbergs knew more than what they were saying and more than what the government knew.

And the Rosenberg's weren't "murdered" , they were legally executed for a capital crime , found guilty by 12 angry men beyond a reasonable doubt.

Bending a defendant's arm to get him or her to drop a dime on his alleged accomplices- that's a standard tactic for American prosecutors. Has nothing to do with Joseph McCarthy. Its called "making a deal" or "copping a plea".

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Donald Trump told Putin that Hilary Clinton was a rancid bitch - He didn't get executed!

He wasn't passing on classified information at the time and many people have called Hilary Clinton far worst things than a Rancid Bitch...

Should the couple be pardon?

No!

They should have not been executed back then but it was a different time during the red scare, so they were made an example of...