Should Prisoners Be Allowed to Vote?

[archangel]

As I said before, their debt is never paid. Their crime resulted in pain to someone.

That pain and the memories associated with it never go away.

we were debating the rights to vote after the time was paid...not judgment when one gets to heaven!...Big difference...again you are the owned one!

 

[Annie]

There are different levels of felonies and high misdeameanors...a grey area...you are now equating child sex offenders to some who may have stolen? As the bible says violate one violate all...one in the same...I am compassionate when it comes to some but not all! Because I am humane not a Saint,Jesus or God...Jesus made this very clear!On the cross he forgave the thief but not the true sinner!

I'm not debating with God, nor will I pretend to be. If one chooses to break the laws of the land, one pays the price, including the restrictions of the privilege of voting, set by the individual states.

 

[GotZoom]

we were debating the rights to vote after the time was paid...not judgment when one gets to heaven!...Big difference...again you are the owned one!

I'm not talking about when one gets to heaven.

Seems like someone assumed.

Murder, theft, rape, etc. The "time" might be served by the felon, but the memories of the ones who these crimes were committed against, will never go away.

 

[archangel]

I'm not debating with God, nor will I pretend to be. If one chooses to break the laws of the land, one pays the price, including the restrictions of the privilege of voting, set by the individual states.

I just said in my opinion if a person has paid his/her time to society for the crime they have committed then they should be restored the right to vote...just a point of common law...they after all served the time prescribed by a jury of peers...kinda like paying off a credit card debt...has nothing to do with a moral judgment...this is reserved for GOD...IMO! Were we not taught to forgive if the person has repented?

 

[Annie]

I just said in my opinion if a person has paid his/her time to society for the crime they have committed then they should be restored the right to vote...just a point of common law...they after all served the time prescribed by a jury of peers...kinda like paying off a credit card debt...has nothing to do with a moral judgment...this is reserved for GOD...IMO! Were we not taught to forgive if the person has repented?

I cannot forgive someone who has done nothing to me, it's not my place. As a member of a state though, I can be of the opinion that if a fellow citizen decides to break our laws, they will pay the price, with loss of freedom for the time meted out and consequent punishment through revocation of privileges the state has set out.

Voting is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Shattered]

I just said in my opinion if a person has paid his/her time to society for the crime they have committed then they should be restored the right to vote...just a point of common law...they after all served the time prescribed by a jury of peers...kinda like paying off a credit card debt...has nothing to do with a moral judgment...this is reserved for GOD...IMO! Were we not taught to forgive if the person has repented?

So.. if a person murdered your grandaughter, and was given oh...say 15 years, would you still support their privilege (note: voting is NOT a right) to vote, and have a say in how this country is run?

When exactly would you think their "debt to society" has been paid? In the 15 years? 20 years? Or never?

What if you were the sole deciding factor on when their debt was paid?

 

[GotZoom]

I just said in my opinion if a person has paid his/her time to society for the crime they have committed then they should be restored the right to vote...just a point of common law...they after all served the time prescribed by a jury of peers...kinda like paying off a credit card debt...has nothing to do with a moral judgment...this is reserved for GOD...IMO! Were we not taught to forgive if the person has repented?

You are completely out of your mind.

Equating a rape or a murder to paying off a f'ing credit card debt?

You are telling us that a guy who is released from a 20 year sentence in prison for raping and murdering the 19 year old girl should be given all his rights back? He has paid his debt to society? Free to vote, carry a firearm, hold public office?

Nice that he can vote again.

That 19 year old won't.

 

[Annie]

You are completely out of your mind.

Equating a rape or a murder to paying off a f'ing credit card debt?

You are telling us that a guy who is released from a 20 year sentence in prison for raping and murdering the 19 year old girl should be given all his rights back? He has paid his debt to society? Free to vote, carry a firearm, hold public office?

Nice that he can vote again.

That 19 year old won't.

Exactly, let's use the 'white collar criminal' that Arch is so concerned about. My understanding is that in most, if not all states, a felon who has completed his sentence, then probation and any other 'stipulations', may apply to the governor for a resumption of privileges, including voting. I would assume that for such to be granted, the felon would have to have demonstrated their success of integrating themselves gainfully and legally back into society.

 

[Shattered]

You two shouldn't confuse the putz, or make him angry by using logic. After all, he's seen it all. He's done it all. He's got real life experience!

 

[GotZoom]

You two shouldn't confuse the putz, or make him angry by using logic. After all, he's seen it all. He's done it all. He's got real life experience!

Just ask him, he'll tell you.

 

[Shattered]

Just ask him, he'll tell you.

He'll tell you even if you don't ask.

And he'll tell you again just in case you missed it the first time.

 

[GotZoom]

He'll tell you even if you don't ask.

And he'll tell you again just in case you missed it the first time.

:rotflmao:

 

[Shattered]

:rotflmao:

<i>**feeds you second installment of chocolate**</i>

 

[GotZoom]

<i>**feeds you second installment of chocolate**</i>

**makes sure you don't have any left on your fingers*

 

[Adam's Apple]

I would assume that for such to be granted, the felon would have to have demonstrated their success of integrating themselves gainfully and legally back into society.

Let's hope this is required before any voting privileges are granted to former prisoners. I also think there should be a set number of years required with no further crimes committed on their records before the privilege of voting is restored to former prisoners. If they are fully rehabilitated, they should be allowed to vote; otherwise, no voting privileges restored.

 

[Gunny]

I spoke of felonies..anything that results in a felony conviction. Not sure how much clearer I can make that.

I won't bet you anything because I would lose. In fact, you would lose too.

(I can hear it now, you'll want both of us to list which ones we broke)

I would also bet dollars to donuts that if we were to use the Ten Commandments as the guide to determine voting eligibility, no one in the United States could vote.

And yes, I am very familiar with the expression.

I can't agree with you on this one. People can make mistakes that result in felony convictions. Our whole legal system is supposed to reside on the premise that once a debt is paid to society, one is free and clear.

While a person is serving his/her sentence, they should not have any but basic human rights. Once that sentence is served however, they should have all their rights restored.

And a listing of which Commandment's specifically were broken is unneccesary. I believe it is written that to violate one of God's laws is to violate them all.

 

[Annie]

I can't agree with you on this one. People can make mistakes that result in felony convictions. Our whole legal system is supposed to reside on the premise that once a debt is paid to society, one is free and clear.

While a person is serving his/her sentence, they should not have any but basic human rights. Once that sentence is served however, they should have all their rights restored.

And a listing of which Commandment's specifically were broken is unneccesary. I believe it is written that to violate one of God's laws is to violate them all.

I respectfully disagree with you Gunny, basic human rights are returned: freedom of movement, assembly, free speech, etc. Privileges though are optional. One needs to desire to earn those back, like trust. As Zoomie has pointed out, incarceration is usally the only 'pay back' for the victim, time served does not make them whole, it's not insurance.

 

[Gunny]

I respectfully disagree with you Gunny, basic human rights are returned: freedom of movement, assembly, free speech, etc. Privileges though are optional. One needs to desire to earn those back, like trust. As Zoomie has pointed out, incarceration is usally the only 'pay back' for the victim, time served does not make them whole, it's not insurance.

I am merely stating my opinion based on our current laws. But let me pose it to you this way .....

You commit a crime and do the time. While it may be the "only payback," it isn't exactly and extended stay in a Cancun resort. Having spent many months that add up to years at sea being confined to ships with the same people for extended periods, I can somewhat empathize with "living that one, really long day."

At any rate, the punishment for the crime has been handed out. Its' hardly fair to continue to heap on punishment after the fact when the person has served his time.

I could also caveat this with "it depends on the crime," but that is subjective and the walking talking geekazoid eggheads who must a definitive black and white answer to every possibility would have a stroke on a statement so open to interpretation.

For instance, I think child molestors/sexual offenders should never be forgiven, while Bob the Banker who does 5 years for embezzlement doesn't pose quite the same stain on society, IMO.

 

[Annie]

I am merely stating my opinion based on our current laws. But let me pose it to you this way .....

You commit a crime and do the time. While it may be the "only payback," it isn't exactly and extended stay in a Cancun resort. Having spent many months that add up to years at sea being confined to ships with the same people for extended periods, I can somewhat empathize with "living that one, really long day."

At any rate, the punishment for the crime has been handed out. Its' hardly fair to continue to heap on punishment after the fact when the person has served his time.

I could also caveat this with "it depends on the crime," but that is subjective and the walking talking geekazoid eggheads who must a definitive black and white answer to every possibility would have a stroke on a statement so open to interpretation.

For instance, I think child molestors/sexual offenders should never be forgiven, while Bob the Banker who does 5 years for embezzlement doesn't pose quite the same stain on society, IMO.

Agreed that the system is not perfect, which is why the process of reapplying for 'pardon' and restoration of privileges, by the governor seems to me the best way to go, which is already in place. That way the felon must prove himself/herself worthy of these. It also does allow the 'type' of crime to be addressed.

 

[Gunny]

Agreed that the system is not perfect, which is why the process of reapplying for 'pardon' and restoration of privileges, by the governor seems to me the best way to go, which is already in place. That way the felon must prove himself/herself worthy of these. It also does allow the 'type' of crime to be addressed.

Is that how the law is where you live? It sounds pretty fair. I don't know the current law regarding this issue here, but used to be, here (TX) and in FL, convicted felons lost their right to vote, period.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with reapplying for reinstatement of privileges. It seems more just than the usual black or white laws.