Should all jobs be required to pay at least a living wage?

[akelch]

There should be no minimum wage. You either work for the pay offered or you don't.

 

[asterism]

Should all jobs be required to pay at least a living wage?

Assume a living wage for the area, not a national one-size-fits-all standard.

Why or why not?

Define "living wage".

A wage that allows a person to be self-sufficient and have all basic needs met for an extended period of time. For this thread assume:

Transportation
Food
Clothing
Shelter
Healthcare

Without relying on anyone else.

 

[akelch]

Should all jobs be required to pay at least a living wage?

Assume a living wage for the area, not a national one-size-fits-all standard.

Why or why not?

Define "living wage".

A wage that allows a person to be self-sufficient and have all basic needs met for an extended period of time. For this thread assume:

Transportation
Food
Clothing
Shelter
Healthcare

Without relying on anyone else.

The job and how someone performs it constitutes the amount they are paid.

Our minimum wage laws are the most discriminatory laws on the books. They should be abolished.

 

[gallantwarrior]

and this living wage thing....


so ....say paper boy or Starbucks barrestia... now gets that huge raise to a living wage... to say... what $20 dollars an hour...

where does that put the people who do more for a living then them.... do they all get a 10-12 dollar an hour raise to compensate for doing MORE for their living then said paperboy and barrestia?

Exactly.....How about paying a dishwasher the same as a line cook?

It's friggin ridiculous, and would lead this country straight to economic catastrophe.

all i know is i would be pissed as fucking hell if the dishwasher was makeing as much as i would be making.... for actually doing a skilled job as a line cook.

I also know as a owner i would be compelled to give equivalent raises to make the pay according to skill level....

and then laying off a load of people becasue i could not afford to pay them anymore.


why do these living wage people never think it though.

Because actual thought is beyond them. They are operating on their feelings.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Should all jobs be required to pay at least a living wage?

Assume a living wage for the area, not a national one-size-fits-all standard.

Why or why not?

Define "living wage".

A wage that allows a person to be self-sufficient and have all basic needs met for an extended period of time. For this thread assume:

Transportation
Food
Clothing
Shelter
Healthcare

Without relying on anyone else.

OK, let's go with that:
Food and shelter. Period. Anything else is not a basic 'need'. I mean, why don't you include entertainment, technology (periodically updated to remain current), companionship, travel/vacation?

I propose a more novel concept, one that became outmoded when government got involved, how about you live within your means? If you can't afford to rent (or buy) a McMansion, you rent a modest apartment. If you can't afford a spanky new car, you don't have one, you walk or use public transportation. I you can't afford the latest cell phone or computer, you don't have them. If you can't afford to shop at Old Navy, you go to Salvation Army. No one is entitled to have what someone else has if they have not earned it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Most Progressives are for a living wage, the history of the living wage goes back to the eugenics era.

The living or minimum wage was wanted by Progressives to keep the unemployable out of the work force. It was actually driven by their ability to find themselves superior to others.

 

[Amelia]

Most Progressives are for a living wage, the history of the living wage goes back to the eugenics era.

The living or minimum wage was wanted by Progressives to keep the unemployable out of the work force. It was actually driven by their ability to find themselves superior to others.

Not the "unemployable" but the all-too-employable whom some white people didn't want to have to compete against:


John F. Kennedy in 1957, advocating for an extension of the minimum wage:

Of course, having on the market a rather large source of cheap labor depresses wages outside of that group, too – the wages of the white worker who has to compete. And when an employer can substitute a colored worker at a lower wage – and there are, as you pointed out, these hundreds of thousands looking for decent work – it affects the whole wage structure of an area, doesn’t it?

 

[daveman]

Pure capitalism? With tax breaks to corporations and bailing out banks? Have you been paying attention?

Dear, you have created a strawman! No one used the term "pure capitalism" except you. Sorry

So you agree that pure capitalism is not a good idea?

Dunno. We've never tried it.

 

[daveman]

and this living wage thing....


so ....say paper boy or Starbucks barrestia... now gets that huge raise to a living wage... to say... what $20 dollars an hour...

where does that put the people who do more for a living then them.... do they all get a 10-12 dollar an hour raise to compensate for doing MORE for their living then said paperboy and barrestia?

Exactly.....How about paying a dishwasher the same as a line cook?

It's friggin ridiculous, and would lead this country straight to economic catastrophe.

all i know is i would be pissed as fucking hell if the dishwasher was makeing as much as i would be making.... for actually doing a skilled job as a line cook.

I also know as a owner i would be compelled to give equivalent raises to make the pay according to skill level....

and then laying off a load of people becasue i could not afford to pay them anymore.


why do these living wage people never think it though.

They don't encourage thinking. All they have is emotion.

 

[The Rabbi]

Dear, you have created a strawman! No one used the term "pure capitalism" except you. Sorry

So you agree that pure capitalism is not a good idea?

Dunno. We've never tried it.

No one has ever tried pure communism either. But I dont think it's a good idea. I do think pure capitalism would work a hell of a lot better though.

 

[ReallyMeow]

If you all think earning minimum wage is so great, go ahead and make that personal sacrifice and live within your means, know who else works for basic food and shelter? slaves. go ahead and be a slave if you think its so great. but tell me before you take that pepsi challenge, if everyone is only earning bare sustenance, WHO THE FUCK BUYS ANYTHING? nearly a third of working Americans make 18k or under a year, and you wonder why the economy is down. Good wages are the backbone of a good economy. No matter how low you make wages, not hiring someone is ALWAYS cheaper than paying someone a wage, if the business can do its job with 12 employees, the business owner isnt going to cycle out 6 and use the savings to hire 6 more- he's going to keep that as profits.

 

[Avorysuds]

Living wage.

Just wondering, how much should that be... and lets say you got your way, in 1 year, that's 365 days later do you see that "living wage" being the same as it was a year ago when you got your way or would the living wage be the new poverty?

 

[Amelia]

If you all think earning minimum wage is so great, go ahead and make that personal sacrifice and live within your means, know who else works for basic food and shelter? slaves. go ahead and be a slave if you think its so great. but tell me before you take that pepsi challenge, if everyone is only earning bare sustenance, WHO THE FUCK BUYS ANYTHING? nearly a third of working Americans make 18k or under a year, and you wonder why the economy is down. Good wages are the backbone of a good economy. No matter how low you make wages, not hiring someone is ALWAYS cheaper than paying someone a wage, if the business can do its job with 12 employees, the business owner isnt going to cycle out 6 and use the savings to hire 6 more- he's going to keep that as profits.

What a fabulous strawman. I think that most of the people on this thread have made the effort to improve their skill sets so that they can have a job which pays greater than minimum wage.

Have you not? If so, then feel free to keep complaining, but at least be honest about why you feel like a slave (which is a terrible and inaccurate comparison to make in any case since you are at least free and well enough off to be posting on the internet, but you chose it, so I'll speak in the terms you chose).

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Good wages are the backbone of a good economy.

too stupid but perfectly liberal. If that were true we'd just pass a law that $200/hour was minimum and $500 was average wage. I doubt one economist would support that.

 

[Oldstyle]

If you all think earning minimum wage is so great, go ahead and make that personal sacrifice and live within your means, know who else works for basic food and shelter? slaves. go ahead and be a slave if you think its so great. but tell me before you take that pepsi challenge, if everyone is only earning bare sustenance, WHO THE FUCK BUYS ANYTHING? nearly a third of working Americans make 18k or under a year, and you wonder why the economy is down. Good wages are the backbone of a good economy. No matter how low you make wages, not hiring someone is ALWAYS cheaper than paying someone a wage, if the business can do its job with 12 employees, the business owner isnt going to cycle out 6 and use the savings to hire 6 more- he's going to keep that as profits.

Being a "slave" is not an entry level job with opportunity for advancement. Most minimum wage jobs ARE so making that correlation between the two is rather far fetched. The truth is that most people start at a low wage and gradually (by increasing their value to employers by adding job skills and experience) move on to higher paying jobs. That's a natural process...something that doesn't need regulation by the government. Why? Because if I have a skilled employee who is an asset I either need to pay that person commensurate with their skills...or I will lose them to a competitor.

When you force employers to pay more than a job is worth (because what many people don't seem to realize is that the cost of training inexperienced workers to do a job is substantial!) what you do is make it less likely that an inexperienced worker gets hired in the first place. One look at the unemployment rate among teenagers tells you that is something that is happening now. If you raise the minimum wage you'll simply make that worse.

 

[gallantwarrior]

If you all think earning minimum wage is so great, go ahead and make that personal sacrifice and live within your means, know who else works for basic food and shelter? slaves. go ahead and be a slave if you think its so great. but tell me before you take that pepsi challenge, if everyone is only earning bare sustenance, WHO THE FUCK BUYS ANYTHING? nearly a third of working Americans make 18k or under a year, and you wonder why the economy is down. Good wages are the backbone of a good economy. No matter how low you make wages, not hiring someone is ALWAYS cheaper than paying someone a wage, if the business can do its job with 12 employees, the business owner isnt going to cycle out 6 and use the savings to hire 6 more- he's going to keep that as profits.

There is nothing, NOTHING, that forces anyone to remain working at a minimum wage job. Well, other than their lack of initiative and drive to improve themselves. You want more than bare subsistence, get off your ass and earn that opportunity. I am so sick of hearing about how those of us who make our own opportunities, who get out and improve our lot, are somehow responsible for paying the way of those who don't.

 

[daveman]

So you agree that pure capitalism is not a good idea?

Dunno. We've never tried it.

No one has ever tried pure communism either. But I dont think it's a good idea. I do think pure capitalism would work a hell of a lot better though.

Indeed. Capitalism works because it takes human nature into account.

Communism fails because it doesn't.

 

[Wicked Jester]

If you all think earning minimum wage is so great, go ahead and make that personal sacrifice and live within your means, know who else works for basic food and shelter? slaves. go ahead and be a slave if you think its so great. but tell me before you take that pepsi challenge, if everyone is only earning bare sustenance, WHO THE FUCK BUYS ANYTHING? nearly a third of working Americans make 18k or under a year, and you wonder why the economy is down. Good wages are the backbone of a good economy. No matter how low you make wages, not hiring someone is ALWAYS cheaper than paying someone a wage, if the business can do its job with 12 employees, the business owner isnt going to cycle out 6 and use the savings to hire 6 more- he's going to keep that as profits.

"if EVERYONE is only earning bare sustenance"...?

Where the fuck is that happening?

Ya' see, that's why trying to have a debate with just about anyone who advocates the living wage BS, is a total waste of time, because they never deal in facts, and only offer up bogus strawman talking points....And it also becomes quite clear that they have no clue on how a business runs, regardless of size, and are completely clueless as to the damage such a mandate would cause.

 

[asterism]

Define "living wage".

A wage that allows a person to be self-sufficient and have all basic needs met for an extended period of time. For this thread assume:

Transportation
Food
Clothing
Shelter
Healthcare

Without relying on anyone else.

OK, let's go with that:
Food and shelter. Period. Anything else is not a basic 'need'. I mean, why don't you include entertainment, technology (periodically updated to remain current), companionship, travel/vacation?

I propose a more novel concept, one that became outmoded when government got involved, how about you live within your means? If you can't afford to rent (or buy) a McMansion, you rent a modest apartment. If you can't afford a spanky new car, you don't have one, you walk or use public transportation. I you can't afford the latest cell phone or computer, you don't have them. If you can't afford to shop at Old Navy, you go to Salvation Army. No one is entitled to have what someone else has if they have not earned it.

I consider healthcare a basic need. Entertainment, technology, companionship, and vacations are not basic needs. Clothing (beyond rags) and transportation are basic needs because they are necessary for employment.

Your proposal is outside the scope of this thread, where I'm looking for opinions. I have not advocated a position here (yet).

 

[BillSPrestonEsq]

I would be in favor of a tax incentive that could potentially cut corporate tax to zero while boosting wages medium to lower income positions. This would lower costs for businesses to about half of what they pay now in taxes ideally.

I am skeptical of government interference and you would have to work out the details carefully but it could be a solution to the huge income difference between executives and minimum wage employees. It should be possible for everyone to make a "livable wage" otherwise what's the point of working? Those that say to minumum wage earners that you should just better yourself don't seem to realize not all people are created equal. More than that some people are better adapted to certain kind of jobs, and it's arguable that every job is equally important to the success of a company.

Another possible solution is to heavily downsize the government along with abolishing corporate tax and completely re-engineering our banking system/monetary policy. If done correctly it should be the natural side effect of a healthy economy to have more equality in employee incomes and higher wages for everyone.