Sheriff's Sgt. Ron Helus was killed by friendly fire in Borderline shooting, officials reveal

Brain357 · Dec 8, 2018

And some people think there won't be lots of friendly fire if we armed all the drunks in a bar....

The California sheriff’s sergeant who died in the Borderline Bar & Grill shooting massacre last month was struck and killed by friendly fire, officials revealed Friday.

Ventura County Sheriff’s Sgt. Ron Helus was hit five times by gunman Ian David Long, but the “most lethal” shot to his heart was fired by the California Highway Patrol officer who entered the dark, smoke-filled venue with him to stop the bloodshed, officials said.

Sheriff's Sgt. Ron Helus was killed by friendly fire in Borderline shooting, officials reveal - NY Daily News

Weatherman2020 · Dec 8, 2018

Only government should be allowed to have guns!

harmonica · Dec 8, 2018

if you research police marksmanship, it is really bad--and they train
there was just a story of police injuring innocents during a shootout

harmonica · Dec 8, 2018

here it is
2 bystanders hit by crossfire in NYPD gun battle

OnePercenter · Dec 8, 2018

You seem to have glossed over the other 12 that were killed by Long. Shame on you.

Long used a Glock with an (extended ammunition magazine) which should be illegal.

Jarlaxle · Dec 9, 2018

Yes, because HEAVEN FORBID he break the law while on his killing spree!

You are so full of shit it is bubbling out your ears.

Zorro! · Oct 3, 2019

CULTURE OF HATE: Charity Event for Slain Police Officer Canceled Because Trump Supporters Were to Be in Attendance.

2aguy · Oct 3, 2019

And you are wrong.......we have actual real world experience......

Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result - WND

When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

Read more at Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result - WND

More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

2aguy · Oct 3, 2019

And more actual, real world examples and research into armed citizens during mass public shootings...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.

In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

2aguy · Oct 3, 2019

I have read that part of the problem is that regulation, NYPD pistols are required to have a 12 pound trigger pull....which makes it incredibly hard to be accurate under pressure.

2aguy · Oct 3, 2019

Why should the magazine be illegal? How about we simply prosecute those who use them to commit crimes......you moron.

2aguy · Oct 3, 2019

In Russia, the shooter used a 5 shot, tube fed magazine...you moron......he killed 20 and injured 40.....magazine size is irrelevant you moron....... Navy Yard shooter, pump action shotgun...no magazine......12 dead...

Rustic · Oct 3, 2019

cnm · Oct 3, 2019

Time to ignore the crazed loon, I think.

cnm · Oct 3, 2019

Ahh. That's a bit easier on the scrolling finger.

Preacher · Oct 3, 2019

How do they know WHICH wound killed him? 5 damn gunshot wounds could just as easily killed him as the one to the heart from a fellow cop.

Preacher · Oct 3, 2019

You CLEARLY did not read the article. He was not there DRINKING he attacked the people at the bar because it was an easy target,drunk folks and folks listening to music etc. He also had a history of violent behavior dating back to high school AND had fired a shot in the home he shared with his mother but a "legal professional" claimed he shouldn't be declared unfit and put in a hospital which COULD HAVE prevented this shit.So again a failure on your part to blame the bar or the gun.

Zorro! · Oct 3, 2019

They don't actually care about gun violence, they care about us having no recourse to their complete control over every aspect of our lives.

Trump has offerred to work with them on sensible gun legislation like Red Flag laws, and they want to impeach him instead of making any progress on the issue.

80% of the murders committed by fire arms are committed by gangs, so, Republicans offered to put known gang members on red flag lists. Dems wouldn't even consider it.

The nice thing about being a Constitutional Republican is that you can actually tell the truth about your political positions rather than constantly lying about what your real goals are.

whitehall · Oct 3, 2019

Oh, we aren't talking about the actual "borderline". It's a bar but it's still Trump's fault.

whitehall · Oct 3, 2019

It's called "double action. The first shot takes 12 pounds of pressure because they don't want accidental shots. The second round, however, takes anywhere between 2 and three pounds pressure.

Sheriff's Sgt. Ron Helus was killed by friendly fire in Borderline shooting, officials reveal

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Those Patriotic Muslims!

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