Sexual Orientation: What are it's causes?

[Katzndogz]

Even islam recognizes that homosexuality itself is not a choice.

Muslims Do Not believe in any way, shape, or form; that Allah creates homosexuals. Period.

I just explained it to you!

Read the link and expand your knowledge.

If Allah did not create homosexuals there would not be mention of homosexuals in the Qu'ran! So there were indeed homosexuals at the time of its writing.

Below are some verses in the Quran that speak against homosexuality. Those people who make a god (ilah) of there own lusts are clearly in the wrong. Prophet Lut spoke against this evil practice of his people. Their only reply was: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth." They soon found out who was telling the truth when Allah destroyed them all. Let it be known right now that there is NO SUCH THING AS A GAY MUSLIM!!! A Muslim is one who submits himself to the will of Allah. Those who practice this evil have submitted themselves to their own desires and have turned their backs on the clear teachings of Islam. These people will use any kind of rationalization to justify their sinful practices. Be not deceived by the smooth tactics of Shaitan. He will try everything to guide us from the wrong way.

If you have these homosexual desires in you seek refuge in Allah and Allah will help you. Allah has revealed the truth. All praise is for Allah!!!

Verses From Qur'an:

026.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

027.055 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

029.028-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

Would Allah create the grossly ignorant? Obviously so, like God, with the expectation that the observing individual would reject such leanings and struggle against their desires.

What you are saying is that homosexuality does not exist, it is a decision made individually. For some, yes it is. For others, not even close.

This is from the article and it is a view that I personally share.

While we abhor acts of discrimination against individuals or groups, we also place a high value on discretion. The individual's right of choice is a fundamental value and necessary condition for each individual to be accountable to God for his/her own actions. God's guidance secures the balance between the individual's and societal rights. No one has a right to spy into the private lives and affairs of individuals. Even when these private affairs should incidentally be known, the admonition is to keep them private and protect those involved.

However, when one openly declares one's sexual orientation, a private matter, and then demands special consideration because of it, we find this an affront to the society's well being. There are already safeguards and protections under the law against discrimination that includes heterosexuals and homosexuals. To demand further special rights and consideration based on how or who we have sex with, and claim it to be a civil rights issue, is ludicrous. To compare with and demand special protection as those who have been persecuted for their national origin, race, color, or creed and religious beliefs is baseless and has no historical or social justification or parallels. We will then have to accede similar special demands for protection and single out groups varying from those who want to have heterosexual relations to those who are left handed, when they are all currently protected under existing laws. We are committed to uphold the family unit and its values, and protection of it as a durable, proven, most important and socially viable nucleus of any society. There is a continual struggle and effort to maintain the balance between an individual's right and society's well being. We place a higher value on the society's well being than an individual's right to actively promote counter values that will ultimately damage the society at large. We therefore have a right to resist and ensure the protection of our values against such an onslaught. This resistance should never be an aggression against any individual or groups, but a firm and principled stand against the counter values being promoted, while promoting our values in a kinder and gentler fashion with conviction. We have, indeed, a duty to promote divine wisdom and values that will advance humanity and that have withstood the test of time.

 

[Sunni Man]

026.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

027.055 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

029.028-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

There is not one single thing in these verses that says or indicates that Allah created homosexuals.

Who ever wrote the article is just expressing a personal opinion which is totally unIslamic and wrong.

 

[Cenotaph]

That, believe it or not, doesn't prove anything other than you do not remember making a choice. Tell me something, when did you choose your political orientation? Your favorite flavor of ice cream? Do you remember making those choices? Does that prove they are not choices?

1. It's silly to compare political orientation with food preference. Both are two completely different things.
2. Actually, food preferences are not a choice, but are determined by multiple factors. Sources: this and this

.

You should pick better examples. Perhaps the truth is a lot more complicated that you like to pretend.

I'm rather certain someone (Vidi) has supplied a valid source that supports that homosexual behavior occurs in other species. Of course, if a source is not in agreement with your position in the argument, then you will find some way to discredit it.

If you don't like bullshit I suggest you stop posting on the Internet.

Someone doesn't agree with you... Therefore you feel the need to insult that someone. Kind of a chilidish way of reacting... don't you think?

 

[Vidi]

026.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

027.055 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

029.028-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

There is not one single thing in these verses that says or indicates that Allah created homosexuals.

Who ever wrote the article is just expressing a personal opinion which is totally unIslamic and wrong.

ahhh you want to have THAT debate?

 

[Sunni Man]

ahhh you want to have THAT debate?

Nothing to debate.

God doesn't create homos. Period.

 

[Vidi]

The hormonal release to change the female to male in utero ( we all start out female...hence men have nipples ) doesnt fire at exactly the "right" time. This leads to a 70% ( or more ) sexual preference predisposition. Those who say they have NEVER been attracted to a certain sex are ( in my opinion ) giving anedoctal evidence biased through the filter of their own psyche. Its not that they are lying. Its more that its not scientific in that its not provable. They cant possibly know every thoguht and desire theyve EVER had, even as a very young child. Such things simply arent accessible to us.

Like you said, you wanted science. Andectotal evidence is not science.

Science is telling us that none of us are 100% anything.

It also has something to do with how the brain is structured during development in utero. Recent advances in brain mapping have been done by the Swiss............

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."

Vilain, who studies the genetic factors behind sexuality and sexual orientation, notes that it may turn out that the brains of gay men possess only some 'feminized' structures, while retaining some masculine ones, and this is reflected in how they act on their sexuality. "We know from studies that men, regardless of their sexual orientation, retain masculine characteristics when it comes to their sexual behavior," he says. Both gay and straight men, for example, tend to prefer younger partners, in contrast to women, who gravitate toward older partners. Most men are also more likely than women to engage in casual sex, and to be aroused by visual stimuli. "So I expect that some regions of the brain will remain masculine even in gay men," says Vilain. For something as complex as sexual orientation, it's no surprise that everything from genes to gender to environment may play a role in ultimately determining your perfect partner.


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

And yeah..............it's backed by science.

Actually, it isn't. There exist zero evidence that brain development affects behavior.There is, however, evidence that behavior can affect the way certain brain diseases progress, which is evidence that behavior can affect brain development.

actually....


Prenatal hormone exposure effects brain development | News | The Engineer

Prenatal exposure to endocrine disrupting chemicals: effects on behavioral development. | Mendeley

there is science that suggests otherwise.

hell even such factors as a fathers death during the pregnancy has been shown to effect the childs dvelopment:

They found that subjects whose fathers had died before their child's birth had an increased risk of psychiatric disorders, including psychosis, compared with subjects whose fathers died during the first year of their child's life. The risk was greatest if the father's death occurred during the third, fifth, ninth, or tenth four-week period of gestation. Mednick et al. (1988) subsequently reported that a mother's exposure to influenza during gestation was associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia in her child. Only the middle trimester of gestation was associated with an increased risk of the disorder, leading Mednick et al. to suggest that "it is less the type than the timing of the disturbance during fetal neural development that is critical in determining risk for schizophrenia."
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v27/n2/full/1395839a.html

perhaps throwing a search term in google before you make such sweeping and absolute statements is a better course of action.

 

[Big Black Dog]

When I was born, the doctor told my mother that I was a boy. When I got older my mother told me I was a boy. Guess it must be true and I'd say I'm pretty well orientated to the fact that I'm a boy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What definitive evidence do you have that it is not a choice? While anecdotal evidence exists where people claim they were always attracted to whatever they are attracted to that is far from conclusive, and there are people that claim to have made a choice. The only way sexual orientation can be proven to be not a choice is if you have conclusive evidence that people do not have free will, something I am willing to bet you do not have conclusive evidence on either side.

You don't really need scientific evidence to prove it's not a choice. If it is a choice, then I ask those who identify themselves as heterosexuals to become aroused at those of the same sex.... (It's really as simple as that). However, if you really feel that you meed this evidence, then I suggest you read this: Is it a Choice? The Science of Sexual Orientation

Also, I don't believe free will exists. It's merely an illusion. (Off-topic, I know).

You don't need science, I do.

Free will is not an illusion after all - life - 23 September 2009 - New Scientist

 

[Vidi]

What definitive evidence do you have that it is not a choice? While anecdotal evidence exists where people claim they were always attracted to whatever they are attracted to that is far from conclusive, and there are people that claim to have made a choice. The only way sexual orientation can be proven to be not a choice is if you have conclusive evidence that people do not have free will, something I am willing to bet you do not have conclusive evidence on either side.

You don't really need scientific evidence to prove it's not a choice. If it is a choice, then I ask those who identify themselves as heterosexuals to become aroused at those of the same sex.... (It's really as simple as that). However, if you really feel that you meed this evidence, then I suggest you read this: Is it a Choice? The Science of Sexual Orientation

Also, I don't believe free will exists. It's merely an illusion. (Off-topic, I know).

You don't need science, I do.

Free will is not an illusion after all - life - 23 September 2009 - New Scientist

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1. It's silly to compare political orientation with food preference. Both are two completely different things.
2. Actually, food preferences are not a choice, but are determined by multiple factors. Sources: this and this

1. Is it silly because doing so exposes your assertion that sexual preference is not a choice for the absurdity it actually is, or is it absurd because you have actual evidence that it is different?
2. Nothing in either of those sources says anything about food preference not being a choice.

I'm rather certain someone (Vidi) has supplied a valid source that supports that homosexual behavior occurs in other species. Of course, if a source is not in agreement with your position in the argument, then you will find some way to discredit it.

I could do that, or I could just point out how absurd it is to point out that two penguins are gay when one of them switched to being straight when the right female came along. That makes you the one that is discrediting a source you disagree with, all I am pointing out is that you don't have any fracking idea what you are talking about. The issue is not as simple as you think.

Someone doesn't agree with you... Therefore you feel the need to insult that someone. Kind of a chilidish way of reacting... don't you think?

If you think it is childish why are you doing it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It also has something to do with how the brain is structured during development in utero. Recent advances in brain mapping have been done by the Swiss............

And yeah..............it's backed by science.

Actually, it isn't. There exist zero evidence that brain development affects behavior.There is, however, evidence that behavior can affect the way certain brain diseases progress, which is evidence that behavior can affect brain development.

actually....


Prenatal hormone exposure effects brain development | News | The Engineer

Prenatal exposure to endocrine disrupting chemicals: effects on behavioral development. | Mendeley

there is science that suggests otherwise.

hell even such factors as a fathers death during the pregnancy has been shown to effect the childs dvelopment:

They found that subjects whose fathers had died before their child's birth had an increased risk of psychiatric disorders, including psychosis, compared with subjects whose fathers died during the first year of their child's life. The risk was greatest if the father's death occurred during the third, fifth, ninth, or tenth four-week period of gestation. Mednick et al. (1988) subsequently reported that a mother's exposure to influenza during gestation was associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia in her child. Only the middle trimester of gestation was associated with an increased risk of the disorder, leading Mednick et al. to suggest that "it is less the type than the timing of the disturbance during fetal neural development that is critical in determining risk for schizophrenia."
Glucocorticoid Hormones and Early Brain Development in Schizophrenia

perhaps throwing a search term in google before you make such sweeping and absolute statements is a better course of action.

A psychiatrist found that a father's prenatal death caused psychiatric disorders? Really?



Did either of those studies actually study the brain as it developed to see if the changes came before the behavior or after it? That is my point, the studies are inconclusive because the technolgy did not exist until recently to actually study the brain and its relationship to behavior. All we could do is look at the brain during an autopsy and see what it looked like then. That only counts as evidence if you want it to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You don't really need scientific evidence to prove it's not a choice. If it is a choice, then I ask those who identify themselves as heterosexuals to become aroused at those of the same sex.... (It's really as simple as that). However, if you really feel that you meed this evidence, then I suggest you read this: Is it a Choice? The Science of Sexual Orientation

Also, I don't believe free will exists. It's merely an illusion. (Off-topic, I know).

You don't need science, I do.

Free will is not an illusion after all - life - 23 September 2009 - New Scientist

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

My position is that there exists no conclusive evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice, why do I need more evidence?

 

[Vidi]

You don't need science, I do.

Free will is not an illusion after all - life - 23 September 2009 - New Scientist

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

My position is that there exists no conclusive evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice, why do I need more evidence?

ahhhh the change up accompanied by the back off. Didnt you post:

There exist zero evidence that brain development affects behavior.

So you just throw stuff out there and see what sticks huh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

My position is that there exists no conclusive evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice, why do I need more evidence?

ahhhh the change up accompanied by the back off. Didnt you post:

There exist zero evidence that brain development affects behavior.

So you just throw stuff out there and see what sticks huh?

I did not change my position, here is my first post in this thread where I stated my position.

What definitive evidence do you have that it is not a choice? While anecdotal evidence exists where people claim they were always attracted to whatever they are attracted to that is far from conclusive, and there are people that claim to have made a choice. The only way sexual orientation can be proven to be not a choice is if you have conclusive evidence that people do not have free will, something I am willing to bet you do not have conclusive evidence on either side.

Then you try to call me for repeating it?

Yes, I did say there is no evidence that brain development affects behavior. I will take the time here to point out that that statement does not even begin to contradict my position that there is no evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice.

I have a suggestion, go back to arguing with Sunni, you have a better chance of not looking stupid.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You don't need science, I do.

Free will is not an illusion after all - life - 23 September 2009 - New Scientist

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

My position is that there exists no conclusive evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice, why do I need more evidence?

The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

 

[Sunni Man]

The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

Wow, man that's deep.

Sounds like a double bong hit answer.

 

[Cenotaph]

Youre making a fairly large leap there. From moving your finger to sexual preference.

Youre going to need more than that to back up your statement.

My position is that there exists no conclusive evidence that sexual orientation is not a choice, why do I need more evidence?

The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

They seem to think otherwise, and that by doing so they (think they) are correct.

 

[Sunni Man]

The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

They seem to think otherwise, and that by doing so they (think they) are correct.

LOL, dumb and dumber meet and agree.

 

[Cenotaph]

The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

They seem to think otherwise, and that by doing so they (think they) are correct.

LOL, dumb and dumber meet and agree.

Says the person who was ignorant of dominant and recessive genes.

 

[Sunni Man]

They seem to think otherwise, and that by doing so they (think they) are correct.

LOL, dumb and dumber meet and agree.

Says the person who was ignorant of dominant and recessive genes.

Yea, right!!