Sexual Orientation: What are it's causes?

[Cenotaph]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

 

[Ariux]

If you want evidence of healthy, wild animals rejecting heterosexuality in favor of homosexuality, then look up the story on the penguins, Roy and Silo. Oh, and organisms of different species do not crossdress because animals do not usually wear clothes.

Roy and Silo were in captivity, hardly natural conditions. Roy and Silo never performed sex acts! Boy and girl penguins look the same! Silo (a male) eventually hooked up with a female name Scrappy!

Is it representative of homosexual human male partners to never perform sex acts? Are homosexual men too stupid to tell the difference between a male and a female?

Roy and Silo do not reflect human homosexuals. But, you offer this example just as bullshit.

 

[Vidi]

Heres the thing:

No one is 100% straight opr gay ( no matter what they say ) The data concerning prenatal hormones is interesting in that it shows us that we can be predisposed from birth to a certain orientation.

Lets say three people are born this way

Person A is predisposed 70% homosexual 30% straight
Person B is predisposed 50/50
Person C is predisposed 30% homosexual 70% straight.

Predisposition does not decide on the persons eventual sexual orientation. That comes from two other factors: Enviornment and finally choice.

Now some people will object to the choice factor but let me explain. One has to accept what they are in order to live their lives. In that sense, choice is a factor.

I think the reason theres such a strong debate on the subject is that there isnt a single cause but a combination of factors that lead to sexual orientation, both straight and homosexual.

I have actually heard of this theory before, and another one similar to it in that sexuality "fluxuates" as a life progresses.

I can safely say that there have only been a couple of instances in my life to where I was (a little) aroused at the female form. So, speaking on a personal level, I can see how this theory could be believable/valid, but... what do you have to say about those who claim to have never been attracted to women before? That they're lying or...

The hormonal release to change the female to male in utero ( we all start out female...hence men have nipples ) doesnt fire at exactly the "right" time. This leads to a 70% ( or more ) sexual preference predisposition. Those who say they have NEVER been attracted to a certain sex are ( in my opinion ) giving anedoctal evidence biased through the filter of their own psyche. Its not that they are lying. Its more that its not scientific in that its not provable. They cant possibly know every thoguht and desire theyve EVER had, even as a very young child. Such things simply arent accessible to us.

Like you said, you wanted science. Andectotal evidence is not science.

Science is telling us that none of us are 100% anything.

 

[Vidi]

If you want evidence of healthy, wild animals rejecting heterosexuality in favor of homosexuality, then look up the story on the penguins, Roy and Silo. Oh, and organisms of different species do not crossdress because animals do not usually wear clothes.

Roy and Silo were in captivity, hardly natural conditions. Roy and Silo never performed sex acts! Boy and girl penguins look the same! Silo (a male) eventually hooked up with a female name Scrappy!

Is it representative of homosexual human male partners to never perform sex acts? Are homosexual men too stupid to tell the difference between a male and a female?

Roy and Silo do not reflect human homosexuals. But, you offer this example just as bullshit.

Please try not to comment on things that require logic, reason or any kind of thinking at all. Its not your strong suit.

 

[Sunni Man]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

If a homo gene was actually found.

The people who carried the gene could be identified and chemically or physically neutered

Or locked up and isolated for the safety of normal people..

 

[Peach]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

If a homo gene was actually found.

The people who carried the gene could be identified and chemically or physically neutered

Or locked up and isolated for the safety of normal people..

If we knew what caused ignorance, you would be a lifer, that is certain.

 

[Amelia]

But seriously ... if I may get a word in between the spitballs ... that older brother effect which I just heard of for the first time this evening is pretty interesting to me. I have one gay family member that I'm aware of. He has four older brothers. Pretty cool. I should ask him if he is righthanded.

 

[Vidi]

Has zero to do with my religion.

What homos do is just plain nasty and perverted.

I wish it wasn't a choice and was genetic.

Because most homos don't breed.

So their abnormal gay gene would go extinct rather quickly.

Let's say that homosexuality is genetic. If it is genetic, then the genes could still be carried within heterosexuals due to recessive genes (homosexuals wouldn't be the only ones).

If a homo gene was actually found.

The people who carried the gene could be identified and chemically or physically neutered

Or locked up and isolated for the safety of normal people..

Now I have to question your grasp of genetics. You do realize that if its genetic, "gay" is not contagious right?

It could only be passesd to offspring...genetically.

So youre saying that anyone found with this gene...even latent, should be seperated and sterilized. Even you?

as for your assertion that it is unnatural:

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

1,500 animal species practice homosexuality

Science again says no to your stance.

 

[Sunni Man]

The claim that 1,500 animal species practice homosexuality is pure BS

Just because two male or female animals of the same species pair up under stress to raise their young does not equal homosexuality.

And no animal consciously seeks out another of the same sex to have intercourse.

Only humans do that.

 

[Ariux]

Please try not to comment on things that require logic, reason or any kind of thinking at all. Its not your strong suit.

So say you, a shithead. You think a couple of birds, in captivity, who've never engaged in any sex acts, are like a couple of fags.

 

[Vidi]

Please try not to comment on things that require logic, reason or any kind of thinking at all. Its not your strong suit.

So say you, a shithead. You think a couple of birds, in captivity, who've never engaged in any sex acts, are like a couple of fags.

No I think youre an idiot and anything you post is therefore idiotic. Its quite obvious that thinking is difficult for you and what little thinking you do is comprised of 2 + 2 equals starfish.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Heres the thing:

No one is 100% straight opr gay ( no matter what they say ) The data concerning prenatal hormones is interesting in that it shows us that we can be predisposed from birth to a certain orientation.

Lets say three people are born this way

Person A is predisposed 70% homosexual 30% straight
Person B is predisposed 50/50
Person C is predisposed 30% homosexual 70% straight.

Predisposition does not decide on the persons eventual sexual orientation. That comes from two other factors: Enviornment and finally choice.

Now some people will object to the choice factor but let me explain. One has to accept what they are in order to live their lives. In that sense, choice is a factor.

I think the reason theres such a strong debate on the subject is that there isnt a single cause but a combination of factors that lead to sexual orientation, both straight and homosexual.

I have actually heard of this theory before, and another one similar to it in that sexuality "fluxuates" as a life progresses.

I can safely say that there have only been a couple of instances in my life to where I was (a little) aroused at the female form. So, speaking on a personal level, I can see how this theory could be believable/valid, but... what do you have to say about those who claim to have never been attracted to women before? That they're lying or...

The hormonal release to change the female to male in utero ( we all start out female...hence men have nipples ) doesnt fire at exactly the "right" time. This leads to a 70% ( or more ) sexual preference predisposition. Those who say they have NEVER been attracted to a certain sex are ( in my opinion ) giving anedoctal evidence biased through the filter of their own psyche. Its not that they are lying. Its more that its not scientific in that its not provable. They cant possibly know every thoguht and desire theyve EVER had, even as a very young child. Such things simply arent accessible to us.

Like you said, you wanted science. Andectotal evidence is not science.

Science is telling us that none of us are 100% anything.

It also has something to do with how the brain is structured during development in utero. Recent advances in brain mapping have been done by the Swiss............

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."

Vilain, who studies the genetic factors behind sexuality and sexual orientation, notes that it may turn out that the brains of gay men possess only some 'feminized' structures, while retaining some masculine ones, and this is reflected in how they act on their sexuality. "We know from studies that men, regardless of their sexual orientation, retain masculine characteristics when it comes to their sexual behavior," he says. Both gay and straight men, for example, tend to prefer younger partners, in contrast to women, who gravitate toward older partners. Most men are also more likely than women to engage in casual sex, and to be aroused by visual stimuli. "So I expect that some regions of the brain will remain masculine even in gay men," says Vilain. For something as complex as sexual orientation, it's no surprise that everything from genes to gender to environment may play a role in ultimately determining your perfect partner.


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

And yeah..............it's backed by science.

 

[Katzndogz]

Being a homo is a choice; a pathetic choice, but a choice none the less.

Do you have any scientific evidence to support this claim?

Sure.

Homos who get their fudge packed have chosen to get it packed.

It's really that simple.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, homosexual behavior is the choice that I think you mean.

According to Mission Islam:

The common concept for Muslim homosexuals is to commit suicide since they can't be punished for being homosexuals in a non-Islamic state, but two wrongs don't make one right. While homosexuality is wrong, it doesn't justify suicide under any conditions or circumstances. Please know that if you ever commit suicide, you would have seriously misunderstood Islam and its spirit. If you were ever involved in sexual homosexual acts in the past, you should truly and sincerely repent to Allah, The Merciful, The Gracious, and pledge to Him never to get involved in any homosexual acts anymore. Please note that there is a difference to actually being involved in a homosexual act -which is a sin - from having sexual feelings that you try to control, that you don't express in public, which is not sinful if you try to control them. If medical or psychological counseling helps, then get it, but know that Allah is The Curer, and the Qur'an is your best companion. Give charity, pray, make dua', and Allah will not leave you alone. You have got to believe in the infinite amount of Mercy Allah provides to His servants, and you should also realize that He forgives, if He wishes, all types of sins, except the sin of disbelieving in Him.

What is sinful in homosexuality is the actual sexual act between the couple of a similar sex. if you transform your desires into a struggle and a challenge to overcome it and not physically commit it, then insha'Allah, you will get the reward for it.

Even islam recognizes that homosexuality itself is not a choice.

 

[rdean]

Gay man:

Straight man:

Gay man:

Straight man:

 

[BDBoop]

Validation, IMO.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe58_vd_5g4]Brain scan results - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVwjCppq82c]Are we born straight or gay? - Making of Me: John Barrowman - BBC - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is somewhat inspired by Maxcha's thread, which... instead of arguing the morality (silly word) of homosexuality, we're arguing in what causes it.

Is it genetic, hormonal, or psychological... or possibly a combination of two or three?

From the evidence I have seen, it seems to be pointing towards hormones. There have been specific twin studies over the past few years that examine sets of twins with differing sexual orientations. Each set of twins are genetically identical and have experienced (relatively) uniform environmental settings. If this is true, the "nurture" aspect of psychological development is omitted with just "nature" left... Since it's not genetic (in this instance), then maybe it's hormonal?

Here's what I can say with a definite answer:

1. Sexual orientation is not a choice.
2. It's is not unnatural... seeing that it's a phenomina that occurs in many other species (not just humans).

By the way, if you're going to make a post in what your opinion is, then please leave links pointing towards evidence that supports your claim.


[youtube]IoZoRbP-0WM[/youtube] [youtube]WTLAof9oXCI[/youtube] [youtube]RGnZgC47SLA[/youtube]

What definitive evidence do you have that it is not a choice? While anecdotal evidence exists where people claim they were always attracted to whatever they are attracted to that is far from conclusive, and there are people that claim to have made a choice. The only way sexual orientation can be proven to be not a choice is if you have conclusive evidence that people do not have free will, something I am willing to bet you do not have conclusive evidence on either side.

 

[Sunni Man]

Even islam recognizes that homosexuality itself is not a choice.

Muslims Do Not believe in any way, shape, or form; that Allah creates homosexuals. Period.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How do I know it's not a choice? I am gay myself.

That, believe it or not, doesn't prove anything other than you do not remember making a choice. Tell me something, when did you choose your political orientation? Your favorite flavor of ice cream? Do you remember making those choices? Does that prove they are not choices?

How do I know homosexuality occurs within other species of the animal kingdom? It occurs in penguins, dogs, bison, owls, beetles, whales, and numerous other organisms (too many to list). I would post a few links supporting this, but I do not have 15 or more posts, so... I am unable to. However, any quick research will show that I am correct.

If you want evidence of healthy, wild animals rejecting heterosexuality in favor of homosexuality, then look up the story on the penguins, Roy and Silo. Oh, and organisms of different species do not crossdress because animals do not usually wear clothes.

Roy and Silo? The gay penguins that turned out to be straight?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/nyregion/24penguins.html?_r=1

You should pick better examples. Perhaps the truth is a lot more complicated that you like to pretend.

Also, please refrain from antagonizing people in this thread. It exists to get away from the bullshit, not to continue it. (It also doesn't help your argument).

If you don't like bullshit I suggest you stop posting on the Internet.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have actually heard of this theory before, and another one similar to it in that sexuality "fluxuates" as a life progresses.

I can safely say that there have only been a couple of instances in my life to where I was (a little) aroused at the female form. So, speaking on a personal level, I can see how this theory could be believable/valid, but... what do you have to say about those who claim to have never been attracted to women before? That they're lying or...

The hormonal release to change the female to male in utero ( we all start out female...hence men have nipples ) doesnt fire at exactly the "right" time. This leads to a 70% ( or more ) sexual preference predisposition. Those who say they have NEVER been attracted to a certain sex are ( in my opinion ) giving anedoctal evidence biased through the filter of their own psyche. Its not that they are lying. Its more that its not scientific in that its not provable. They cant possibly know every thoguht and desire theyve EVER had, even as a very young child. Such things simply arent accessible to us.

Like you said, you wanted science. Andectotal evidence is not science.

Science is telling us that none of us are 100% anything.

It also has something to do with how the brain is structured during development in utero. Recent advances in brain mapping have been done by the Swiss............

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."

Vilain, who studies the genetic factors behind sexuality and sexual orientation, notes that it may turn out that the brains of gay men possess only some 'feminized' structures, while retaining some masculine ones, and this is reflected in how they act on their sexuality. "We know from studies that men, regardless of their sexual orientation, retain masculine characteristics when it comes to their sexual behavior," he says. Both gay and straight men, for example, tend to prefer younger partners, in contrast to women, who gravitate toward older partners. Most men are also more likely than women to engage in casual sex, and to be aroused by visual stimuli. "So I expect that some regions of the brain will remain masculine even in gay men," says Vilain. For something as complex as sexual orientation, it's no surprise that everything from genes to gender to environment may play a role in ultimately determining your perfect partner.


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

And yeah..............it's backed by science.

Actually, it isn't. There exist zero evidence that brain development affects behavior.There is, however, evidence that behavior can affect the way certain brain diseases progress, which is evidence that behavior can affect brain development.

 

[Cenotaph]

What definitive evidence do you have that it is not a choice? While anecdotal evidence exists where people claim they were always attracted to whatever they are attracted to that is far from conclusive, and there are people that claim to have made a choice. The only way sexual orientation can be proven to be not a choice is if you have conclusive evidence that people do not have free will, something I am willing to bet you do not have conclusive evidence on either side.

You don't really need scientific evidence to prove it's not a choice. If it is a choice, then I ask those who identify themselves as heterosexuals to become aroused at those of the same sex.... (It's really as simple as that). However, if you really feel that you meed this evidence, then I suggest you read this: Is it a Choice? The Science of Sexual Orientation

Also, I don't believe free will exists. It's merely an illusion. (Off-topic, I know).