Sexual Orientation: What are it's causes?

[Quantum Windbag]

People are born; male and female, with the sexual equipment to procreate.

That's a given; basic biology. Men for women and women for men.

It's nature, natural, and normal.

When people go against that; then it's a choice, and is abnormal.

Quite simple when you think about it.

But we're not talking about the equipment but rather the impetus to use it. Where does that come from?

Considering the social condemnation homosexuals are subjected to, why do you suppose anyone would choose that orientation?

If you'd like to read a professional opinion on this subject, go here: PsychiatryOnline | American Journal of Psychiatry | QUANTITATIVE SEX HORMONE STUDIES IN HOMOSEXUALITY, CHILDHOOD, AND VARIOUS NEUROPSYCHIATRIC DISTURBANCES

You really should read the entire thread, there is no proof what causes sexual orientation.

 

[koshergrl]

Thank you. Share that with the homotards who continually carp "THERE'S MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE THAT CONFIRM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS HARDWIRED/GENETIC/BIOLOGICAL/NOT A CHOICE!"

 

[Vidi]

I'm sorry, what part of "sexual orientation, what are its causes" am I not[/I addressing? Of course, you want someone to give some psychobabble excuse why an animal that was equipped by nature for one gender identification chooses to identify as the opposite gender. Sorry, I don't buy the "nature" concept. It's all "nurture" babycakes. It's a choice a person makes, for a variety of reasons. Some are so torn by their choice that they will even commit extreme self-mutilation in order to validate their choice.
Why a human makes such a choice? I've covered that in other posts.

Possibly not.

Sorry but youre making the same "tyrannical" statement that youre accusing others of making. Youre saying its a choice, as an absolute. It MAY not be a choice, it may be, but we DONT KNOW conclusively.

What we DO KNOW is that the amount of testosterone a fetus recieves during pregnancy does effects its physiology ( both finger length and penis size are directly correlated to it ) We also KNOW that all fetuses begin as an undetermined sex and are only assigned later in gestation once the chromosomes are actually taken into account. In other words, the genetic program says build a basic human being which it does and then in later development says OH ok now we have to determine gender. A fetus is also bombarded with various hormones ( testosterone and estrogen just to name a couple ) that change its physical attributes ( not just gender ).

Thats what we KNOW.

Its being theorized and tested that the timing of those hormonal bombardments ( and the amount of each hormone in the bombardments ) may effect personality and sexuality as well. And this data looks like its going to be proven out. Its meeting the right criteria to be considered hard and correct science. If this turns out to be the case, ( which it maynot be. Other promising science turned out to be wrong when other discoveries were made ) then it is more than likely that sexual preference is NOT a choice.

Unfortunately, even the scientific community has been compromised by today's politics.

In other words, any science that even hints that your opinion might be incorrect is tainted by politics?

Nice that way you dont even have to be wrong, do you?

 

[Vidi]

I don't think most people know what makes them gay.

I do know there's no evidence, except in a few rare instances, that it's anything physical or genetic.

Theres no CONCLUSIVE evidence. The operative word is CONCLUSIVE.

Do you understand the difference between not conclusive and absolutely none at all?

There IS evidence, but not conclusive evidence. Stated REPEATEDLY in this thread, which youve obviously chosen to ignore because it conflicts with your hardwired opinion.

 

[Vidi]

People are born; male and female, with the sexual equipment to procreate.

That's a given; basic biology. Men for women and women for men.

It's nature, natural, and normal.

When people go against that; then it's a choice, and is abnormal.

Quite simple when you think about it.

But we're not talking about the equipment but rather the impetus to use it. Where does that come from?

Considering the social condemnation homosexuals are subjected to, why do you suppose anyone would choose that orientation?

If you'd like to read a professional opinion on this subject, go here: PsychiatryOnline | American Journal of Psychiatry | QUANTITATIVE SEX HORMONE STUDIES IN HOMOSEXUALITY, CHILDHOOD, AND VARIOUS NEUROPSYCHIATRIC DISTURBANCES

I would suggest that in former times, people with such desires were forced to stay closeted due to general societal rejection of such activities. In recent years, we have seen increasing glorification of such choices in the media, in the entertainment industry, in advertising. A lot of people who would have remained "hidden" have now grasped the widespread media representation of their choice as being somehow glamorous and a desirable demonstration of how "cool" they are. Straights are so uncool because they don't get it.

I respectfully disagree. I dont see it as "glorification" but as acceptance or tolerance. A rejection of the stigma attached to it.

 

[koshergrl]

But we're not talking about the equipment but rather the impetus to use it. Where does that come from?

Considering the social condemnation homosexuals are subjected to, why do you suppose anyone would choose that orientation?

If you'd like to read a professional opinion on this subject, go here: PsychiatryOnline | American Journal of Psychiatry | QUANTITATIVE SEX HORMONE STUDIES IN HOMOSEXUALITY, CHILDHOOD, AND VARIOUS NEUROPSYCHIATRIC DISTURBANCES

I would suggest that in former times, people with such desires were forced to stay closeted due to general societal rejection of such activities. In recent years, we have seen increasing glorification of such choices in the media, in the entertainment industry, in advertising. A lot of people who would have remained "hidden" have now grasped the widespread media representation of their choice as being somehow glamorous and a desirable demonstration of how "cool" they are. Straights are so uncool because they don't get it.

I respectfully disagree. I dont see it as "glorification" but as acceptance or tolerance. A rejection of the stigma attached to it.

If by "rejection of the stigman", you mean "glorification" then you're right.

 

[bayoubill]

This is somewhat inspired by Maxcha's thread, which... instead of arguing the morality (silly word) of homosexuality, we're arguing in what causes it.

Is it genetic, hormonal, or psychological... or possibly a combination of two or three?

From the evidence I have seen, it seems to be pointing towards hormones. There have been specific twin studies over the past few years that examine sets of twins with differing sexual orientations. Each set of twins are genetically identical and have experienced (relatively) uniform environmental settings. If this is true, the "nurture" aspect of psychological development is omitted with just "nature" left... Since it's not genetic (in this instance), then maybe it's hormonal?

Here's what I can say with a definite answer:

1. Sexual orientation is not a choice.
2. It's is not unnatural... seeing that it's a phenomina that occurs in many other species (not just humans).

By the way, if you're going to make a post in what your opinion is, then please leave links pointing towards evidence that supports your claim.


[youtube]IoZoRbP-0WM[/youtube] [youtube]WTLAof9oXCI[/youtube] [youtube]RGnZgC47SLA[/youtube]

it's like anything else in nature... because of the hard-wired biological imperative to procreate, most males wanna fuck females... and most females wanna fuck males...

but there are always exceptions to the rule... especially once the species evolves to the point where individuals are more concerned about getting their next Starbucks fix...

 

[gallantwarrior]

Possibly not.

Sorry but youre making the same "tyrannical" statement that youre accusing others of making. Youre saying its a choice, as an absolute. It MAY not be a choice, it may be, but we DONT KNOW conclusively.

What we DO KNOW is that the amount of testosterone a fetus recieves during pregnancy does effects its physiology ( both finger length and penis size are directly correlated to it ) We also KNOW that all fetuses begin as an undetermined sex and are only assigned later in gestation once the chromosomes are actually taken into account. In other words, the genetic program says build a basic human being which it does and then in later development says OH ok now we have to determine gender. A fetus is also bombarded with various hormones ( testosterone and estrogen just to name a couple ) that change its physical attributes ( not just gender ).

Thats what we KNOW.

Its being theorized and tested that the timing of those hormonal bombardments ( and the amount of each hormone in the bombardments ) may effect personality and sexuality as well. And this data looks like its going to be proven out. Its meeting the right criteria to be considered hard and correct science. If this turns out to be the case, ( which it maynot be. Other promising science turned out to be wrong when other discoveries were made ) then it is more than likely that sexual preference is NOT a choice.

Unfortunately, even the scientific community has been compromised by today's politics.

In other words, any science that even hints that your opinion might be incorrect is tainted by politics?

Nice that way you dont even have to be wrong, do you?

Not necessarily. But I suggest that any scientific "evidence" be closely examined and verified.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Thank you. Share that with the homotards who continually carp "THERE'S MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE THAT CONFIRM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS HARDWIRED/GENETIC/BIOLOGICAL/NOT A CHOICE!"

Okay..............cool...............what's your answer to this?

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Got anything to refute this?

 

[Sunni Man]

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Got anything to refute this?[/QUOTE]

There is nothing to refute.

All the researchers say is; maybe, seems like, could be, not clear, struggling to understand, ect.

In other words; they don't have a clue if this is related or not.

 

[ekrem]

Lesbians will go straight when a real man get's ahold of them.

Your little wee-wee ain't going to impress any woman gay or not.

Lesbians are more accepted in society than gay men.
In mankind's history there is/was always war and women need love.
Society can accept women loving women when there is shortage of men.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

behaviour affects hormones

I've heard of hormones affecting behavior, but not the other way around. How do you come to this conclusion?

EDIT: Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I was alluding to studies made in how the environmental settings of the womb might effect hormones during prenatal development (which are found in the videos I posted).

Let's try to keep is simple enough: Sexual determination is usually a function of recombination of genes from the male and female contributors. In the case of sexual determination of the fetus, the female contributes only the X chromosome. The male contributes either an X or a Y chromosome. If the male chromosomal contribution contains an X chromosome, the offspring will be female. If a Y chromosome is contributed, the offspring is male. Nature made the choice relatively simple, you are either-or. People later make the choice more complex.

nurture and on off switches of nature (genetic stuff) make choice more complex

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Lesbians will go straight when a real man get's ahold of them.

Your little wee-wee ain't going to impress any woman gay or not.

Lesbians are more accepted in society than gay men.
In mankind's history there is/was always war and women need love.
Society can accept women loving women when there is shortage of men.

It is overwhelmingly men who savagely beat gay people. Of course, it is the gayness of other men, that can turn an otherwise pathetic closet case into a savage loser.

Men who beat gays have very serious issues, since somebody elses gayness is a threat -- how?

 

[koshergrl]

Gays also savagely beat each other. Extremely high DV rate in the homosexual community.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Gays also savagely beat each other. Extremely high DV rate in the homosexual community.

Gays savagely beat each other? No more so than heterosexual couples.

but to deny the appalling savagery of gay attacks is like denying the savagery of sexual sadists

the brutality stuns prosecutors, police and first responders and medical personnel

 

[koshergrl]

No, I think it's a higher incidence than hetero abuse.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

No, I think it's a higher incidence than hetero abuse.

maybe, but it is no way similar to the savage brutality of what came to be called hate crimes.

ask anyone whose seen the result and it is incomprehensible and utterly horrifying. I've seen it a few times. I've seen some bad shit, but not much approaches hate crime beatings. Think Rawanda and Haiti violence...

not very pc, eh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Thank you. Share that with the homotards who continually carp "THERE'S MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE THAT CONFIRM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS HARDWIRED/GENETIC/BIOLOGICAL/NOT A CHOICE!"

Okay..............cool...............what's your answer to this?

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

Got anything to refute this?

This.

From your link.

For something as complex as sexual orientation, it's no surprise that everything from genes to gender to environment may play a role in ultimately determining your perfect partner.

The simple truth is science has no idea how sexual orientation works, never mind whether brain structure affects choice or choice affects brain structure. There is some evidence that behavior can change how the progress of diseases like Alzheimer's, doing something as simple as crosswords can slow it down, perhaps the way people react to things influences the way the brain develops in ways we do not understand.

At this point there is no way to form a scientific theory about the cause of sexual orientation.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Lesbians will go straight when a real man get's ahold of them.

Your little wee-wee ain't going to impress any woman gay or not.

Lesbians are more accepted in society than gay men.
In mankind's history there is/was always war and women need love.
Society can accept women loving women when there is shortage of men.

What do you mean, "more accepted"? Hell, girl-on-girl sex is considered "hot" by most men I know.
Put that aside, women tend to have deeper emotional bonds with others, including other women. Since women attach a greater emotional meaning to sex and physical intimacy, I can see where they might find greater affinity with other women.
Men, on the other hand, mostly just wanna fuck and get their nut.

 

[Vidi]

Thank you. Share that with the homotards who continually carp "THERE'S MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE THAT CONFIRM THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS HARDWIRED/GENETIC/BIOLOGICAL/NOT A CHOICE!"

Okay..............cool...............what's your answer to this?

Got anything to refute this?

This.

From your link.

For something as complex as sexual orientation, it's no surprise that everything from genes to gender to environment may play a role in ultimately determining your perfect partner.

The simple truth is science has no idea how sexual orientation works, never mind whether brain structure affects choice or choice affects brain structure. There is some evidence that behavior can change how the progress of diseases like Alzheimer's, doing something as simple as crosswords can slow it down, perhaps the way people react to things influences the way the brain develops in ways we do not understand.

At this point there is no way to form a scientific theory about the cause of sexual orientation.

Simple truth is, BECAUSE there is no definitive answer as to if its a choice or not, discrimination based on the belief that it IS a choice is based on a false premise and therefore wrong and unconstitutional.