Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapy

[Noomi]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

So, which were bisexuals born, gay or straight?

I guess you could be born attracted to both.

 

[Noomi]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

If people are born that way, then it's probably genetic. If they discover a gay gene, will you support abortion in cases of mothers wanting to abort fetuses with the gay gene?

I would not like it, but I would support it, because I am pro choice.

The question is, would the lifers abort a gay fetus, or give birth to it and take the kid to therapy to 'change' their sexuality?

 

[zakdavis]

Such therapy is potentially problematic, but I still can't see it as inherently "abusive." What bothers me most about hardliners is that they view human life in absolutes. It's either a) all people are born straight and society is making them gay or b) you are born gay or straight and nobody makes those choices.

Bullshit. It's neither.

There is such a thing called genetic predisposition. To deny it is just plain ignorant. It is no less ignorant to refuse to acknowledge that sexual behavior can be conditioned. The psychological community can identify that adult sexual behaviors can be and frequently are affected by childhood experiences. Yet, the subject of homosexuality has somehow become taboo. As a sexual preference or behavior it is off the table for discussion when it comes to that. Why?

I have three children. If one day any one of them told me they were gay, I would not disown them, nor would they become any less in my eyes. However, all things being equal, I would prefer they be straight. I would also prefer they have healthy diets, not be serial rapists, be productive, think critically, and a number of other things that they may or may not do.

Being socially withdrawn is a trait of autism. If I had a child with autism, do I NOT encourage or attempt to condition more social behavior so that he/she can assimilate and function better? Or am I supposed to just let the behavior be because that's "just the way he/she is?"

The example is not meant to say that gays cannot assimilate or function, so don't get antsy. My point is that people are born all kinds of ways, with certain genetic predispositions, and sometimes behaviors are simply conditioned or chosen. In other words, in the multiple choice question of the real world, it's "all of the above." Sometimes people are overweight because of their lifestyle, and sometimes it's because they are genetically predisposed. My point is, why is sexual orientation the only behavior that cannot be discussed among the myriad of behaviors that can be positive/negative, beneficial/harmful, etc.?

There was a time when society completely shunned such behavior and people were far more expected to conform to social norms. If there are genetically predisposed gays now there were then, right? Were they all living miserable lies their whole lives? I don't know any more than anybody else does. I find it hard to believe that at least some of them didn't lead reasonably happy lives, even if there was something "off" that they couldn't quite put their hands on. People live lives they don't necessarily want all the time. People work jobs they hate and are not "fulfilled." Not everybody is able to live their life they way the feel. Likewise, parents try to "force" their children in certain directions all the time, and have done so for thousands of years, and sometimes there are scars. Grow up and welcome to the world.

Do we want to try and prevent abuse by parents? Of course we do. That doesn't make this kind of therapy inherently abusive.

Despite my rant, I am actually very sensitive and tolerant. Anyway, the far lefties can go ahead and give me their ration of shit now.

I read this in my fucking Uncle's voice. Either way, I like this.

 

[George Costanza]

Such therapy is potentially problematic, but I still can't see it as inherently "abusive." What bothers me most about hardliners is that they view human life in absolutes. It's either a) all people are born straight and society is making them gay or b) you are born gay or straight and nobody makes those choices.

Bullshit. It's neither.

There is such a thing called genetic predisposition. To deny it is just plain ignorant. It is no less ignorant to refuse to acknowledge that sexual behavior can be conditioned. The psychological community can identify that adult sexual behaviors can be and frequently are affected by childhood experiences. Yet, the subject of homosexuality has somehow become taboo. As a sexual preference or behavior it is off the table for discussion when it comes to that. Why?

I have three children. If one day any one of them told me they were gay, I would not disown them, nor would they become any less in my eyes. However, all things being equal, I would prefer they be straight. I would also prefer they have healthy diets, not be serial rapists, be productive, think critically, and a number of other things that they may or may not do.

Being socially withdrawn is a trait of autism. If I had a child with autism, do I NOT encourage or attempt to condition more social behavior so that he/she can assimilate and function better? Or am I supposed to just let the behavior be because that's "just the way he/she is?"

The example is not meant to say that gays cannot assimilate or function, so don't get antsy. My point is that people are born all kinds of ways, with certain genetic predispositions, and sometimes behaviors are simply conditioned or chosen. In other words, in the multiple choice question of the real world, it's "all of the above." Sometimes people are overweight because of their lifestyle, and sometimes it's because they are genetically predisposed. My point is, why is sexual orientation the only behavior that cannot be discussed among the myriad of behaviors that can be positive/negative, beneficial/harmful, etc.?

There was a time when society completely shunned such behavior and people were far more expected to conform to social norms. If there are genetically predisposed gays now there were then, right? Were they all living miserable lies their whole lives? I don't know any more than anybody else does. I find it hard to believe that at least some of them didn't lead reasonably happy lives, even if there was something "off" that they couldn't quite put their hands on. People live lives they don't necessarily want all the time. People work jobs they hate and are not "fulfilled." Not everybody is able to live their life they way the feel. Likewise, parents try to "force" their children in certain directions all the time, and have done so for thousands of years, and sometimes there are scars. Grow up and welcome to the world.

Do we want to try and prevent abuse by parents? Of course we do. That doesn't make this kind of therapy inherently abusive.

Despite my rant, I am actually very sensitive and tolerant. Anyway, the far lefties can go ahead and give me their ration of shit now.

An excellent post - almost causes me to change my thinking on this issue in spite of the numberous studies (I guess there have been numerous studies - that's what everyone says and it flows so trippingly off the tongue, doesn't it?) which say that sexual preference is genetic rather than enviornmental.

But I want to focus on that part of your post which I have highlighted in red - the part about obesity. There is an excellent book out titled "Rethinking Thin," written by a woman named "Gina Kolata" (I kid you not - possibly a pseudonym, I don't know). Her name sounds a little whacky but I assure you the book is not.

It explores the question of what causes obesity. The conclusion is that obesity is caused by genetic influences (the illusive and yet-to-be-isolated "fat gene") and not by influenced eating habits. Numerous studies (God, I love that phrase) are cited and the conclusions reached are quite convincing. Basically, the message of the book is that, until science isolates the fat gene, chubbies are pretty much screwed. Nich, huh?

I STRONGLY recommend this book for all of us who are fighting the battle of the bulge.

But this isn't a thread about chubbiness - it's about sexual conversion therapy. Pray do continue . . .

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

This thread is soooooo gay.

 

[NLT]

This thread is soooooo gay.

Look at who started it..not surprising

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

So, which were bisexuals born, gay or straight?

I guess you could be born attracted to both.

You guess there could be a bi-sexual gene?