Separation of church and state makes him want to throw up

[Peach]

You might want to look up what a common law system is since that is what this country is. Case law interpreting the words of the constitution has equal weight with the document itself, since we aren't a code state like France.

You would do well to actually learn something about constitutional construction.

And you might want to look up "admiralty maritime law"...You'll find it in Black's....Then you might learn something about the real jurisdiction we're subjugated under.

wut???

As the name implies, admiralty maritime law concerns the sea, not a national legal system.

Actually, Odd has a point, it extends to land areas in some aspects.
**************************

 

[Big Fitz]

If I "copy" and paste, I put it in a quote box. I'm not concerned with "how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths" - I'm concerned with how any religious faith impacts our government and my personal life. According to our Constitution, no religious faith should be impacting our government and my personal life.

Atheism is a religious faith. I do believe it should not be allowed to impact our government either.

How do you resolve this hypocrisy?

How is Atheism a religion? Is secularism a religion?

Why yes. yes it is. It forms a philosophical structure of beliefs, ethics and... "Morals" I suppose you might have them... that you live by based on your cosmological view of the universe. If you don't believe in God, you do at least believe in something that deals with the great question of "Why?" This is unavoidable.

Therefore, Atheism, Secularism, Humanism are religions of a type, just the way Sufism, Paganism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism are all faiths that deal with "Why" and how we live our lives.

Since Atheism, Secularism and Humanism are NOT default settings for the government OR constitution (which is funny since all those men were Christian or at least Deists of some Christian variant) you cannot tell anyone they must keep their religion must be hidden.

Of course, you'll now deny this is true. So, your retort is...?

 

[Lakhota]

If I "copy" and paste, I put it in a quote box. I'm not concerned with "how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths" - I'm concerned with how any religious faith impacts our government and my personal life. According to our Constitution, no religious faith should be impacting our government and my personal life.

WTF, Tonto?

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

You are plain out eat the fuck up!

There is nothing said about a religious faith impacting the government or your personal life "according to the Constitution", ass-hat.

NO LAW regarding the ESTABLISHMENT of a religion or the FREE EXERCISE thereof.
That means you can't disqualify someone based on their religious preference.


You don't find it weird that you expect tolerance when it comes to homosexuality but refuse the same when it comes to religion?

Damn, I didn't know homosexuals wanted to create a theocracy. Thanks for the update.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Of course, it totally ignored the question about if Santorum was president how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths.

Judicial appointments.

Atheism is a religious faith. I do believe it should not be allowed to impact our government either.

How do you resolve this hypocrisy?

Atheism is not religion, hence there is no hypocrisy.

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

No one has any objection to someone being guided by his faith. It is the codification of that faith which is prohibited by the Establishment Clause.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

Of course, it totally ignored the question about if Santorum was president how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths.

Judicial appointments.

Atheism is a religious faith. I do believe it should not be allowed to impact our government either.

How do you resolve this hypocrisy?

Atheism is not religion, hence there is no hypocrisy.

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

No one has any objection to someone being guided by his faith. It is the codification of that faith which is prohibited by the Establishment Clause.

Then vote against him, but shut the fuck up with your bullshit about he doesn't have the right to believe what he believes.

See how that works?

 

[Big Fitz]

Of course, it totally ignored the question about if Santorum was president how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths.

Judicial appointments.

Atheism is a religious faith. I do believe it should not be allowed to impact our government either.

How do you resolve this hypocrisy?

Atheism is not religion, hence there is no hypocrisy.

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

No one has any objection to someone being guided by his faith. It is the codification of that faith which is prohibited by the Establishment Clause.

No one has any objection to someone being guided by his faith

Many posts here angry at Santorum beg to differ, especially if they are President.

Atheism is not religion, hence there is no hypocrisy.

Really? You can't prove your question of "Why" any more than any other religion. it's an act of faith that you believe there is nothing else after this world and live your life according to the consequences of those faiths.

The fact you deny it's a religion is also a key indicator that it functions as a religion. If someone differs in how they view their atheism, they are viewed as being just as much a heretic as a Hugonaut to a Catholic once was. For instance. An atheist does not believe in a god, but they do believe that aliens created the world and all life. Type of atheist, sure. YOUR type of atheist? Who knows?

Atheism walks, talks, acts, persecutes and proselytizes just like every other religion in the world does. Just in their own inimitable way.

Deny so at your own foolishness.

 

[hortysir]

If I "copy" and paste, I put it in a quote box. I'm not concerned with "how his beliefs would be a threat to those of different faiths" - I'm concerned with how any religious faith impacts our government and my personal life. According to our Constitution, no religious faith should be impacting our government and my personal life.

WTF, Tonto?

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

You are plain out eat the fuck up!

There is nothing said about a religious faith impacting the government or your personal life "according to the Constitution", ass-hat.

NO LAW regarding the ESTABLISHMENT of a religion or the FREE EXERCISE thereof.
That means you can't disqualify someone based on their religious preference.


You don't find it weird that you expect tolerance when it comes to homosexuality but refuse the same when it comes to religion?

Damn, I didn't know homosexuals wanted to create a theocracy. Thanks for the update.

Substitute the word 'homosexuality' with 'atheism', then if it makes you feel better.

You expect people to respect your lack of faith but deny my right to have any??
(free exercise thereof)

 

[g5000]

There is good reason to keep church and state separated. Just as you have to invite the devil into your house before he can enter, you must invite the state into your church, with the end results being the same. The First Amendment protects the church from the state as much as the state from the church.

Alexis de Tocqueville explained another hazard of church-state intermingling. Think about the intermingling between the Religious Right and the Bush Administration when reading this next bit. Tocqueville explained why America separated church and state based on our knowledge of the end result of the lack of such separation in Europe:

The unbelievers of Europe attack the Christians as their political opponents rather than as their religious adversaries; they hate the Christian religion as the opinion of a party much more than as an error of belief; and they reject the clergy less because they are the representatives of the Deity than because they are the allies of government.

In Europe, Christianity has been intimately united to the powers of the earth. Those powers are now in decay, and it is, as it were, buried under their ruins. The living body of religion has been bound down to the dead corpse of superannuated polity; cut but the bonds that restrain it, and it will rise once more. I do not know what could restore the Christian church of Europe to the energy of its earlier days; that power belongs to God alone; but it may be for human policy to leave to faith the full exercise of the strength which it still retains.

On my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. My desire to discover the causes of this phenomenon increased from day to day. In order to satisfy it I questioned the members of all the different sects; I sought especially the society of the clergy, who are the depositaries of the different creeds and are especially interested in their duration. As a member of the Roman Catholic Church, I was more particularly brought into contact with several of its priests, with whom I became intimately acquainted. To each of these men I expressed my astonishment and explained my doubts. I found that they differed upon matters of detail alone, and that they all attributed the peaceful dominion of religion in their country mainly to the separation of church and state. I do not hesitate to affirm that during my stay in America I did not meet a single individual, of the clergy or the laity, who was not of the same opinion on this point.

Tocqueville: Book I Chapter 17

Democracy in America, 1832.

 

[Lakhota]

Atheism is a religious faith. I do believe it should not be allowed to impact our government either.

How do you resolve this hypocrisy?

How is Atheism a religion? Is secularism a religion?

Why yes. yes it is. It forms a philosophical structure of beliefs, ethics and... "Morals" I suppose you might have them... that you live by based on your cosmological view of the universe. If you don't believe in God, you do at least believe in something that deals with the great question of "Why?" This is unavoidable.

Therefore, Atheism, Secularism, Humanism are religions of a type, just the way Sufism, Paganism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism are all faiths that deal with "Why" and how we live our lives.

Since Atheism, Secularism and Humanism are NOT default settings for the government OR constitution (which is funny since all those men were Christian or at least Deists of some Christian variant) you cannot tell anyone they must keep their religion must be hidden.

Of course, you'll now deny this is true. So, your retort is...?

As an Atheist, my retort is that I personally believe in the collective energy of the known universe and beyond which behaves in a random manner. In other words - shit happens.

Atheism Myths: Is Atheism a Religion?

 

[hortysir]

No one has any objection to someone being guided by his faith. It is the codification of that faith which is prohibited by the Establishment Clause.

It's a good thing that no one is calling for such codification, then, hunh?

 

[Big Fitz]

How is Atheism a religion? Is secularism a religion?

Why yes. yes it is. It forms a philosophical structure of beliefs, ethics and... "Morals" I suppose you might have them... that you live by based on your cosmological view of the universe. If you don't believe in God, you do at least believe in something that deals with the great question of "Why?" This is unavoidable.

Therefore, Atheism, Secularism, Humanism are religions of a type, just the way Sufism, Paganism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism are all faiths that deal with "Why" and how we live our lives.

Since Atheism, Secularism and Humanism are NOT default settings for the government OR constitution (which is funny since all those men were Christian or at least Deists of some Christian variant) you cannot tell anyone they must keep their religion must be hidden.

Of course, you'll now deny this is true. So, your retort is...?

As an Atheist, my retort is that I personally believe in the collective energy of the known universe and beyond which behaves in a random manner. In other words - shit happens.

Atheism Myths: Is Atheism a Religion?

Congrats. Your faith is shown clear as day for you.

Now, that religion by your own standard should not be allowed to be practiced in public OR guide you in your political actions.

Is this not true?

 

[Old Rocks]

Letter to the Danbury Baptists - January 1, 1802 - Wikisource

To Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge and Others
A Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut

January 1, 1802

Gentlemen,

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Thomas Jefferson
President of the United States

 

[Lakhota]

WTF, Tonto?

You're that disgusted by any hint of religion that you can't fathom anyone with any sort of Christian values having them guide their decisions?

You are plain out eat the fuck up!

There is nothing said about a religious faith impacting the government or your personal life "according to the Constitution", ass-hat.

NO LAW regarding the ESTABLISHMENT of a religion or the FREE EXERCISE thereof.
That means you can't disqualify someone based on their religious preference.


You don't find it weird that you expect tolerance when it comes to homosexuality but refuse the same when it comes to religion?

Damn, I didn't know homosexuals wanted to create a theocracy. Thanks for the update.

Substitute the word 'homosexuality' with 'atheism', then if it makes you feel better.

You expect people to respect your lack of faith but deny my right to have any??
(free exercise thereof)

WRONG!!!!! You are free to believe whatever you wish - just keep it out of government and my personal life.

 

[Big Fitz]

Damn, I didn't know homosexuals wanted to create a theocracy. Thanks for the update.

Substitute the word 'homosexuality' with 'atheism', then if it makes you feel better.

You expect people to respect your lack of faith but deny my right to have any??
(free exercise thereof)

WRONG!!!!! You are free to believe whatever you wish - just keep it out of government and my personal life.

But you won't respect Christianity in a president. Or government for that matter.

Gotcha.

:::ducks the wildly swinging railroad tie in your eye:::

 

[JimBowie1958]

Santorum: Separation Of Church And State 'Makes Me Want To Throw Up'

Damn that pesky little First Amendment. Its just SO inconvenient to Santorum.

Sadly, there are many rw's who are so dumb, they actually don't realize what this creep is saying.

The First Amendment which protects religous expression is exactly why Sontorum was sickened by JFK's claim that religious speech does not belong in the public square.

Of course, as W Bush would say, 'it was just politics', i.e. as the first Catholic President JFK had many Americans worried he would be told what to do by Rome, and so his statement was given primarily just to allay fears.

But Santorum is right; religious people have the right to express their religious faith and follow it while engaged in politicial endeavors and JFK was totally wrong.

 

[Lakhota]

Why yes. yes it is. It forms a philosophical structure of beliefs, ethics and... "Morals" I suppose you might have them... that you live by based on your cosmological view of the universe. If you don't believe in God, you do at least believe in something that deals with the great question of "Why?" This is unavoidable.

Therefore, Atheism, Secularism, Humanism are religions of a type, just the way Sufism, Paganism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism are all faiths that deal with "Why" and how we live our lives.

Since Atheism, Secularism and Humanism are NOT default settings for the government OR constitution (which is funny since all those men were Christian or at least Deists of some Christian variant) you cannot tell anyone they must keep their religion must be hidden.

Of course, you'll now deny this is true. So, your retort is...?

As an Atheist, my retort is that I personally believe in the collective energy of the known universe and beyond which behaves in a random manner. In other words - shit happens.

Atheism Myths: Is Atheism a Religion?

Congrats. Your faith is shown clear as day for you.

Now, that religion by your own standard should not be allowed to be practiced in public OR guide you in your political actions.

Is this not true?

That is true! Therefore, my lack of religion should not be allowed to influence government any more than yours, or any religion, should be allowed to influence government.

Therefore, let us all be religion-neutral regarding government - like the Constitution intends. BTW, how does one practice Atheism? We don't have a Bible or gods to worship...

Oh, and did you read that link?

 

[bodecea]

There is no separation of church and state mentioned in the first amendment

And there's no guns mentioned in the second amendment.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Letter to the Danbury Baptists - January 1, 1802 - Wikisource

To Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge and Others
A Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association in the State of Connecticut

January 1, 1802

Gentlemen,

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.

Thomas Jefferson
President of the United States

Do you have *any* idea what 'an establishment of religion' meant in TJ's time?

Ever read about the Anglican Church and the special privs they got back then and some of which they still get? The state supporting the Anglican Church with tax payer money, the disqualification for public office of non-Anglicans, the head of the state (king) also being the head of the Anglican Church, that sort of thing was what he was talking about.

Not shit like blue laws and banning polygamy.

 

[Full-Auto]

There is no separation of church and state mentioned in the first amendment

And there's no guns mentioned in the second amendment.

No they were referred to as Arms.

But playing stupid is something you do well.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is no separation of church and state mentioned in the first amendment

And there's no guns mentioned in the second amendment.

And there's no apples and oranges mentioned in the third amendment; so freaking what?

What people are twisting the phrase 'seperation of church and state' to mean is 180 degrees opposite to what the First Amendment actually affirms; complete religious freedom for law abiding citizens. It barred the establishment of an official church like England had at that time and many American states had also.

The seconf amendment was specifically about gun rights, whatever name you choose to refer to it by.