Second Law of Thermodynamics Declared Wrong....

Yep. Like I said, most of the denialists are determined to ignore the last century of science, simply because their political cult commands it.

I can't help but note that you didn't reference any paper describing the observed, measured effects that you claim. Why is it that you continue to claim fact when we all know that it isn't.

And that would be why most of the planet correctly classifies them as cultists.

Newsflash...it is you who is claiming that things are fact and have been proven while remaining unable to produce any actual paper describing observations or measurements of those claimed facts. It is you who is operating on faith here, not me. I am the one asking for proof and you are the one who can't provide it.
 
Actually, SSoooDDuuumb, you're "on the crazy train" of being too retarded to understand the difference between conductive transfer of heat and radiative transfer of energy and then fantasizing that you understand the science better than all of the world's actual scientists. You poor confused retard!

Do you believe that energy can spontaneously move from any given entropy state to a lower entropy state. It is a yes or no question.
Does a blanket keep your body warmer on a cold night than sleeping naked would? It is a yes or no question.

Is the blanket in a higher "entropy state than your body?

--LOL

C02 does not act like a blanket

--LOL
 
Does a blanket keep your body warmer on a cold night than sleeping naked would? It is a yes or no question.

The blanket stops convection and conduction allowing my body to warm the air under the blanket...my body temperature does not increase...I don't get a fever every night just because I cover up.

Is the blanket in a higher "entropy state than your body?

With that question, it becomes painfully obvious that this topic is way over your head..

without question

--LOL
 
Does a blanket keep your body warmer on a cold night than sleeping naked would? It is a yes or no question.

The blanket stops convection and conduction allowing my body to warm the air under the blanket...my body temperature does not increase...I don't get a fever every night just because I cover up.

Is the blanket in a higher "entropy state than your body?

With that question, it becomes painfully obvious that this topic is way over your head...with your refusal to answer a simple yes or no question, it also becomes clear that you simply don't grasp the subject matter, and finally, your attempt to equate the blocking of convection and conduction with energy moving spontaneously to a lower entropy state makes it inarguable that this subject is just beyond you.

Now, do you want to answer the simple yes or no question or go on the record as not having the slightest clue which would lead you to either a yes or no answer.

Do you believe that energy can spontaneously move from any given entropy state to a lower entropy state. It is a yes or no question.
Does a blanket keep your body warmer on a cold night than sleeping naked would? It is a yes or no question.

Is the blanket in a higher "entropy state than your body?

--LOL

C02 does not act like a blanket

--LOL

LOL indeed, morons.

A Greenhouse Effect Analogy
American Chemical Society

When you stand in sunlight, you feel warmer than when you are in shadow, so you can feel that light from the sun carries energy that can warm an object—you. You can feel the warming effect, even if the sunlight comes through a window before it hits you. In the same way, the soil, pots, plants, and so on inside a greenhouse, like the one pictured here, are warmed by the sunlight that shines through its transparent walls and roof. The air inside the greenhouse is then warmed by contact with the warm objects. If the door and ventilation windows are closed, the warm air can’t escape, so the temperature of everything in the greenhouse goes up. Nowadays we hear a lot about the “greenhouse effect” because the Earth is warm and it is some gases in the air (greenhouse gases) that are responsible for keeping the Earth warm and suitable for life as we know it. Energy from sunlight is the source of the warmth in a greenhouse, because the sunlight can pass right through the transparent enclosure. Energy from sunlight is also the source of the warmth on Earth, because the atmosphere is pretty transparent to sunlight. However, the way the Earth and its atmosphere work to stay warm is different from the way a greenhouse works, so the term “greenhouse effect” is a bit misleading.

A different analogy is the atmosphere acting like a blanket. Think of yourself under a blanket in a cold room. You represent the Earth, a warm body giving off energy, what we usually call “heat”. The blanket represents the atmospheric layer of greenhouse gases. As the heat energy leaves your body it is absorbed by the innermost fibers of the blanket. As they give off some of that energy, they warm the next layer of fibers and so on and on until some energy leaves the outermost cold fiber layer and is lost to the room. Just as the sun continually warms the Earth, you continually produce energy through respiration. You will finally reach a balance where the energy leaving the blanket is equal to the energy you produce and your skin will remain at a constant temperature, just like the surface of the Earth. Among the Earth’s blanket of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide is the one you probably hear about most often, because it is increasing in the atmosphere as we burn a great deal of coal, oil, and gas for energy. Besides carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases include water vapor, methane (natural gas), nitrous oxide (from fertilizer use), and chlorine- and fluorine-containing gases used in air conditioning units and as solvents. Adding more greenhouse gas to the atmosphere increases the amount of absorption and release of heat energy required for the energy from the surface to reach the top of the atmosphere and go off into space. In our blanket analogy, this is like putting on another blanket, so there are more layers of blanket fibers for the energy to pass through to reach the top. The old energy balance is upset and after a time a new one takes its place with you feeling warmer than before. This is what is occurring for the Earth as well. The increased amounts of greenhouse gases our activities are adding to the atmosphere have upset the balance that was in place since the end of the last ice age and the Earth is getting warmer than it was before we started burning large amounts of fossil fuels.
 
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The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a testable principle. Its part of thermodynamic theory. This is obvious.

Yes, and one can test that it doesn't hold on the level of individual atoms.

It doesn't have meaning on the microscopic level. Its a statistical property.

In classical thermodynamics -- the old way, the one thought up before they knew about atoms -- the second law is a postulate or axiom, something to be accepted as true by definition.

In statistical thermodynamics -- the new way -- the second law is an observation of the statistically average behavior of a system of zillions of atoms. And nothing in it constrains individual atoms or photons from going against the average.

OK. So what?

If people want to deny the last century of thermodynamics because their political cult has ordered them too, we can't stop them. But we will point out how absurd they look.
OK. Then point it out. Let me know when you do.
 
The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a testable principle. Its part of thermodynamic theory. This is obvious.

Rattle on as much as you like....it won't change the fact that it is a law. Were it theory, it would be called the second theory of thermodynamics.

It is both part of a theory and it is also a law. Much like Newton's 1st law is part of the theory of classical mechanics.


What is it that makes warmers such idiots that you take impossibly stupid stands and then try to defend them?

I'm not sure what is "stupid" about my "stand". I'm merely using the definitions of words that the scientific community uses.
 
It doesn't have meaning on the microscopic level. Its a statistical property.

Lets see the observed, measured, experimental proof. All previous requests for actual evidence have failed...may as well give you the chance to fail as well. You know that there is no actual measured evidence and that your claims are nothing more than the output of mathematical and computer models...why pretend that they are actual fact?

In statistical thermodynamics -- the new way --

The new way? Meaning the post modern way where actual proof is not necessary...where a claim based on mathematical models becomes fact? Let me know when you get some observed measured fact rather than simply depending on faith.
 
It is both part of a theory and it is also a law. Much like Newton's 1st law is part of the theory of classical mechanics.

The second law of thermodynamics as well as the zeroth, first, second, and third are laws...not to be confused with theory.

I'm not sure what is "stupid" about my "stand". I'm merely using the definitions of words that the scientific community uses.

What makes it stupid is that you are claiming that the second law of thermodynamics is both a theory and a law when it is no such thing. It is a fundamental law of nature...
 
It doesn't have meaning on the microscopic level. Its a statistical property.

Lets see the observed, measured, experimental proof. All previous requests for actual evidence have failed...may as well give you the chance to fail as well. You know that there is no actual measured evidence and that your claims are nothing more than the output of mathematical and computer models...why pretend that they are actual fact?

Right, there's no experimental evidence for the 2nd law - except it hasn't been violated in any experiment.

In statistical thermodynamics -- the new way --

The new way? Meaning the post modern way where actual proof is not necessary...where a claim based on mathematical models becomes fact? Let me know when you get some observed measured fact rather than simply depending on faith.

I didn't say that. You misquoted me. Please correct.
 
It is both part of a theory and it is also a law. Much like Newton's 1st law is part of the theory of classical mechanics.

The second law of thermodynamics as well as the zeroth, first, second, and third are laws...not to be confused with theory.

They are part of thermodynamic theory. You really don't even know what you're talking about.

I'm not sure what is "stupid" about my "stand". I'm merely using the definitions of words that the scientific community uses.

What makes it stupid is that you are claiming that the second law of thermodynamics is both a theory and a law when it is no such thing. It is a fundamental law of nature...


I'm failing to see how thermodynamic theory isn't theory.
 
LOL indeed, morons.

A Greenhouse Effect Analogy
American Chemical Society

When you stand in sunlight, you feel warmer than when you are in shadow, so you can feel that light from the sun carries energy that can warm an object—you. You can feel the warming effect, even if the sunlight comes through a window before it hits you. In the same way, the soil, pots, plants, and so on inside a greenhouse, like the one pictured here, are warmed by the sunlight that shines through its transparent walls and roof. The air inside the greenhouse is then warmed by contact with the warm objects. If the door and ventilation windows are closed, the warm air can’t escape, so the temperature of everything in the greenhouse goes up. Nowadays we hear a lot about the “greenhouse effect” because the Earth is warm and it is some gases in the air (greenhouse gases) that are responsible for keeping the Earth warm and suitable for life as we know it. Energy from sunlight is the source of the warmth in a greenhouse, because the sunlight can pass right through the transparent enclosure. Energy from sunlight is also the source of the warmth on Earth, because the atmosphere is pretty transparent to sunlight. However, the way the Earth and its atmosphere work to stay warm is different from the way a greenhouse works, so the term “greenhouse effect” is a bit misleading.

A different analogy is the atmosphere acting like a blanket. Think of yourself under a blanket in a cold room. You represent the Earth, a warm body giving off energy, what we usually call “heat”. The blanket represents the atmospheric layer of greenhouse gases. As the heat energy leaves your body it is absorbed by the innermost fibers of the blanket. As they give off some of that energy, they warm the next layer of fibers and so on and on until some energy leaves the outermost cold fiber layer and is lost to the room. Just as the sun continually warms the Earth, you continually produce energy through respiration. You will finally reach a balance where the energy leaving the blanket is equal to the energy you produce and your skin will remain at a constant temperature, just like the surface of the Earth. Among the Earth’s blanket of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide is the one you probably hear about most often, because it is increasing in the atmosphere as we burn a great deal of coal, oil, and gas for energy. Besides carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases include water vapor, methane (natural gas), nitrous oxide (from fertilizer use), and chlorine- and fluorine-containing gases used in air conditioning units and as solvents. Adding more greenhouse gas to the atmosphere increases the amount of absorption and release of heat energy required for the energy from the surface to reach the top of the atmosphere and go off into space. In our blanket analogy, this is like putting on another blanket, so there are more layers of blanket fibers for the energy to pass through to reach the top. The old energy balance is upset and after a time a new one takes its place with you feeling warmer than before. This is what is occurring for the Earth as well. The increased amounts of greenhouse gases our activities are adding to the atmosphere have upset the balance that was in place since the end of the last ice age and the Earth is getting warmer than it was before we started burning large amounts of fossil fuels.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Ignorant pablum fabricated to preach to morons.

It's why we point out that you cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
 
LOL indeed, morons.

A Greenhouse Effect Analogy
American Chemical Society

When you stand in sunlight, you feel warmer than when you are in shadow, so you can feel that light from the sun carries energy that can warm an object—you. You can feel the warming effect, even if the sunlight comes through a window before it hits you. In the same way, the soil, pots, plants, and so on inside a greenhouse, like the one pictured here, are warmed by the sunlight that shines through its transparent walls and roof. The air inside the greenhouse is then warmed by contact with the warm objects. If the door and ventilation windows are closed, the warm air can’t escape, so the temperature of everything in the greenhouse goes up. Nowadays we hear a lot about the “greenhouse effect” because the Earth is warm and it is some gases in the air (greenhouse gases) that are responsible for keeping the Earth warm and suitable for life as we know it. Energy from sunlight is the source of the warmth in a greenhouse, because the sunlight can pass right through the transparent enclosure. Energy from sunlight is also the source of the warmth on Earth, because the atmosphere is pretty transparent to sunlight. However, the way the Earth and its atmosphere work to stay warm is different from the way a greenhouse works, so the term “greenhouse effect” is a bit misleading.

A different analogy is the atmosphere acting like a blanket. Think of yourself under a blanket in a cold room. You represent the Earth, a warm body giving off energy, what we usually call “heat”. The blanket represents the atmospheric layer of greenhouse gases. As the heat energy leaves your body it is absorbed by the innermost fibers of the blanket. As they give off some of that energy, they warm the next layer of fibers and so on and on until some energy leaves the outermost cold fiber layer and is lost to the room. Just as the sun continually warms the Earth, you continually produce energy through respiration. You will finally reach a balance where the energy leaving the blanket is equal to the energy you produce and your skin will remain at a constant temperature, just like the surface of the Earth. Among the Earth’s blanket of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide is the one you probably hear about most often, because it is increasing in the atmosphere as we burn a great deal of coal, oil, and gas for energy. Besides carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases include water vapor, methane (natural gas), nitrous oxide (from fertilizer use), and chlorine- and fluorine-containing gases used in air conditioning units and as solvents. Adding more greenhouse gas to the atmosphere increases the amount of absorption and release of heat energy required for the energy from the surface to reach the top of the atmosphere and go off into space. In our blanket analogy, this is like putting on another blanket, so there are more layers of blanket fibers for the energy to pass through to reach the top. The old energy balance is upset and after a time a new one takes its place with you feeling warmer than before. This is what is occurring for the Earth as well. The increased amounts of greenhouse gases our activities are adding to the atmosphere have upset the balance that was in place since the end of the last ice age and the Earth is getting warmer than it was before we started burning large amounts of fossil fuels.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Ignorant pablum fabricated to preach to morons.
It's actually an explanation of the greenhouse effect from scientists at The American Chemical Society. You're just too stupid to comprehend it, moron.





It's why we point out that you cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
No, your rejection of science is why the intelligent and aware people point out that you denier cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
 
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LOL indeed, morons.

A Greenhouse Effect Analogy
American Chemical Society

When you stand in sunlight, you feel warmer than when you are in shadow, so you can feel that light from the sun carries energy that can warm an object—you. You can feel the warming effect, even if the sunlight comes through a window before it hits you. In the same way, the soil, pots, plants, and so on inside a greenhouse, like the one pictured here, are warmed by the sunlight that shines through its transparent walls and roof. The air inside the greenhouse is then warmed by contact with the warm objects. If the door and ventilation windows are closed, the warm air can’t escape, so the temperature of everything in the greenhouse goes up. Nowadays we hear a lot about the “greenhouse effect” because the Earth is warm and it is some gases in the air (greenhouse gases) that are responsible for keeping the Earth warm and suitable for life as we know it. Energy from sunlight is the source of the warmth in a greenhouse, because the sunlight can pass right through the transparent enclosure. Energy from sunlight is also the source of the warmth on Earth, because the atmosphere is pretty transparent to sunlight. However, the way the Earth and its atmosphere work to stay warm is different from the way a greenhouse works, so the term “greenhouse effect” is a bit misleading.

A different analogy is the atmosphere acting like a blanket. Think of yourself under a blanket in a cold room. You represent the Earth, a warm body giving off energy, what we usually call “heat”. The blanket represents the atmospheric layer of greenhouse gases. As the heat energy leaves your body it is absorbed by the innermost fibers of the blanket. As they give off some of that energy, they warm the next layer of fibers and so on and on until some energy leaves the outermost cold fiber layer and is lost to the room. Just as the sun continually warms the Earth, you continually produce energy through respiration. You will finally reach a balance where the energy leaving the blanket is equal to the energy you produce and your skin will remain at a constant temperature, just like the surface of the Earth. Among the Earth’s blanket of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide is the one you probably hear about most often, because it is increasing in the atmosphere as we burn a great deal of coal, oil, and gas for energy. Besides carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases include water vapor, methane (natural gas), nitrous oxide (from fertilizer use), and chlorine- and fluorine-containing gases used in air conditioning units and as solvents. Adding more greenhouse gas to the atmosphere increases the amount of absorption and release of heat energy required for the energy from the surface to reach the top of the atmosphere and go off into space. In our blanket analogy, this is like putting on another blanket, so there are more layers of blanket fibers for the energy to pass through to reach the top. The old energy balance is upset and after a time a new one takes its place with you feeling warmer than before. This is what is occurring for the Earth as well. The increased amounts of greenhouse gases our activities are adding to the atmosphere have upset the balance that was in place since the end of the last ice age and the Earth is getting warmer than it was before we started burning large amounts of fossil fuels.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Ignorant pablum fabricated to preach to morons.
It's actually an explanation of the greenhouse effect from scientists at The American Chemical Society. You're just too stupid to comprehend it, moron.





It's why we point out that you cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
No, your rejection of science is why the intelligent and aware people point out that you denier cultists have nothing to do with actual science.








Yes, our rejection of your pseudo-science is well known. What's nice is the globe is no longer cooperating with your fraud and the whole house of cards is collapsing around your ears.

Must suck to be you....
 
And once again for the really slow ones....

The Greenhouse Effect
University Corporation for Atmospheric Research (UCAR)
(TERMS OF USE - Copyright Issues - Use. The user is granted the right to use the Site for non-commercial, non-profit research, or educational purposes only, without any fee or cost.)

The Goldilocks Principle can be summed up neatly as "Venus is too hot, Mars is too cold, and Earth is just right." The fact that Earth has an average surface temperature comfortably between the boiling point and freezing point of water, and thus is suitable for our sort of life, cannot be explained by simply suggesting that our planet orbits at just the right distance from the sun to absorb just the right amount of solar radiation. Our moderate temperatures are also the result of having just the right kind of atmosphere. A Venus-type atmosphere would produce hellish, Venus-like conditions on our planet; a Mars atmosphere would leave us shivering in a Martian-type deep freeze. Instead, parts of our atmosphere act as an insulating blanket of just the right thickness, trapping sufficient solar energy to keep the global average temperature in a pleasant range. The Martian blanket is too thin, and the Venusian blanket is way too thick! The 'blanket' here is a collection of atmospheric gases called 'greenhouse gases' based on the idea that the gases also 'trap' heat like the glass walls of a greenhouse do.
gheffect.gif

These gases, mainly water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), and nitrous oxide (N2O), all act as effective global insulators. To understand why, it's important to understand a few basic facts about solar radiation and the structure of atmospheric gases.

The sun radiates vast quantities of energy into space, across a wide spectrum of wavelengths.
spectrum.gif

Most of the radiant energy from the sun is concentrated in the visible and near-visible parts of the spectrum. The narrow band of visible light, between 400 and 700 nm, represents 43% of the total radiant energy emitted. Wavelengths shorter than the visible account for 7 to 8% of the total, but are extremely important because of their high energy per photon. The shorter the wavelength of light, the more energy it contains. Thus, ultraviolet light is very energetic (capable of breaking apart stable biological molecules and causing sunburn and skin cancers). The remaining 49 - 50% of the radiant energy is spread over the wavelengths longer than those of visible light. These lie in the near infrared range from 700 to 1000 nm; the thermal infrared, between 5 and 20 microns; and the far infrared regions. Various components of earth's atmosphere absorb ultraviolet and infrared solar radiation before it penetrates to the surface, but the atmosphere is quite transparent to visible light.
radiate.gif

Absorbed by land, oceans, and vegetation at the surface, the visible light is transformed into heat and re-radiates in the form of invisible infrared radiation. If that was all there was to the story, then during the day earth would heat up, but at night, all the accumulated energy would radiate back into space and the planet's surface temperature would fall far below zero very rapidly. The reason this doesn't happen is that earth's atmosphere contains molecules that absorb the heat and re-radiate the heat in all directions. This reduces the heat radiated out to space. Called 'greenhouse gases' because they serve to hold heat in like the glass walls of a greenhouse, these molecules are responsible for the fact that the earth enjoys temperatures suitable for our active and complex biosphere.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is one of the greenhouse gases. It consists of one carbon atom with an oxygen atom bonded to each side. When its atoms are bonded tightly together, the carbon dioxide molecule can absorb infrared radiation and the molecule starts to vibrate. Eventually, the vibrating molecule will emit the radiation again, and it will likely be absorbed by yet another greenhouse gas molecule. This absorption-emission-absorption cycle serves to keep the heat near the surface, effectively insulating the surface from the cold of space.
carbon.gif

Carbon dioxide, water vapor (H2O), methane (CH4), nitorus oxide (N2O), and a few other gases are greenhouse gases. They all are molecules composed of more than two component atoms, bound loosely enough together to be able to vibrate with the absorption of heat. The major components of the atmosphere ( and ) are two-atom molecules too tightly bound together to vibrate and thus they do not absorb heat and contribute to the greenhouse effect.

Greenhouse Effect

Atmospheric scientists first used the term 'greenhouse effect' in the early 1800s. At that time, it was used to describe the naturally occurring functions of trace gases in the atmosphere and did not have any negative connotations. It was not until the mid-1950s that the term greenhouse effect was coupled with concern over climate change. And in recent decades, we often hear about the greenhouse effect in somewhat negative terms. The negative concerns are related to the possible impacts of an enhanced greenhouse effect. This is covered in more detail in the Global Climate Change section of this Web site. It is important to remember that without the greenhouse effect, life on earth as we know it would not be possible.
 
That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Ignorant pablum fabricated to preach to morons.
It's actually an explanation of the greenhouse effect from scientists at The American Chemical Society. You're just too stupid to comprehend it, moron.





It's why we point out that you cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
No, your rejection of science is why the intelligent and aware people point out that you denier cultists have nothing to do with actual science.
Yes, our rejection of your pseudo-science is well known. What's nice is the globe is no longer cooperating with your fraud and the whole house of cards is collapsing around your ears.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL....oh, Walleyedretard, your denier cult myths are as hilarious as ever....isn't it funny how all of the real scientists are producing "pseudo-science" in your little denier cult bizarro-world....you are soooo funny.....
 
It's actually an explanation of the greenhouse effect from scientists at The American Chemical Society. You're just too stupid to comprehend it, moron.

It's a fairy tale fabricated by AGW cultists to manipulate the stupid.

So called green house gases do no impede convection.

The religious tract you posted is no different that the ignorance of showing Jesus walking with dinosaurs. Both show an absolute disregard for fact and for the scientific process.

No, your rejection of science is why the intelligent and aware people point out that you denier cultists have nothing to do with actual science.

And yet it is your fuckwad religion claiming that GHG act like a "blanket."

Moron.
 
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It's actually an explanation of the greenhouse effect from scientists at The American Chemical Society. You're just too stupid to comprehend it, moron.

It's a fairy tale fabricated by AGW cultists
LOLOLOLOLOLO....yes, yes, of course virtually all of the world's scientists are "AGW cultists", you poor bamboozled denier cult retard.





to manipulate the stupid.
Well, you are very stupid and totally manipulated....




So called green house gases do no impede convection.
Nobody said that they did, nitwit. GHGs impede radiative transfer of energy. "Like a blanket" is an analogy for the ability of GHGs to absorb infrared radiation and slow heat transfer.





The religious tract you posted is no different that the ignorance of showing Jesus walking with dinosaurs. Both show an absolute disregard for fact and for the scientific process.
Calling scientific studies by actual climate scientists "religious tracts" just further demonstrates that you are an anti-science denier cult retard who knows nothing about either the "facts" of the matter or the "scientific process".





No, your rejection of science is why the intelligent and aware people point out that you denier cultists have nothing to do with actual science.

And yet it is your fuckwad religion claiming that GHG act like a "blanket."

Moron.
You reject what you can't comprehend, just like a good little brainwashed moron. In fact, GHGs do act like a blanket that impedes the flow of heat energy from the Earth's surface to space.
 
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