Sean Penn: The "Malvinas"

[Colin]

Even smart people do stupid things... And this was kind of stupid.

A lot of smart brits thought so at the time and think so now.

Frankly, if I were someone waiting six months for cancer treatment, and the government was spending a few billion a year maintaining the capability to defend sheep in the South Atlantic, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Once again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of life outside of your tiny parochial bubble. One doesn't wait six months for cancer treatment. You are treated immediately...as was I last year. And what, in your mistaken mind do you call 'a LOT of smart Brits'? Six? Twenty? One hundred? You're even more stupid than I first gave you credit for.

Well, Roger Waters. One of the Brits I actually respect.

And ummmm, from what the guys who oppose universal health care, including a lot of your new Right Wing friends on this thread, they always point out how horrible health care is in your country when reminding us why we shouldn't have universal health care in this one.

So what were those riots about last year if they weren't about the fact you guys are broke?

Having recently benefitted from health care in my country, I disagree. But I recognise that you are FAR more of an expert on my country than me. Living here, how could I possibly know more about it than someone like you! Oh and by the way...I somehow knew you would eventually resort to calling out the right wing. It's what you moronic wingnuts seem to live for.

Oh, so the riots were about us being broke, were they? And there's me thinking they started as a result of the police shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. How silly of me!

I tell you what mate. Before you flap your gob, make sure you have at least a modicum of knowledge about your subject. That way you may avoid exposing just how ill-informed you are. BTW isn't your country rather broke too? Perhaps you should be more concerned for your own back yard, rather than worrying about mine.

 

[Colin]

Again, guy, you fought a war over Islands were they only had a few people and lots of sheep. For what it cost to fight that war, you could have paid each sheepherder a million dollars to go live somewhere nice.

That's your opinion, but it seems that most here recognise your opinion for what it's worth. Nothing. They are, of course, right.

not sure who "most people" here are or why you would care what other people think all that much. If you are going through life lving for the praise of others, you will always be disappointed.

Again, given the loss of life over a region where no one wanted to live of such little value, the war was a joke. We made songs in this country at the time mocking it, because we all thought it was so stupid.

But someone waves a flag and says, "Go fight a war", you will always get people dumb enough to do it. I was dumb enough to do it when I was younger. Now I know better.

The islanders want to live there...so wrong again, pal. As for worthless...once again your ignorance on the subject prevails!

 

[JoeB131]

Having recently benefitted from health care in my country, I disagree. But I recognise that you are FAR more of an expert on my country than me. Living here, how could I possibly know more about it than someone like you! Oh and by the way...I somehow knew you would eventually resort to calling out the right wing. It's what you moronic wingnuts seem to live for.

Oh, so the riots were about us being broke, were they? And there's me thinking they started as a result of the police shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. How silly of me!

I tell you what mate. Before you flap your gob, make sure you have at least a modicum of knowledge about your subject. That way you may avoid exposing just how ill-informed you are. BTW isn't your country rather broke too? Perhaps you should be more concerned for your own back yard, rather than worrying about mine.

I've posted 10K posts here. Probably less than 100 of them have been about the UK.

Most of the rest have been about this country, and how we should fix things going forward. So that's an argument fail.

Incidently, I was at a conference last week with someone from your country, and he had little nice to say about your NIH. So, yes, without actually having to live there, I have to go by what people from your country tell me, and I hear more bad than good about NIH. I could probably find a lot of NIH Horror stories I could link to,as well, but I'm trying to keep this thread on topic.

I do also recall that the riot that they attacked Charles and Camilla's car over was about budget cuts to scholarships and such, or at least that's how it was reported.

Also, incidently, I'm a registered Republican and have voted for the GOP Candidate in every election since 1980. I won't this time because I hate Romney. Unfortunately, the loud, crazy right wing has so dominated this party that its' something I barely recognize anymore. So maybe you need to educate yourself on America before you go about whining about how I'm misjudging your country.

Now, back to the topic. How is it perfectly okay to hand over millions of people in Hong Kong to a communist regime that slaughters its own people for transplant organs, but you are going to fight to the death over some fuckin' sheep.

That seems like the actions of 1) A person who has his priorities screwed up or, 2) A cowardly bully.

 

[JoeB131]

That's your opinion, but it seems that most here recognise your opinion for what it's worth. Nothing. They are, of course, right.

not sure who "most people" here are or why you would care what other people think all that much. If you are going through life lving for the praise of others, you will always be disappointed.

Again, given the loss of life over a region where no one wanted to live of such little value, the war was a joke. We made songs in this country at the time mocking it, because we all thought it was so stupid.

But someone waves a flag and says, "Go fight a war", you will always get people dumb enough to do it. I was dumb enough to do it when I was younger. Now I know better.

The islanders want to live there...so wrong again, pal. As for worthless...once again your ignorance on the subject prevails!

Again, 3140 people according to the 2008 estimate. (It was less at the time of the war).

More people are displaced by construction projects... We moved more people out of their homes in the recent Airport expansion here in Chicago.

Not worth fighting a war that killed 1000 people over, and not worth spending hundreds of millions maintaining the ability to defend them.

Seriously, this is looking more and more like the old guy who has to wear an off-color rug in order to feel young. It's kind of sad, really.

 

[Colin]

Having recently benefitted from health care in my country, I disagree. But I recognise that you are FAR more of an expert on my country than me. Living here, how could I possibly know more about it than someone like you! Oh and by the way...I somehow knew you would eventually resort to calling out the right wing. It's what you moronic wingnuts seem to live for.

Oh, so the riots were about us being broke, were they? And there's me thinking they started as a result of the police shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. How silly of me!

I tell you what mate. Before you flap your gob, make sure you have at least a modicum of knowledge about your subject. That way you may avoid exposing just how ill-informed you are. BTW isn't your country rather broke too? Perhaps you should be more concerned for your own back yard, rather than worrying about mine.

I've posted 10K posts here. Probably less than 100 of them have been about the UK.

Most of the rest have been about this country, and how we should fix things going forward. So that's an argument fail.

Incidently, I was at a conference last week with someone from your country, and he had little nice to say about your NIH. So, yes, without actually having to live there, I have to go by what people from your country tell me, and I hear more bad than good about NIH. I could probably find a lot of NIH Horror stories I could link to,as well, but I'm trying to keep this thread on topic.

I do also recall that the riot that they attacked Charles and Camilla's car over was about budget cuts to scholarships and such, or at least that's how it was reported.

Also, incidently, I'm a registered Republican and have voted for the GOP Candidate in every election since 1980. I won't this time because I hate Romney. Unfortunately, the loud, crazy right wing has so dominated this party that its' something I barely recognize anymore. So maybe you need to educate yourself on America before you go about whining about how I'm misjudging your country.

Now, back to the topic. How is it perfectly okay to hand over millions of people in Hong Kong to a communist regime that slaughters its own people for transplant organs, but you are going to fight to the death over some fuckin' sheep.

That seems like the actions of 1) A person who has his priorities screwed up or, 2) A cowardly bully.

Lol! You really are one ignorant individual. Misjudging your country? Introducing meaningless rhetoric again to divert from your ignorance, eh! Why not invent something else I never said just as icing on the cake.

Yet again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of facts! I really do suggest that you go read up on the history of Hong Kong before you embarrass yourself further. The handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese was wrapped up in how we obtained sovereignty in the area. Some by treaty and other by the terms of a 99 year lease. The lease expired in 1997.

I realise that this thread is nothing more than you wishing to vent your dislike of the British, so why not just come out with it, rather than attempting to use situations you know little about. So, back to the topic. In YOUR opinion the Falklands war was stupid. Fine. You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but expect to be pulled up when you start introducing empty rhetoric and make believe instead of cold hard facts.

 

[Colin]

not sure who "most people" here are or why you would care what other people think all that much. If you are going through life lving for the praise of others, you will always be disappointed.

Again, given the loss of life over a region where no one wanted to live of such little value, the war was a joke. We made songs in this country at the time mocking it, because we all thought it was so stupid.

But someone waves a flag and says, "Go fight a war", you will always get people dumb enough to do it. I was dumb enough to do it when I was younger. Now I know better.

The islanders want to live there...so wrong again, pal. As for worthless...once again your ignorance on the subject prevails!

Again, 3140 people according to the 2008 estimate. (It was less at the time of the war).

More people are displaced by construction projects... We moved more people out of their homes in the recent Airport expansion here in Chicago.

Not worth fighting a war that killed 1000 people over, and not worth spending hundreds of millions maintaining the ability to defend them.

Seriously, this is looking more and more like the old guy who has to wear an off-color rug in order to feel young. It's kind of sad, really.

Go tell that to the Falklanders and see what short shrift you would get. Clearly you have nothing of relevance to add to your argument except your personal opinion, so not much more to discuss really. I've got your message loud and clear. You don't like the Brits and we were stupid to liberate the Falklanders from Argentinian invasion. There will always be a few people like you bleating their rhetoric...but are we worried? Nah. Listening to the misinformed can be highly amusing.

 

[California Girl]

Having recently benefitted from health care in my country, I disagree. But I recognise that you are FAR more of an expert on my country than me. Living here, how could I possibly know more about it than someone like you! Oh and by the way...I somehow knew you would eventually resort to calling out the right wing. It's what you moronic wingnuts seem to live for.

Oh, so the riots were about us being broke, were they? And there's me thinking they started as a result of the police shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham. How silly of me!

I tell you what mate. Before you flap your gob, make sure you have at least a modicum of knowledge about your subject. That way you may avoid exposing just how ill-informed you are. BTW isn't your country rather broke too? Perhaps you should be more concerned for your own back yard, rather than worrying about mine.

I've posted 10K posts here. Probably less than 100 of them have been about the UK.

Most of the rest have been about this country, and how we should fix things going forward. So that's an argument fail.

Incidently, I was at a conference last week with someone from your country, and he had little nice to say about your NIH. So, yes, without actually having to live there, I have to go by what people from your country tell me, and I hear more bad than good about NIH. I could probably find a lot of NIH Horror stories I could link to,as well, but I'm trying to keep this thread on topic.

I do also recall that the riot that they attacked Charles and Camilla's car over was about budget cuts to scholarships and such, or at least that's how it was reported.

Also, incidently, I'm a registered Republican and have voted for the GOP Candidate in every election since 1980. I won't this time because I hate Romney. Unfortunately, the loud, crazy right wing has so dominated this party that its' something I barely recognize anymore. So maybe you need to educate yourself on America before you go about whining about how I'm misjudging your country.

Now, back to the topic. How is it perfectly okay to hand over millions of people in Hong Kong to a communist regime that slaughters its own people for transplant organs, but you are going to fight to the death over some fuckin' sheep.

That seems like the actions of 1) A person who has his priorities screwed up or, 2) A cowardly bully.

Lol! You really are one ignorant individual. Misjudging your country? Introducing meaningless rhetoric again to divert from your ignorance, eh! Why not invent something else I never said just as icing on the cake.

Yet again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of facts! I really do suggest that you go read up on the history of Hong Kong before you embarrass yourself further. The handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese was wrapped up in how we obtained sovereignty in the area. Some by treaty and other by the terms of a 99 year lease. The lease expired in 1997.

I realise that this thread is nothing more than you wishing to vent your dislike of the British, so why not just come out with it, rather than attempting to use situations you know little about. So, back to the topic. In YOUR opinion the Falklands war was stupid. Fine. You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but expect to be pulled up when you start introducing empty rhetoric and make believe instead of cold hard facts.

How strange that Joey compares the handover of Hong Kong to the conflict over the Falklands. That's some breathtakingly dumb shit. I'm glad you have so much patience with my historically challenged fellow Americans.

 

[Artevelde]

I've posted 10K posts here. Probably less than 100 of them have been about the UK.

Most of the rest have been about this country, and how we should fix things going forward. So that's an argument fail.

Incidently, I was at a conference last week with someone from your country, and he had little nice to say about your NIH. So, yes, without actually having to live there, I have to go by what people from your country tell me, and I hear more bad than good about NIH. I could probably find a lot of NIH Horror stories I could link to,as well, but I'm trying to keep this thread on topic.

I do also recall that the riot that they attacked Charles and Camilla's car over was about budget cuts to scholarships and such, or at least that's how it was reported.

Also, incidently, I'm a registered Republican and have voted for the GOP Candidate in every election since 1980. I won't this time because I hate Romney. Unfortunately, the loud, crazy right wing has so dominated this party that its' something I barely recognize anymore. So maybe you need to educate yourself on America before you go about whining about how I'm misjudging your country.

Now, back to the topic. How is it perfectly okay to hand over millions of people in Hong Kong to a communist regime that slaughters its own people for transplant organs, but you are going to fight to the death over some fuckin' sheep.

That seems like the actions of 1) A person who has his priorities screwed up or, 2) A cowardly bully.

Lol! You really are one ignorant individual. Misjudging your country? Introducing meaningless rhetoric again to divert from your ignorance, eh! Why not invent something else I never said just as icing on the cake.

Yet again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of facts! I really do suggest that you go read up on the history of Hong Kong before you embarrass yourself further. The handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese was wrapped up in how we obtained sovereignty in the area. Some by treaty and other by the terms of a 99 year lease. The lease expired in 1997.

I realise that this thread is nothing more than you wishing to vent your dislike of the British, so why not just come out with it, rather than attempting to use situations you know little about. So, back to the topic. In YOUR opinion the Falklands war was stupid. Fine. You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but expect to be pulled up when you start introducing empty rhetoric and make believe instead of cold hard facts.

How strange that Joey compares the handover of Hong Kong to the conflict over the Falklands. That's some breathtakingly dumb shit. I'm glad you have so much patience with my historically challenged fellow Americans.

Trust me California Girl, lots of non-Americans are historically challenged as well.

 

[Colin]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjCoNMv6kvI]Insight into life on the Falklands 06.02.12 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Toro]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

 

[Colin]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

Don't knock it. He's the best entertainment I've had this week!

 

[California Girl]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

Don't knock it. He's the best entertainment I've had this week!

You need to get out more. Next time I'm in the 'hood, I'll buy you lunch.

 

[JoeB131]

Lol! You really are one ignorant individual. Misjudging your country? Introducing meaningless rhetoric again to divert from your ignorance, eh! Why not invent something else I never said just as icing on the cake.

Yet again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of facts! I really do suggest that you go read up on the history of Hong Kong before you embarrass yourself further. The handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese was wrapped up in how we obtained sovereignty in the area. Some by treaty and other by the terms of a 99 year lease. The lease expired in 1997.

I realise that this thread is nothing more than you wishing to vent your dislike of the British, so why not just come out with it, rather than attempting to use situations you know little about. So, back to the topic. In YOUR opinion the Falklands war was stupid. Fine. You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but expect to be pulled up when you start introducing empty rhetoric and make believe instead of cold hard facts.

I'm going to hit a couple issues here... and then I think I'm done with this tread.

First, it's not about hating the british. There's a lot of things about the UK I love. I love Pink Floyd (see my Avi), Monty Python, Doctor Who. But even if you like something, you still speak out when they do something immoral or stupid. This applies to my brother when he blurts our racist nonsense at family gatherings (which he's done increasingly since Obama became President, BTW) or the UK when they fight a war over sheep because they've found a country they can still beat up.

In the case of HOng Kong, legal nicities aside, you all left those people to their fate. Oh, you worked out some agreement of "Two Systems", which just means they get a little autonomy until Beijing gets tired of it. Why? Because China has a nice big Army and can fight back. Argentina had a few obsolete ships... meh, we can take them.

Bullies are often cowards.

 

[JoeB131]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

Still stalking me, Homo?

 

[California Girl]

Lol! You really are one ignorant individual. Misjudging your country? Introducing meaningless rhetoric again to divert from your ignorance, eh! Why not invent something else I never said just as icing on the cake.

Yet again you demonstrate your sheer ignorance of facts! I really do suggest that you go read up on the history of Hong Kong before you embarrass yourself further. The handover of Hong Kong to the Chinese was wrapped up in how we obtained sovereignty in the area. Some by treaty and other by the terms of a 99 year lease. The lease expired in 1997.

I realise that this thread is nothing more than you wishing to vent your dislike of the British, so why not just come out with it, rather than attempting to use situations you know little about. So, back to the topic. In YOUR opinion the Falklands war was stupid. Fine. You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but expect to be pulled up when you start introducing empty rhetoric and make believe instead of cold hard facts.

I'm going to hit a couple issues here... and then I think I'm done with this tread.

First, it's not about hating the british. There's a lot of things about the UK I love. I love Pink Floyd (see my Avi), Monty Python, Doctor Who. But even if you like something, you still speak out when they do something immoral or stupid. This applies to my brother when he blurts our racist nonsense at family gatherings (which he's done increasingly since Obama became President, BTW) or the UK when they fight a war over sheep because they've found a country they can still beat up.

In the case of HOng Kong, legal nicities aside, you all left those people to their fate. Oh, you worked out some agreement of "Two Systems", which just means they get a little autonomy until Beijing gets tired of it. Why? Because China has a nice big Army and can fight back. Argentina had a few obsolete ships... meh, we can take them.

Bullies are often cowards.

The Brits are not cowards. Hong Kong... not a 'legal nicity'..... it was a contractual obligation. You sign a lease, you have to move out at the end of that lease. You don't say 'we like the place so we're gonna keep it'. Idiot.

Those 'sheep' that you keep bleating about... they were British sheep on British territory. Now, as Colin has explained.... Britain was not negotiating to hand over the islands.... they were following UN protocol.... no solution was found. Argentina then tried to take the islands by force... and they got their ass kicked. A selfish idiot might see the lives lost as wasted, but Britain - and the British - don't.

Lesson for the rest of the world.... Don't mess with the Brits. They will kick your ass.

On the bright side, you should be done with this thread.... because you've had your ass thoroughly kicked... by both the US and the UK.... smarter people have left their bootprints on your cyber butt.

 

[JoeB131]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina...This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate

So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The Brits are not cowards. Hong Kong... not a 'legal nicity'..... it was a contractual obligation. You sign a lease, you have to move out at the end of that lease. You don't say 'we like the place so we're gonna keep it'. Idiot.

Except that lease was with the Manchu government, not the Communists.

Those 'sheep' that you keep bleating about... they were British sheep on British territory. Now, as Colin has explained.... Britain was not negotiating to hand over the islands.... they were following UN protocol.... no solution was found. Argentina then tried to take the islands by force... and they got their ass kicked. A selfish idiot might see the lives lost as wasted, but Britain - and the British - don't.

I'm sure they don't. Doesn't take away from the fact they'd have handed those Islands over in a heartbeat if there was an economic gain and they were seriously considering doing it in the 1970's.

Lesson for the rest of the world.... Don't mess with the Brits. They will kick your ass.

Unless they can actually fight back...

On the bright side, you should be done with this thread.... because you've had your ass thoroughly kicked... by both the US and the UK.... smarter people have left their bootprints on your cyber butt.

Actually, all I saw were some chest-beating Chickenhawks telling us how tough they are by sending other people off to fight. That didn't impress me when I wore a uniform and it doesn't impress me now.

 

[California Girl]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina...This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate

So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

No, it means they gave the islanders the democratic right to determine their own future. The islanders voted to remain under Britain. Or do you not understand what 'self-determination' means? Twit.

The British claim on the islands dates from the 1600s.... they, and the French, both had interests on the islands. As far as I am aware, 1600s predates the 1800s.

 

[JoeB131]

Just to point out that some people are misinformed..

Waiting times for Cancer.. .

BBC News - NHS cancer diagnosis waiting times down, figures show

Oh, wait, they got it down to three months...

British were negotiating to give the Falklands back..

Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whilst maintaining the British claim for sovereignty, the British Government considered transfer of sovereignty worthy of improved relations with Argentina...This led to the British Government maintaining a position that the right to self-determination of the Islanders was paramount. In return, Argentina did not recognise the rights of the Islanders and so negotiations on the sovereignty issue effectively remained at a stalemate

So, gosh, you mean they were willing to sell out the sheepherders? Really.

Incidently, the notion that Argentina never owned the Malvinas is also disputable. The United Provinces held soverignty over the Islands in 1829 until the British took them in 1833.

No, it means they gave the islanders the democratic right to determine their own future. The islanders voted to remain under Britain. Or do you not understand what 'self-determination' means? Twit.

It means exactly what I said it means. There was a scenario where they were negotiating in good faith to turn the Islands over... largely over international pressure. (Kind of tough, half the UN being former British colonies who don't like them all that much).

Now, politically that became impossible, leading to a war that was really up their in the annals of human stupidity... but hey, as long as the rich can order the poor to go off and die and the poor keep putting up with it, that's what you are going to get.

 

[Toro]

An Overview of British History, Society and Fiscal Affairs by JoeAmpad

- It takes six months to get treated for cancer in the UK

- The British government "gave" Hong Kong to the Chinese, a communist regime which harvests the organs of its citizens for sale

- The UK was negotiating to give away the Falklands to Argentina

- Britain is broke. That's why there were riots.

- The British don't like the NIH.

Still stalking me, Homo?

Just pointing out your many errors.

And is "Homo" supposed to be an insult? That's so 20th century. A bigot AND a homophobe, are we?