Scott Walker: I Took On Unions, I Can Take On ISIS

[Papageorgio]

Also you have to remember that a lot of kids who are politically active now who may not belong to a union themselves have mothers and fathers living on union pensions...you know; the ones that Walker wants to eliminate. It's going to be an impossible sell regardless of union membership.

If your a kid and your parents are retiring in their 50's on union pensions, something is seriously fucked up with that.

Come on Joe...I said "politicallly active"meaning over 18 and voting. I also never said that people are retiring in their 50's although I can see if you start at a job when you're 18, work for 35-40 years, I don't see what would be so grotesque about retiring after 3-4 decades on the job.

There are people retiring from the MBTA in their 40's! More than 1/3 of retirees retired younger than 55, and there are over 1,000 who retired before age 50. (At least one is getting $64,800/year after retiring at 46!) It's not sustainable.

Exactly Jar, look at Oregon's public employees PERS accounts. There are 1,106 with pensions paying out over $100,000.00 a year. Some at over 300% or more than their salaries while they were working.

Top 2013 Oregon PERS beneficiaries - The Oregonian

 

[JoeB131]

You do not have to do business with Walmart BUT YOU must subsidize with food stamp and other assistance the Walmart work force so the Walton family can gather more billions...your tax money goes in the profits go up..how does that happen...nobody knows

again, going into crazy land.

Here's the real problem. Your beloved unions do not give a fuck about the WalMart worker other than hoping to squeeze $2.00 an hour wages out of him for a $1.00 raise.

Now, I'm pro-union, but I htink the way most unions are run sucks.

 

[JoeB131]

You can't seem to focus on what you feel are abuses of your tax money except to focus on workers and Unions ...all else is A OK...in Florida where I live we have Rick Scott one of your anti Union heroes ...problem is he looted the Medicare program [made $300 million] but he is hell on workers LOL so you would support him...

Governor Rick Scott went after the Correctional worker Union..slashed budgets ...he privatized ....end result State being sued investigated...people being boiled alive in prison...murders ..corruption ...

Guy, most people are pretty cool with people in prisons being abused. Seriously, fuck those guys.

No, I don't support Rick Scott. But frankly, all you guys want to offer is giving crack-whores bags of my money to make more welfare babies, that's not a good deal for me, either.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, did you watch the interview of Walker on FOX yesterday?

This guy will change his position on ANYTHING. His change on immigration was amazing. . Chris Wallace tied him up in knots. Had Walker talking about all the praying and pleading with God to tell him if he should run fro Pres or not.

Sounded like a crazy Mormon or something. But he's a Baptist. Watch that interview if you can and then see if you still think you might vote for him.

No way for me and I can't figure out why he was elected in the first place.

Yeah, again, I vote on results, not how well they do on TV shows. I have property in Wisconsin. Judging by what I see when I visit that state, he's doing an okay job.

 

[JoeB131]

DId you actually call Rubio formidable and do so with a straight face? Remind me never to play poker with you if you can say that without smirking.

I disagree. Again. My theory of politics. 45% of us vote for Republicans, 45% of us vote for democrats, 10% vote for who they'd like to go have a beer with. Rubio and Walker win the beer primary over Hillary. Hands down.

Bush will be on the ballot in 2016 much like Obama was "on the ballot" in 2014. It will be that way until there is another Republican President to wash away the poor taste of W. A lot of Republicans had a bad taste left in their mouths from Bush 41...that didn't seem to hurt W's campaign so much. As I recall he won both the nomination and the White House. I see your point but if the worst thing you can say about someone's heritage is that there are two former Presidents in it...I don't think that is such an albatross.

I'm not that hopeful. I would really like to think that the Bush Crime Family made such a muddle of things that they've put the GOP out of business for decades like Hoover did. But the fact that Jeb is the frontrunner seems to indicate otherwise.

I think what happened in 2000 was that Republicans were SOOO angry over the way Clinton acted that they forgot their anger at Bush-41. ANd Bush-41 was masterful at winning back hte people his dad pissed off.

 

[JoeB131]

That doesn't exactly foretell a wonderful end for Walker; now does it?

Uh, no. I think you missed my point on why we ran Quinn out on a rail last November... even Democrats.

Don't forget the other thing; an end to collectively bargain. The collective (being pretty much what the union is all about) being removed from the equation is more problematic for Walker than what you mentioned above.

Except "collective bargaining" isn't really a major concern. Frankly, we all like to think we are special. We all like to think we can negotiate a better deal for ourselves. A lot of workers see the unions as much an impediment as a help. It's how unions have kind of screwed themselves when they promote the mediocrity who has seniority.

 

[JoeB131]

You approve of thuggery, you even approve of threatening someone's CHILDREN. You said that, Joey, now OWN IT!

Ditchy, I have no problem with thuggery. It's only class warfare when we fight back.

Except you. You're smoking ditchweed with a truck stop hooker and thinking you have it made.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Guy, most people are pretty cool with people in prisons being abused. Seriously, fuck those guys.
.

You are talking about people like you who are entitled white assholes l...you say I sound crazy but its white conservatives like you who want to ditch the Constitution

This is the sum total of you and your political views..

"most people are pretty cool with people in prisons being abused"

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

You approve of thuggery, you even approve of threatening someone's CHILDREN. You said that, Joey, now OWN IT!

Ditchy, I have no problem with thuggery. It's only class warfare when we fight back.

Except you. You're smoking ditchweed with a truck stop hooker and thinking you have it made.

Fuck you Right wing Supremacist asshole

 

[JoeB131]

You are talking about people like you who are entitled white assholes l...you say I sound crazy but its white conservatives like you who want to ditch the Constitution

This is the sum total of you and your political views..

"most people are pretty cool with people in prisons being abused"

Guy, i'm just pointing out that if you want to run on the "Gee, those poor, poor prisoners", ask Mikey Dukakis how well that works out.

They're in prison. They are in prison because they did something terrible. People really WANT them to be punished.

 

[candycorn]

That doesn't exactly foretell a wonderful end for Walker; now does it?

Uh, no. I think you missed my point on why we ran Quinn out on a rail last November... even Democrats.

Don't forget the other thing; an end to collectively bargain. The collective (being pretty much what the union is all about) being removed from the equation is more problematic for Walker than what you mentioned above.

Except "collective bargaining" isn't really a major concern. Frankly, we all like to think we are special. We all like to think we can negotiate a better deal for ourselves. A lot of workers see the unions as much an impediment as a help. It's how unions have kind of screwed themselves when they promote the mediocrity who has seniority.

Most of the union folks I know would tell you that collective bargaining and the fruits of the threat of a nationwide strike or slow-down is the only weapon in the war-chest. If your drivers in Peoria don't like a deal, they go on strike. They may (or may not) get sympathy strikes from other companies refusing to handle the freight rotting on the docks but as far as Peoria goes, it's successful. The trucking company simply ignores Peoria.If the same union in Pittsburgh, Philly, Prescott, Pueblo, Pocatello, Pierre, Plymouth, Portsmouth, and St. Paul go on strike at the same time because they had single representation, the company is much more apt to listen to the union.

 

[candycorn]

DId you actually call Rubio formidable and do so with a straight face? Remind me never to play poker with you if you can say that without smirking.

I disagree. Again. My theory of politics. 45% of us vote for Republicans, 45% of us vote for democrats, 10% vote for who they'd like to go have a beer with. Rubio and Walker win the beer primary over Hillary. Hands down.

By that analysis, the mayor of Sacramento would win.

You really thought that most people would rather have a beer with Obama than Romney? I think you need a new barometer. I get that people vote for whom they like; I don't feel a whole lot of people like Obama. When you consider the candidates from 08....your analysis becomes more suspect.

Bush will be on the ballot in 2016 much like Obama was "on the ballot" in 2014. It will be that way until there is another Republican President to wash away the poor taste of W. A lot of Republicans had a bad taste left in their mouths from Bush 41...that didn't seem to hurt W's campaign so much. As I recall he won both the nomination and the White House. I see your point but if the worst thing you can say about someone's heritage is that there are two former Presidents in it...I don't think that is such an albatross.

I'm not that hopeful. I would really like to think that the Bush Crime Family made such a muddle of things that they've put the GOP out of business for decades like Hoover did. But the fact that Jeb is the frontrunner seems to indicate otherwise.

I think what happened in 2000 was that Republicans were SOOO angry over the way Clinton acted that they forgot their anger at Bush-41. ANd Bush-41 was masterful at winning back hte people his dad pissed off.

WTF?

Republicans are not angry over Obama?

 

[candycorn]

Also you have to remember that a lot of kids who are politically active now who may not belong to a union themselves have mothers and fathers living on union pensions...you know; the ones that Walker wants to eliminate. It's going to be an impossible sell regardless of union membership.

If your a kid and your parents are retiring in their 50's on union pensions, something is seriously fucked up with that.

Come on Joe...I said "politicallly active"meaning over 18 and voting. I also never said that people are retiring in their 50's although I can see if you start at a job when you're 18, work for 35-40 years, I don't see what would be so grotesque about retiring after 3-4 decades on the job.

There are people retiring from the MBTA in their 40's! More than 1/3 of retirees retired younger than 55, and there are over 1,000 who retired before age 50. (At least one is getting $64,800/year after retiring at 46!) It's not sustainable.

Just as aside...how long do you guys think you should have to work before you can retire?

Most often your examples are not the case and what isn't reported when you see something like that is that in most cases, the week-to-week pay is lower than the private sector and the are usually no bonuses paid to public employees. Yes, there are exceptions to that on the lower end of the skills spectrum (the guy picking up dead animals on the side of the road probably makes more than the guy delivering Pepsi--he should).

Again, this is a political discussion. If your candidate's single claim to fame is that he "fixed" the problem of people retiring after 25-35 years of service, that is going to win him a lot of votes in non-union states. In union states, the same claim to fame is going to hurt him. The electoral map is such that if you take the 2012 election as template, the GOP needs to swing 64 votes. The purple states of:

OH
WI
MN
IA
PA
VA
FL
NV
NM
NC

Will decide this election. The math tells us that the GOP needs 4 or 5 of them to flip. Many of them are union states. Joe correctly pointed out that there are not that many union households. I agree but those households with non-union employees (in many cases) have parents who benefited from union membership or have union sympathetic voters (Joe said he would like to have a union job). Are they going to vote for the guy whose soul accomplishment was to eradicate those jobs?

No.

 

[Darkwind]

Government workers don't build them either. They're contracted out to companies that know how to do that kind of thing.

Oh, you mean the government created jobs in the private sector.
I thought people like you said the government doesn't create jobs?
What happened? Wrong again eh? You should be getting used to that. Being wrong.

Now, that same company/contractor, doing work for a private entity is taking earned money, applying it to labor, which in turn spends it in the market...There is no negative growth in that system....This system will create jobs....eventually, the government system will put the contractor out of business.

Makes you wonder why Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon, GE, Northrup, etc... all continue to bid for government contracts...they should probably listen to you and stop...right?

Maybe you should learn to read. It is fundamental.

 

[Dot Com]

I don't think people are pining for the day when workers could be fired at will at any time

 

[candycorn]

Government workers don't build them either. They're contracted out to companies that know how to do that kind of thing.

Oh, you mean the government created jobs in the private sector.
I thought people like you said the government doesn't create jobs?
What happened? Wrong again eh? You should be getting used to that. Being wrong.

Now, that same company/contractor, doing work for a private entity is taking earned money, applying it to labor, which in turn spends it in the market...There is no negative growth in that system....This system will create jobs....eventually, the government system will put the contractor out of business.

Makes you wonder why Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon, GE, Northrup, etc... all continue to bid for government contracts...they should probably listen to you and stop...right?

Maybe you should learn to read. It is fundamental.

Not in your case apparently.

 

[candycorn]

I don't think people are pining for the day when workers could be fired at will at any time

It's what you'll get in Walker's world....

 

[JoeB131]

Most of the union folks I know would tell you that collective bargaining and the fruits of the threat of a nationwide strike or slow-down is the only weapon in the war-chest. If your drivers in Peoria don't like a deal, they go on strike. They may (or may not) get sympathy strikes from other companies refusing to handle the freight rotting on the docks but as far as Peoria goes, it's successful. The trucking company simply ignores Peoria.If the same union in Pittsburgh, Philly, Prescott, Pueblo, Pocatello, Pierre, Plymouth, Portsmouth, and St. Paul go on strike at the same time because they had single representation, the company is much more apt to listen to the union.

Yeah. here's the thing. Unions almost never go on strike anymore.

For most of us who don't belong to unions, there's not a lot of sympathy for people who get paid more and still want more. There's little or no sympathy for the ones who insist on it when the state is going bankrupt.

Again, back to Illinois. Rauner beat Quinn because Quinn rolled over for the unions.

Unions have a serious image problem, which is probably why Walker can get away with comparing them to ISIS.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't think people are pining for the day when workers could be fired at will at any time

No, they aren't. They also aren't pining to have their kids taught by a tenured teacher who is grossly incompetent but can't be fired.

So where's the happy medium. YOu can get fired at any time unless you belong to a union, in which case you can't be fired no matter how much you deserve it?

Now, I'll say it, most of the benefits we have today, we have because our grandfathers joined unions and went out there and struck for them. But the unions are not making a good case about why they are relevent today.

 

[JoeB131]

Just as aside...how long do you guys think you should have to work before you can retire?

Most often your examples are not the case and what isn't reported when you see something like that is that in most cases, the week-to-week pay is lower than the private sector and the are usually no bonuses paid to public employees. Yes, there are exceptions to that on the lower end of the skills spectrum (the guy picking up dead animals on the side of the road probably makes more than the guy delivering Pepsi--he should).

Again, this is a political discussion. If your candidate's single claim to fame is that he "fixed" the problem of people retiring after 25-35 years of service, that is going to win him a lot of votes in non-union states. In union states, the same claim to fame is going to hurt him. The electoral map is such that if you take the 2012 election as template, the GOP needs to swing 64 votes. The purple states of:

Guy, here's the problem. Folks in Union states are pretty sick of that sort of shit, too. We are sick of the teacher who can't be fired when he shows up drunk to your kid's class and sleeps until fourth period We are tired of the fat truck driver who gets paid time and a half for sitting out in a snow plow on a sunny day.

And we are getting really sick of sales taxes and property taxes and income taxes to pay for it all.

Will decide this election. The math tells us that the GOP needs 4 or 5 of them to flip. Many of them are union states. Joe correctly pointed out that there are not that many union households. I agree but those households with non-union employees (in many cases) have parents who benefited from union membership or have union sympathetic voters (Joe said he would like to have a union job). Are they going to vote for the guy whose soul accomplishment was to eradicate those jobs?

But going through your list of states, they ALL have Republican governors right now... except for PA and VA.

Union bashing is not going to cost Walker in the General. There simply aren't enough union guys left who are up for grabs.